Sorry to hear about your h cancelling. Must say, doesn't sound good given everything else.
Personally, I think you shouldn't expect any changes. If you decide to have him come home, do it because you can live with him the way he is. There are no guarantees anything will change because he comes home.
Well the h called last night in response to my message regarding the taxes disbursed via escrow.
THEN....I was dumb and asked him what happened to his counseling appointment. He replied that he (1) didn't feel like going, (2) didn't know what answering 'name 7 people that have influenced him' have to do with the state of our marriage now, (3) my little outburst Tuesday proved I was not changing (got upset cause he kicked us out of his apartment), (4) and because I was asking one of his friends to dance, said I told friend right in his face 'let's make h mad'.
When he launched into his tirade about why he didn't go to counseling, I didn't freak out but the defensive me kicked in for a bit. Then I realized the futility of trying to defend myself and just listened. I did at one point ask him to walk in my shoes and tell me how he'd feel if I had yelled at him to take the kids and go...he said he would have done just that leave without questioning me, would have assumed that I was needing my space (huh? this coming from h who gets upset if I don't come to his place whenever he asks!!!! Can't he see the duplicity here?).
he said he doesn't think that in a months time that this counseling will help us. Not sure if that is to mean that there is no point in continuing with this mc or if he wants to continue with another mc...or if there is no point we are getting d. What does this whole conversation MEAN!? But then I think of his invite to Florida...he was thinking all the above yet invites me to Florida? WTH!!!
Well, hell this mc was his idea! I'm only going with what he tells me...which ain't nothing. I'm backing way off now...no more calls, no more sleeping together! If he wants to go, he ain't going to have me standing in his way. And if he wants to stay, well he knows where I stand with that too.
Though as he says....we have a month till d. I'll just wait and see what happens or what he does. Maybe going dark will bring him out into the light, wanting to know if we are d'ing.
I think FF brings up a good point, he may come back and not change, that could very well happen. How that would set with you is the question. We can DB until the cows come home, but if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, you cannot make someone feel what they need to, to really commit to a loving R. It may just be that your H just doesn't have those deep feelings towards you anymore, or you can bet you bottom dollar things would be different. So, you can love him the way he is and accept how he treats you if he comes back, or, you decide that settling for that kind of R, isn't how you want to spend the rest of your life with someone.. The choice is yours. When you detach to the point where you let go of the need that he is your only choice in terms of a lifelong mate, I think you'll do what you really should do..and thats cut him loose for good and move on if your gut feel tells you he's not going to change the way you prefer him to.
For now, you continue to leave him alone, give him space, work on yourself, stop obsessing, get strong and confident and make yourself a happier person. Those are the kinds of things a WA will notice and perhaps dig a little deeper than they have been if they don't want to lose you...
Quote: So, you can love him the way he is and accept how he treats you if he comes back, or, you decide that settling for that kind of R, isn't how you want to spend the rest of your life with someone.. The choice is yours
Yet I'm not quite here:
Quote: When you detach to the point where you let go of the need that he is your only choice in terms of a lifelong mate, I think you'll do what you really should do..and thats cut him loose for good and move on if your gut feel tells you he's not going to change the way you prefer him to.
I still think that there is something I haven't tried yet, some way to talk to him, SOMETHING...I'm missing something that will turn this around! This thought is what I need to get rid of....the belief that his difficulties in committing to the r are all about me!!!! I'm almost there cause today I don't feel quite so concerned that he may not come back, a slight squeeze of the heart when I think of him not coming back is all I get now.
This is my plan:
Quote: continue to leave him alone, give him space, work on yourself, stop obsessing, get strong and confident and make yourself a happier person. Those are the kinds of things a WA will notice and perhaps dig a little deeper than they have been if they don't want to lose you...
Quote: I still think that there is something I haven't tried yet, some way to talk to him, SOMETHING...I'm missing something that will turn this around!
I remember this state very well. That feeling that there's something I was doing wrong. After my first failed reconciliation, I realized it wasn't me. Sure, I had problems, issues, things I needed to improve, but there had to be communication and support from my W. She expected perfection, and ran whenever things got tough. I looked at everything and decided I'd put forth the effort, I was willing to put forth more effort, it was up to her for anything else.
In some respects, I see you as being where I was in the first "reconciliation". I was trying hard, DB'ing how I thought was correct, and she was leaching off of me. Looking back, I was a doormat in that reconciliation, and let her run over me. That's what may be happening with you.
Our second reconciliation I felt good about. I laid down my rules, and followed up. I believe OM was gone for the only time in our marriage. So, when she decided to bail again, I knew it was her and not me.
I guess what I'm thinking is you've tried the soft approach, and it doesn't appear to be working. Perhaps the hard approach, some of which your C is suggesting in ending all sexual relations with your H, is the way to try now. BUT, the hard way requires you to be able to walk away, like I did.
Quote: Sure, I had problems, issues, things I needed to improve, but there had to be communication and support
My h provides no feedback or input...only angry outburst when things don't go his way. He continually can not feel or even try to understand where I'm coming from...he puts how he wants me to behave in place of what could be my feelings.
My friend said this which makes sense: He threw you and the kids out because HE felt like it. He asked y'all to Florida because HE thought it would be something HE would like. He didn't go to counseling because HE didn't like the counselor, the questions the counselor expected him to answer and it was uncomfortable (emotionally and mentally).... so HE didn't want to go. HE replied that if he walked in your shoes you would have thought and responded in the way HE wanted to you... in other words, he never actually mentally or emotionally put himself in your place, he just parroted what he wanted you to do and how he wanted you to behave.
