MC says to call it quits

[Accuray]

A good few days -- the distancing is working, OR I'm just in an upswing. I've way toned down my enthusiasm and ceased virtually all pursuing behaviors, but I'm not going cold.

For instance, I haven't been reaching out to W at all during the day, but if she reaches out to me I'm happy and cheerful. Wednesday night I felt I was going a little too distant, so I gave W a call while I was driving home from work but kept it quick and topical. (drip feed, drip feed)

W is confused and uncomfortable, but I'm not showing any cracks in my demeanor. I'm giving the "I'm happy by myself, if you want to participate great, and if you don't I don't care!"

Last night W made a point of coming to bed early. She started going into the "what's wrong what's wrong" routine. I told her nothing, I've had a great week, talked about all the things that I'm doing that are good, no R talk. She said that I've been acting very distant. I asked her if she's felt expectations or pressure and she said no, so I asked her what the issue is? I'm happy, go with it. She then asked if I wanted to ML and apologized that it had been since last Friday. I said "sure" but didn't put too much into it, and it was pretty good, good turnaround from last time.

A couple disclaimers, I'm on a "low drive" cycle (my sex drive cycles up and down), and my W's mood has been pretty good the last few days. The test on maintaining my distancing will be when I go "high drive" and/or if W's mood deteriorates. If those two coincide it's maximum struggle and pain for me and will be hard to maintain the veneer of "happy".

I'm far from claiming any kind of victory, but I can say that the pursuer distancer chapters of "The Solo Partner" definitely have merit in my sitch and it will just be a function of my discipline how well I can apply them.

Accuray

[Cadet]

Sounds good Accuray.

[Accuray]

I think the real irony is that the level of intimacy will go back to what it was before the bomb because that's where things naturally stabilized last time.

Although W says things are so much better now because of what I've done / am doing, the reality is that she doesn't really want that -- the biggest change is that her perspective on the M is different. I guess she didn't feel valued or worthy before, maybe she does now, and that's all she needs -- that underlying knowledge but without necessarily ongoing demonstration.

Definitely interesting to look at what's happened in the rearview. Not so fun when you're in it.

Accuray

[Crazyville]

Do you have any concern that going back to what it was before will create the same potential for another EA by W?

[Accuray]

CV,

It is a risk I can't worry about because I can't live like that. That would lead to jealousy and controlling behavior and I can't do it. All three of the counselors I saw warned me that it's a real risk based on who my W is.

All I can tell you is that if it happens again I'm done and there is no second chance and W knows that. My attitude is that if that's what she wants she should go ahead and do it.

I don't think she will, but I didn't think she would before either. I'm not going to play defence.

Accuray

[Accuray]

Grrrr, got home from boys ski weekend with friends and W is in a bad mood. Walking on eggshells again. Maybe I overshot the distancing again and W is in withdrawal or maybe it has nothing to do with me (more likely).

My inclination is to avoid her when she is like this, but maybe I just need to show a little support and then do my own thing, like working on our taxes.

My preference would be to watch an episode of "The Walking Dead" and catch an early bedtime.

Not sure what show of support would be appropriate.

I have not been saying ILY or initiating hugs -- if she does I will reciprocate. Although she did some pursuing last week, she has not said ILY, hug or kiss outside of ML. No kisses during ML either, I've pretty much written kissing off.

Guidance? This is when things get tough, when W is in a mood. I'm not sure how best to navigate it.

Accuray

[greenblue90]

Accuray
I know you don't necessarily agree with my POV but here it goes just in case it does prove helpful.

I will use numbers to illustrate my point.

Your W for some reason can't or won't give you level 10 emotional support. She can give 5 at most.

On the other hand she claims she doesn't want or deserves anything more than a 7 from you.

Her actions towards you tell me she expects a 10 on your part.

Through your 180's you have stepped up to a 10. Your W stayed at a 5.

Lately in order to get her to reconsider her actions you yourself have dropped to a 5 too.

Your W retaliated by going to 2-3.

Her counterattack is working since you are already second guessing yourself.

You'll back off go back to 10, she'll go back to 5.

If she really wants to get vicious she'll threaten to go WAW again.

My recommendation is to hold on at 5. Five being kinda where you are now. Once she moves to seven go to six, and so on and so forth.

I think you need to make it clear that your love is reserved for those that can and are willing to reciprocate.

[Accuray]

Thanks Greenblue,

It was more like she was at 5 and I went to 4, then she briefly went to 6, I came up to 5, and then she went down to 3.

