How has "being dark" with him worked for you in the past? Does it seem that it's brought him back closer into the relationship, or has he maybe taken it as a sign that you don't really care, and it's sent him into the other direction?
Quote: I think he knows that without a shadow of a doubt I can be without him....to need him is a 180, to show gratefulness for what he's doing, is able to do is a 180.
When you do these 180's, what are some of the positive results that you have received?
JJ
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Well, I detected a little bravado in your reply, thats a good thing, keep it up..
Quote: H says that if I get it, like what I told him last friday..that I know he works hard, that I need to be more appreciative of him, that I need to be content with what he is. This is what he says I NEED TO GET, for this to work.
..&
Quote: Or maybe I'm totally wrong but shouldn't I just do what he asks me to?
You know what, maybe you should just stick to doing that, and I'm sure when I visit your thread a month from now, things will be just fine...Good luck with it.
Quote: I was so independant, he was afraid to ask me to marry him because I would turn him down.
Let me get this straight, you were more independant back then, and he was pursuing, wondering if you were too good for him?? Off the record, I'd get that Cindy back here in a hurry, she'd know just how to handle this guy.. Curious, did you always put him first back then? Would you say you were more "appreciative", "grateful" and "compassionate" towards him then versus how he maintains you aren't now? If you were, then scratch everything I've recommended to stem the tide, put YOUR needs on the backburner and just do those three things. On the other hand, if you weren't, then maybe its not really about doing anything more than being the person you were when he WAS attracted to you when things were going good. You can be strong, happy, confident, and independant within the context of a healthy R..
Well going dark on h has resulted in him turning around and initiating and it's just great until SOMETHING goes wrong, usually r talks then he's back in his cave.
This last time I went dark, he blew his top. I mean he was MAD!!! Came to the office so mad he was as red as a lobster. Since this last going dark episode, he's not initiated any contact; when I call him he's quick to try to end it, very short and huffy. When I asked to hang out this past Sunday to watch a movie he said come over whenever you want and when I attempted to say something like ok whatever like I was not going to come over he said well you just tell the boys to come home from their friends and then ya'll come over...I said oh, ok. I was at his place, made overtures to hug him but he said what for, I said cause I'm cold he said well get a blanket! Hmmm. He did cook us all dinner which was nice...even made a plate for me.
What now? My mc says that h has been rejected his whole life and now I've handed him another rejection by filing for d.
Trying to win him back while not validating him as a man, or allowing him feelings and even the selfishness of having only his feelings validated has caused him to shut down. (hey you know what he saved my last message on his answering machine where I apologized for not getting that he's a man with feelings, that he works so hard for his family and I'm ungrateful for that, I also said that I realize that my being ungrateful for what he does do has led me to focus on the negative in him, that I need to respect him by allowing him his me time....he actually has the message still there 3 days after I left it! Isn't that good?)
I mean my h has said he's an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 for coming back to the marriage (and this prior to mc).
Do you think going dark is the answer in this case?
Prior to the our last court hearing, h was the one that went dark. I only reinforced that by doing as he wished by not talking to him, not initiating convo when he picked up boys. He changed his mind mid-hearing from a NO to ok 90 days! He went dark after h said it was absolutely over, he didn't trust me not to file again, he had feelings for me but couldn't be with someone he could not trust, etc., so I helped end all contact.
This last time I went dark as a result of him asking us to leave his apartment in no uncertain terms. I was mad so didn't call him or try to see him when he picked up boys. That is what made him livid...I seemed to be negating his need for ME time by punishing him with no calls, or contact.
What exactly is the man thinking? Got any ideas on what my next tactic should be? I'm thinking my final move will be to dismiss the divorce even if my h continues to ride the fence. That way he will KNOW for sure I don't want the d and if d is what h wants he can file.
I'm so tired of not knowing what he wants at least by dismissing I can put forth what I want in no uncertain terms.
Quote: Trying to win him back while not validating him as a man, or allowing him feelings and even the selfishness of having only his feelings validated has caused him to shut down. (hey you know what he saved my last message on his answering machine where I apologized for not getting that he's a man with feelings, that he works so hard for his family and I'm ungrateful for that, I also said that I realize that my being ungrateful for what he does do has led me to focus on the negative in him, that I need to respect him by allowing him his me time....he actually has the message still there 3 days after I left it! Isn't that good?)
I think that this is BIG! It seems like what you said and did really stuck a chord with him. You pushed a "positive button". What are some more things like this that you could continue to do?
I really am not a big fan of "dark", unless situations are out of control, and contact does more harm than good. That's not really what "I" am seeing here. Keep in mind, too, that "giving space, and "going dark", are 2 different things. Dark really does seem to him like rejection, doesn't it?
Quote: and it's just great until SOMETHING goes wrong, usually r talks then he's back in his cave.
