Grace, Love, Compassion, & Faith - It ain't easy!

[Valeska19]

Thought I would answer you 25 before I start a new thread.

I AM being selfish

Ayn Rand wrote a book called "The Virtue of Selfishness". It is often misunderstood. The premise is that in pursuing rational self interest we are most productive and most freed, as individuals. I don't think acting in a rational self interested way is bad. It's healthy.

Rational people don't mistreat their partners b/c they want their r's to work. Like good bosses don't mistreat their employees and people we marry want us to be happy (IF it's a healthy m).

So it's not mean or cruel, it's smart and healthy. But I'm hardly doing justice to her work. (If you get a chance it'll stretch your mind to read anything by her.)


I will check it out. The "people we marry want us to be happy" struck a chord with me. My wife was very confusing. She would say things that would seem positive, but there was alot of negative actions.


It feels wrong to not answer her. 

well, maybe it is wrong. Or maybe it's avoidant, or fear based...

Ahh.. bingo. I am avoiding her and it is fear-based. Because she can treat me in whatever way she feels in the moment, I allow myself to get on HER rollercoaster.

Not to mention, when I stick up for myself... well you have read my posts.

So because I do not feel strong enough to handle her and whatever she may throw at me.. I avoid her.

Because I don't really want to have that dynamic with her and am increasingly losing interest in trying to change it.. i avoid her.

Because I am scared of what she will say or do.. I avoid her.

It feels wrong to not try and change her negative feelings.

this ^^^ is something you need to work on. Stay in your sandbox and leave her to hers, you know? She has her stuff and you have yours.

I know and I'm working it. I do stay in my sandbox for the most part. It's hard and it gets really difficult when I FEEL like she is baiting me. I use the word feel because I don't that is what she is actually doing....

...she could just be expressing her feelings.. but since the dialogue feels the same, it "feels" like its baiting.

Because her reaction is not the most warm and fuzzy when I stop playing in her sandbox.

Do you think you want to "Fix" her or fix you? Or is it a rescue?

Yes I do. It started as a loving action. She had very low self esteem and I thought the world of her. I tried to getting her to see what I saw.. but over the yrs it warped into this crazy sense of "fixing".

I'm really try to just accept her for where she is.. but I'm disappointed in her.

I don't think she is a horrible person.. I'm just not sure we have the same core moral values.

It feels wrong to think of myself first.


For THIS R, putting yourself first is mandatory. She's gone. You are here.
And as unkind as it SOUNDS, putting ourselves first is our job in life.

It's not selfish in the negative sense, b/c we want happiness and we want to share love and maintain our r's. So we won't mistreat people, OR let them mistreat us

and that is ALSO putting ourselves first as well -to keep them in our lives...make sense?

It makes sense. I don't believe I am mistreating her and I'm trying to stop all mistreatment by her... but it's hard. It's hard to stick up for myself knowing she most likely won't respect it.

DBing has become such a way of life for me... it's hard accepting that not all people DB i guess.

It feels wrong to do an action knowing that she will be "hurt" and "fearful".
It feels wrong to cut her out of my life.

you have to let go of trying to control how SHE feels. That's her job, not yours.

Yep got it. Again really good at it until she talks to me and tells me how she feels. I validate it, but she says so many different things to get the same response from me. It's alot of retraining.

It feels wrong because I care 1000 times more about her than myself.  I always have.    Me being selfless was a complaint of hers.

How can you care 1000 times more about anyone (other than your child perhaps) than yourself? And why would it be someone who has cut you out of her life?

Do you think your head is in the right place waiting for your heart to catch up, OR
do you literally believe you are less valuable than she is?

I think my head is in the right place waiting for my heart to catch up. I'm intellectually "there" in alot of ways.. but my heart is being stubborn.

As long as she is an idol in my life, I will have expectations she can't meet.. Therefore never accepting her in her current journey.

is she really still an idol to you,
or
do you simply continue to hope for more from her, which is "threatening" your well being by setting yourself up for getting hurt again?

10 months ago.. I would have said idol.. now it is the latter. I don't necessary hope for us to get back together but I do hope she will be different.

I hope that those rare instances become the norm... and it hurts every time. Every time I wait for the other shoe to drop...

..so going dark means.. no shoes.. period.. until I can get to a place where I can still want her to heal and be better, but w/o the disappointment.

This separation has been hard.. Emotionally and financially.  If I was angry why only go for the health insurance? why not her 401k? Why not spousal support?


hmm, who said you are angry?

She does. I don't feel I am. I get angry and I freely admit that (to myself and her) but I work very hard at making sure I don't act out of anger.

The only questions I had in the past, were about how you two got here. You wanted to move here and she gave up a job to come here, and then she made more money than you, and supported you for some amount of time, & now she's paying you some or giving half...(I don't know what you guys settled on).

But if I were your L, I'd argue that it's the risk she took moving here. And she left the r as well. That was also a risk.

Do you think you have a lot of anger at her still?
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No I don't really. When I speak of her.. I speak well of her..

I know you and I might have different views on if she abused me.. but I'm still get angry at her over it.

And I get angry that she walks in and out when she wants, says what she wants.....

but I also get angry at myself for allowing her or not setting boundaries or whatever...

So I change me, learn, and let go.


Re the text, in the context of her message to you, YES it'd be a joke. But in some situations I do think it's a reasonable response.

My point was that you do not need to have a specific reply, but I think it's basic to let them know you got the text. No more of an answer is needed to her, even if you had one.

Point taken. It's been a week since the text so lesson learned.

Hey, if ALL contact from her is painful, then tell her. Are you strong enough for that?

NO I'm not.. because I am afraid that it's locking the door forever...

...because saying that puts things in my ball court.. and I want her to change.

All I really want is to be treated by this new "w".. the one she is creating whilst working a 12 step program..

..but that's not going to happen so if I say

"hey w - all this contact is painful for me caz I can't tell if you actually care about me. If you really want to hear what I am doing or how I am. If you ask how I was.. and I said sh!tty that you would be there for me"

She would stop talking to me because she has made it clear in both actions and words that she wants me out of her life....

.... all the above is just echos from out relationship.

So I can't say it because I'm not ok with the outcome.

keep me posted. And though you see me as putting out the tough questions (I concede that)

I hope you recall that I was among your first posters, and have always believed and seen the best in you.

I have not forgotten and I appreciate you so much!

((( )))