Staying at 5 seems to tell her "you're not worthy" which she internalizes and then withdraws. In your example above, I don't believe she'll go back up if I hold at 5. She'll convince herself it's all her fault, that she's making me miserable, is unworthy, and just won't try. That's her pattern.

That said, I'm going to experiment. I slid a little last night, I gave her a hug before dinner which she didn't really reciprocate. In your example above I will hang out here at 5.

Accuray

[greenblue90]

FWIW
Consider the fact that her unworthiness may be a form of manipulation. I was reading a blog where the poster said something along the lines of:

You complain about my behavior, which means you are unhappy with me, it saddens me that you are unhappy with me, how dare you make me sad!!

See how she verbally outmaneuvered him?

I get the impression your W pulls the same on you, and distracts you from the true issue at heart. (her behavior).

[Accuray]

Thanks Greenblue90,

You complain about my behavior, which means you are unhappy with me, it saddens me that you are unhappy with me, how dare you make me sad!!

1) I don't complain about her behavior
2) She doesn't say "how dare you make me sad", nor does she act like that

I think the dynamic you're talking about is manipulation to your point. Manipulation like that could be intentional or unintentional, but the point of it would be to get certain behavior from me to make W feel the way she wants to feel.

I don't *think* that's what's going on here. The DB coach and the MC/IC's that have gotten involved with the sitch don't feel that's the case, and from my reading and analysis, I don't think that's it either, but I could be too close to it to see it, and I will give it due consideration.

I do acknowledge that W's impression of her own needs doesn't match with her behavior. She thinks she's extremely low maintenance and needs very little. She claims that all she needs is for the people around her to be "ok" and then she's ok. That's who she thinks she is, a caretaker or a peacemaker type. That type doesn't have EA's though, do they? An EA is about your own needs, it's inherently a selfish thing to do.

That's a challenge here -- if you don't acknowledge and/or suppress your own needs (actively or unknowingly), then feel badly as a result of your needs not being met, those who love you have no chance to succeed.

My W's father went through a bankruptcy. At the time he was defaulting on several mortgages. I told him that he really should talk to a lawyer to navigate the best way forward, that he may be able to structure a settlement to come out of it with some assets intact. He claimed he didn't have the money to talk to a lawyer. I told him I would pay for the lawyer, just go talk to one. He never did, he told me he knew exactly what would happen, how the situation would play out, etc. He said he had researched it and he knew best.

It occurred to me that my W is acting the same way -- our marriage came to crisis. I took the initiative to consult specialists, offered to work with W on whatever she needed, have her go to IC herself, etc. but she told me no, she's accepted her position, she understands everything that's going on and why, and she doesn't need any help, or the professionals can't help her anyway. It's kind of a striking parallel.

Quick journal:

W had to pick up D13 last night after dinner, so I did the dishes. W came home and apologized that I was doing the dishes. I told her "I don't mind at all". She said "no, you don't like doing the dishes, you shouldn't have to do them" I told her they need to get done, neither of us should *have* to do them, and I don't mind. It drives me crazy when I'm contributing around the house, listening to music and enjoying myself and she comes in and apologizes, then refuses to accept that I don't mind. What is that?

Later last night she told me she was talking to one of the wives who went on the ski trip with us. The woman was saying how much fun she had and that next year she wants to do it again and rent a big house where we can all stay together. My W told her that I wouldn't be up for that because I like to relax at the end of the day. I like to ski with everyone, but afterwards like to decompress. There may be some truth to that, but I wouldn't have said that to the other woman -- it makes me come across as anti-social. In reality I'd be happy to share a house with them next year, I just wouldn't want to bring W if she's going to have a bad attitude again. I told W I would rent a house with them and she said "I thought you didn't want to go again next year" Did she miss the point? I would LOVE to go skiing for school vacation week again next year, but not if she's going to be like "3 days of rain" the whole time. I just told her we can go somewhere warm instead.

I recently replaced my 13 year old car with a newer 5 year old car. She said the same woman commented that she was surprised I bought the car I did. W told her that "I'm always buying cars"

When W told me that this morning, I told her I was sorry that she feels that way. She told me she was only kidding and went into the "what's wrong what's wrong" routine and just kept staring at me. I told her nothing is wrong, that I gave her the opportunity to weigh in on getting a new car and she agreed it was time. She said she was just kidding and that it was time to get a new car.

I felt like she was making me out to be an ass with this mutual friend and I didn't like it.

She then said "well can I get a hug before I go to work?" I hugged her and she kissed me. (A little pursuing maybe?)

I'm going to keep it at a 5. I don't know why there's so much drama here. I feel like there shouldn't be.

Accuray