It is uncomfortable to take any responsibility for anything in his life so he makes everything your fault because that makes HIM feel justified. (That is very important since he doesn't have God in his life, because without God and God's forgiveness and unconditional love Jeff feels rejection and condemnation for everything he does wrong or selfish.... therefore he MUST rationalize and justify himself. How better to do that than blame you for everything?)
The counselor (and I) told you that he is totally self absorbed.... so selfish, that there is nothing else in his life. Just Jeff and what Jeff wants. This whole divorce thing looming on the horizon is something he seems unable to control and he has tried various methods to keep control of it and nothing has worked so I think at this point he is choosing to simply ignore it.... Like asking you to Florida. I think he is hoping that you will just continue as you have for the last year, after the divorce. That is, jumping and running when he calls, taking his insults and leaving when he chooses to throw you out, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, even physical abuse at imes.... because everything has to be just as HE wants.
That's just my opinion for what it is worth....
Well I think she has h nailed. This is why I can't get through...and nothing I do makes a difference....cause he sees things HOW he wants them to be. I keep getting it wrong cause I don't act like he wants me to. Lack of communication is a definite problem here. I just can't connect.
Quote: Looking back, I was a doormat in that reconciliation, and let her run over me. That's what may be happening with you.
Yes, he's definitely placed his sole mark right on my back! He says whatever hateful thing comes into his mind (went so far as to critique my clothes and forbade me to wear a shirt I really like. Said it was too 70s and he hated it.). I mean why be rude to someone you are trying to reconnect with? It's like he doesn't care...I got to take it or leave it.
Quote: Perhaps the hard approach, some of which your C is suggesting in ending all sexual relations with your H, is the way to try now.
Yes, this is what needs to happen! I'm scared I won't be able to pull it off though....he says things that get me to believe I'm all wrong. I got to prepare for his attack.
Quote: BUT, the hard way requires you to be able to walk away, like I did.
This is what I'm afraid of...I've been with my h for half my life. And even though he treats me bad some times and is absent most of the time, I can't imagine life without him. It's a hard concept to get a hold of...that there is someone else or there could be someone else.
I'd always thought marriage was for life or at least till one of us killed the other !
I sure understand your frustration! Why would you want a man back that is not even treating you the way you want when your separated?
Are you guys have the typical distancer/pursuer R?
If you are the pursuer in the R then it's up to you to stop this cycle.
This man has to know you mean business because it sounds as though you don't really want him back unless he can be the H you want.
The ONLY way you MAY get that is to cut him off. No Contact. This makes the distancer very uncomfortable. They want to get back to staus quo.
Until your H knows you will NOT settle, there's probably no chance for him to change. Not if this is his natural behavior.
You've told him what you want right?
So...the ball is in his court, so leave it there. See if he picks it up, and what he does with it.
Cindy, you have to let him see you strong. Like he's never seen you before. Let him see that you are becoming a new person, not afraid of anything that may come your way.
You have gotten strong Cindy. I hear it in the way you say things now. You still have you, and you are the one person you can still rely on.
Look back in your R, and see that you CANNOT control this man in any way.
You asked if you just let him come back the way he is. I would say NO. It's apparent he's not changed and is not willing to do the work it will take to make it a happy M.
You don't want more of the same. None of us do. We all want healthier, happier, more loving relationships.
I guess I'mm saying all htese things to myself as well as you. I will in no way go back in to the M the way H is now. I'm just pluggin' along doing my own thing and detaching more and more. I feel better now than I have in two yrs!
It's because I've basically given up on him. I have nothing more to give or say. I told him it's up to him, and I'm not taking any lame attempt to reconcile. He's going to have to come clean about his A and be willing to look at it and talk about instead of avoiding it altogether like he has been.
That only serves to prove to me he's not ready to disclose what he feels led up to his part in the decision to participate in an action that seriously jepardized his M.
Hang in there girl, things will work out and you will be a beeter person no matter what happens-I promise! Rachael
My h is funny in that he won't fight for our m if he perceives that a d is what I want. He's said before he will not force me to come back to something I'm unhappy in. Well I told him .... why don't you make it something I will want to come back to then? He only said hmmm. What's that mean? I guess that this is him...take him or leave him.
He agrees with me that our 'reconciliation' will not fix what is wrong with us in a short while so I'm not understanding what he means by 'a month will not make any difference'.
On one hand he seems to care greatly about our m but then on the other hand...he throws it away in a minute. I don't get it.
I guess it is as you say...and everyone else says...I can only make me happy. He'll have to decide if our m is worth an effort on his part...at least more of one that he has been making. I really think the mc is just for show...as soon as Cindy messed up he bailed out...like hey that c ain't fixin' my w so what's the point?
I can't connect with someone that has no idea what he wants...the criteria for his idea of a good m changes daily! I'm dropping this rope!
I'm scared though cause this Sunday he comes to get the kids. Normally I would come over too and we'd hang out, I'd spend the night. I know he's going to get bent out of shape about the end to the sexual aspect of our r so what do I tell him? H, I'm sorry you feel as though my not sleeping with you is an indication of my unwillingness to fix the m. This is not the case and nor is it my intention to not try to fix the m. I do not want a d but satisfying sexual urges is not fixing what is wrong with us. I need more than sex from you to help us work this out. I need a firm commitment to mc, weekly calls to the kids and i asking how things are at school/work, the kids and I need affection from you (hugs, kisses goodbye, goodnight kisses, hand holding, causal touches, etc), one on one time conversations just about general topics, I need less of the rude comments/behavior and more compliments, I need to see you smile when you are with me and not looks so dagon disgusted.
So what else can I say? I'm ready to draw the line in the sand but need some help on how to present the conditions of surrender.
or at least till one of us killed the other 
!