Yes, it seems like the R talks are definitely something that sends him running, isn't it? I know how tough it is to NOT have them for you, however, you might get a little farther ahead if you could keep delaying these for awhile. It's difficult, but it seems like he's just waiting for these talks, so not initiating would be a big 180 for you. Something to knock him off balance a bit, and maybe make HIM more likely to initiate?
Hang in there! We should be able to hit on something somewhere here soon to make some more changes!!
JJ
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Bravado, huh? More like freaking frustration!!! Not at you, you help me think things out. I'm just frustrated at how uncertain the situation is and how often h fluctuates. I meant nothing personal by my 'tone' of email ! No, really!
Quote: Curious, did you always put him first back then? Would you say you were more "appreciative", "grateful" and "compassionate" towards him then versus how he maintains you aren't now?
No I was not. I didn't give a fig for what he was going through, what he was doing. We lived together, had sex, but did not share anything else. I was busy with kids, my degree, Army training and did not pay any attention to him at all. If I didn't like something he did I told him to f*** off and once even moved out and turned off all the lights, water and electric in the house on him during a blizzard! Back then I was all about me and didn't give a fig about him. I was very tough and meaner than hell to everyone THEN, of course not now ! I'd sooner say f*** off than good morning back then.
I've definitely chilled out since my stint in the military but have yet to really validate him as a man. To understand that he has feelings too...feelings of rejection, fear, being unloveable, scared to be a dad....a lot of things that I do not take into consideration when making a decision.
This is what he's getting at....he wants to be needed.
I pray I'm not way off base...but then if I end up divorced then I guess I was off base, huh? Oh, well all I can do is give him space, be kind to him, consider his feelings, not pressure him with r talks, keep him informed about the boys' activities, and be FUN for God's sake! I'm sure to score some points that way, right?
Thanks for your help, Wiley. Don't leave me cause I do appreciate your input very much. You give me much to think about it with your replies.
I've had suspicions in the past and only once did it pan out. He admits to dating ow not anyone exclusively though.
He maintains right now that he is working on the marriage. Not sure what he means by working on or even if that means he's only seeing me.
Don't know for sure if there is ow and until I have absolute proof (like phone #s, receipts, phone messages, etc.) I won't bring it up nor get stressed about it (maybe a tad worried but not stressed).
I appreciate the warning and believe me that is an idea I have considered. My h has never been satisifed by me and what I do for him though...but I think it is more a reflection of dissatisfaction with himself. More like hurt me so he can feel better kind of thing?
I'll pray about it...cause scripture says God brings to light those things men hide in the dark. It's worked in the past to pray about my concerns with ow and God will reveal her if it is going on. I have no doubt about God doing that!
Sounds like you have things in perspective. That's good.
Never underestimate what these pod men are capable of. I don't have a clue who my H is anymore. Someone came oand took him and left a total nutbar in his place.
All you can do is keep trying and taking care of you until you guys get it together or you get fed up.
I never thought I would, but he was successful at pushing me over the edge.
I'm glad he did cause at least now I'm not fretting all the time at what I can do to make him love me again.
We all do what we gotta do. Your doing great. Rachael
Very interesting visit with mc today. We went through a run down of a typical conversation between h and I. MC said that h is very disrespectful when he talks to me. So I should from this point end the conversation when h begins to stall with info...ie., setting up dates with him, he wants me to almost beg to see him, never gives a time for when to come over, etc. So as soon as h begins to hedge with the info on meeting me I'm to end the conversation.
MC also recommended that I let h do the pursuing from this point on because then I can know for sure he wants to be with me.
MC says that h has been conditioned by me to know exactly how to get me to beg for anything from him. MC says it is not entirely my fault but that years of responding to h in the same old way have caused us to have this certain way of conversating.
Then my mc recommended that I dismiss the d. Soley to exonarate my conscience. This way h can be certain I did not want the d and it will be all his doing if it should go through. MC said that h needs to assume the responsibility for this since he is refusing to really work on the m.
Well I think today was very productive. So I have some goals:
1. Dismiss d 2. No more contacting h. 3. No pursuing. 4. End convos as soon as h becomes vague about dates or becomes disrespectful 5. REspond to h in love 6. I'm to be kind to h when around him 7. Do not get dragged into arguments with h 8. Validate his feelings 9. Practice concepts from Dr Laura's book "Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands" when with h
So now off to dbing with a vengence! H look out here I come!
Cindy, this really does sound like a great session you had today! I don't think there would be much that I would disagree with what your C is saying!
I would, however, have to add just one thing (just 'cuz that's the way I am!! )
Along with dismissing the D on paperwork, dismiss the D in your mind. Take the thoughts of it off the table, don't make it an option. Make a commitment to yourself that, no matter how you are "feeling" at any certain time, it is just a feeling.
That the things that you are doing are NOT to avoid a D, but you are doing them to make your relationship better.
You're a smart lady, you'll know what these things are as they come along.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
It seems like what you said and did really stuck a chord with him. You pushed a "positive button". What are some more things like this that you could continue to do?