So are you not going to tell me why you think he's depressed? Are you not going to tell me how I'm supposed to be able to find that out? You're not going to explain the steps? That's pretty mean.
Journaling here is not doing it for me. In fact, much of this stuff is in the past and has been beat to death already and I hate drudging it up yet again. It's killing my mojo. It's what I hated most about starting with a new counselor -- you had to revisit all the painful history and it immediately set a negative mood for the session. It's what I loved so much about the idea behind SBT.
The problem is that I'm not getting your point. I'm not even sure you have one. For me, this has just been an exercise in frustration. Maybe everyone reading my posts is saying, "Oh, it's so obvious, she's just not getting it." I agree, I'm not.
I get the concept of being responsible for making my own happiness, but I also believe, and I think I've seen it posted here before, that someone else can contribute greatly to your unhappiness. I can be perfectly happy sitting outside with my eyes closed, my face in the sun, listening to the birds and the wind and the neighbor kids playing. But when my H walks up and pours a bucket of ice water on me because he decided I looked warm, it's hard to appreciate what "life" has to offer. And even though at that moment, H and I have "connected and engaged," it's not something I care to extend further.
It's unfortunate, then, that your belief in the salvation of my marriage is based on the fact that I keep posting here, because the frustration and lack of direction, the drudging up of history, the negative impact on my mood is making me want to stop, even earlier this week. I'm not sure that focusing on my happiness can incorporate saving my marriage, at least not if this is what it looks like.
CV if your H was depressed these would be some of the signs> sleep disturbances, weight gain/loss, loss of interest in things he used to enjoyr, irritability, Hopelessness, helplessness, thinking of death, poor concentration. Is he showing some of these?
I spent my entire M criticizing my W into becoming something else. Instead of just accepting her for who she is/was? Had I not done that maybe I wouldn't be here.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Sleep disturbances - family trait Irritability - only with me weight gain/loss - regained 30 lbs. 17 years ago that he had lost re: divorce from first wife
You mentioned your H should loose weight. Weight gain can be a sign of depression. You mention your H goes to sleep while watching movies, you say it's a family trait. So is depression. You say he is irritable only with you. You mention you don't spend a lot of time with him, so how do you know it's ONLY with you.
How do you know he doesn't have suicidal thoughts? Not all depressed people mention that. I certainly never did.
I don't KNOW that he has depression, but he has signs of depression. There may be more.
How would you find out? It will require talking with him. Spending time with him. Being with him in the presence of others.
Every time I bring up something that would require you to connect and engage or empathize with your H, you show resistance. You aren't ready, yet.
That's OK. Sometimes, to work through sadness, we cry. Just let it all out. Cry until you can't cry any more. In anger, it is usually strenuous exercise or venting, over and over and over again, until it's out of our system or we're worn out, physically.
Your H's shows of affection or love, through playful actions or words, you see as hurtful, frustrating, immature, etc. Were you ever receptive to these behaviours?
Can he change these behaviours? Sure he can. But like sex, where it may actually require you SHOWING him... telling him... taking his hands and moving them to where you want them or helping him understand what positions best sexually fulfil you... it will take the same in your emotional relationship with him.
It will take spending time with him through the good AND the bad, the easy AND the frustrating... to work with him and help him learn what works and what doesn't work for you, with healthy boundaries and supportive words and actions.
You aren't ready for that, yet.
That's OK. It takes time.
So here's the thing...
Here is your choice...
Work yourself out of your anger and frustration with your H by whatever means to get it out of your system...
or...
Use that anger and frustration to push through this stuck point and to motivate you to kick your H's butt so he truly understands that he needs to make a choice to re-commit and step up and be a husband you want to stay with.
But... IF he is depressed... some methods of engagement won't work, or the results would be different than expected and confuse the results.
So again, we're stuck in the circle cycle...
Until you are ready to step through and engage your H... well...
He should lose weight because he had a heart attack several years ago and the doctor said he should. He says he wants to because he's uncomfortable. He isn't losing the weight because he likes to eat cr@p and lots of it, and then sit on his butt and watch tv. He's had the sleep issues for as long as I've known him, even when we were first married and he was blissfully happy. It's not something I would attribute to depression. Though I don't hang out with him for anything more than I have to, I do spend time with him because of son's activities, and I see him interact with other people then. Plus, we have mutual friends that I have intimate relationships with, and they would be perfectly comfortable asking me, "why has your H been so irritable lately?" Also, I live with him and S. If suicidal thoughts are something he wouldn't necessarily share with me, how would I possibly know? Hand him a gun and see what he does with it? If depression is a family trait, what am I supposed to do about it?
Even if I find out that he has depression, then what??? I encourage him to wear his cpap. I shop and cook healthy food. He isn't receptive to other things, I can't see him going and getting a prescription because I determine he's depressed. Should that create an empathy in me that justifies my unsatisfying sex life? Why would I even put in the effort to find out if he's depressed?
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Can he change these behaviors? Sure he can. But like sex, where it may actually require you SHOWING him... telling him... taking his hands and moving them to where you want them or helping him understand what positions best sexually fulfil you... it will take the same in your emotional relationship with him.
You act as if I haven't already considered this and done this, for YEARS! When he doesn't internalize it for more than 24 hours, what's the point? This man has heard my comments about why I don't want to go out with him, and he has asked me, genuinely, to remind him of what those things are before we go out. Is it really that difficult to remember that I don't want him to help himself to food off of my plate? He doesn't do it to any of the other people we go out with. If you're telling me this is what is required of me to have a "happy, healthy" marriage, then I am not interested. I get better treatment from strangers.
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Every time I bring up something that would require you to connect and engage or empathize with your H, you show resistance. You aren't ready, yet.
What you call resistance, I call sharing my experience. I've been there, done that, and only a fool does the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Maybe it's not that I'm not ready, maybe it's just that I've already been there and it didn't work. You actually aren't instructing me to do anything, so there's nothing I'm resisting. I've already agreed to one day a week that he can choose the activity and I'll participate with the best attitude that I can. I've already agreed to engage with him, so I don't know what else you're talking about.
I think we've talked about this before. I'm angry when I bring up the past, because it's like reliving it. Otherwise, I just accept things the way they are. If I'm not beating my head against the wall trying to fix a marriage that seems unfixable, then I'm fine. Not thrilled with things, but at peace. I don't see it as any different than what I did with my mother. I accept where she is. I have a relationship with her that is not what I want, but what is. If she chooses to disown half the family, to not have a relationship with my s, to be angry all the time, that is her choice, regardless of whether it's right or wrong for me. I'm not willing to abide by her terms at the loss of myself in order to have a closer relationship with her, just like I'm not willing to with my H.
It think perhaps the problem is that your approach is too much like what I've experienced before. I can't go there again. I need an SBT type approach. More specific, less drudging up of the past, just a current solution that addresses the current problem based upon the current reality. Then I can keep focused on myself and my happiness without all this backtracking.
Some time ago there was significant discussion about what the LBS thought it would take for them to wake up to the fact that their M was about to end, short of actually having the bomb dropped on their head.
Common belief is that only when the bomb is dropped does the LBS finally wake up and realize what is happening and usually by that time, it is too late.
For me, I truly believe that if my W had sat me down and held my undivided attention long enough to make it crystal clear that she was considering abandoning the M, state her reasons for doing so and then said that the only way out was if we worked together on the M, then I would have acted.
Instead, what I got and most of the LBS's on the forum got was a smack upside the head with a 2x4 stating "I'm done and I want out, now!" There was no room for discussion and no chance to find a way to make it work.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I needed to have a come to Jesus meeting with my W. She needed to tell me in no uncertain terms what was going through her mind and what the end result would be if I didn't or we didn't take immediate action.
For me, that would have gotten my attention and I would have tried to work on salvaging the M.
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CV, forgive me for saying this but when I read your posts, there is so much anger and resentment (most of it seems entirely justifiable) that I wonder if there really is any hope for you to find a way to make things work. Or you are just too angry and hurt to ever want to make things work. I hope and wish that I am wrong, but I don't see it by what you write.
So, if things are truly as bad as they appear, shouldn't you maybe consider sitting your H down and telling him exactly where your head is at, that you really can't see spending another day M to him if he is unwilling to work on the M? That you have been unhappy for too long and that life is too short for you to have to single handedly carry the burden any longer? And then in as loving a way as possible, give him the ultimatum that unless you "both" worked on improving the R, things would move forward towards D?
Why continue to live in misery? If you don't see a way forward, then why prolong the pain?
Maybe it is time.......
BTW - I've invited another WAS to join in the discussion on your thread. Hopefully, she'll be along before too long and perhaps together you can find the solution you are looking for.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
2, I've thought that long ago myself. Part of me believes that H is still going to be shocked when I finally do leave. It's like knowing for months that someone is dying, but still being taken back when they do. I'm sorry you didn't get more warning. To the contrary, my talking about wanting a divorce has made me the villain to my in-laws, so I don't know if that works either.
There is much anger and resentment in my posts, because I'm talking about the past with my H. If I was writing about the day my S was born, I couldn't do it without crying. That doesn't mean it's in my conscious brain today. It doesn't mean that memory/feeling manifests every time I look at him. I am capable of living in the present and actually prefer to do so. That's why I keep pointing to SBT. That's why it appeals to me so much.
I keep searching because I need to know that I tried everything. What I do will impact my S for the rest of his life, as well as a bunch of other people. Trading one misery for another isn't any better. People like KD keep telling me it can be saved, so I listen. My H keeps telling me he wants to improve things, to work on our marriage. He tells me that quite often but I never actually see any action. If I ask him what he's doing, what I'm missing, he gets angry. He tells me what I need to do (ie. go to church with him) but doesn't address my issues. I'm willing to do what he wants if he would be willing to do what I want. He either isn't willing or isn't capable.
If my H would stop telling me that, I could wrap my head around it and plan a future without him, whether I'm still married or not. There would be no pain because I can accept what is, just not the dangling promise of what won't be. I don't plan on going anywhere until my s is grown anyway. Then I would just be happy getting a job that offered travel so I could get away. A friend of mine was offered a contracting job in Dubai, and she's been there for years. She only sees her H about once every couple months when he goes to visit her. I so envy her!!!
KD - Thanks for sharing that thread. I hadn't seen Sandi's response to the question I asked her and am glad you pointed it out.
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CV - take a look at the thread when you get a chance. The thing that stuck out most for me in Sandi's response is that she said she had to work on her "stuff" in order to get her M back on track. Remember, she was the WAS, just like you.
I think your H has some BIG problems. And they shouldn't be discarded or swept under the rug. However, "we" (i.e. all of us) have a role in our M and as such we also have a role in the demise of our M.
So, I think where KD was taking you was to the place where you can find the courage and will to work on your "stuff". In the DR book it talks about making changes. And when one partner changes, the M changes as a result.
Just something to think about.
PS If you H won't hug you, I will!!
(((((((Crazyville))))))))))
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
