My story, need help before I mess everything up.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi, I'm going to answer the questions as honestly as I can, I know some of what I may answer may be wrong but it is what I truly feel! Please bring out the baseball bat if need be

why did this upset and anger you so much? And if it was "visible" then it was not "contained".

I was upset and angry because I wasn't there to protect her I think, those emotions weren't at her but about the situation, she even said I would of punched him and I'm not a violent person!

Do not move back in without tools for improving the m, which you lack. You will repeat the mistakes of the past and separate again and lessen the chance of truly restoring your m.

What's different now? I don't see it.

How will your m be better and different than before?

Bit of background, neither of us had any understanding about making a marriage/relationship work, neither of us in the past had bought books or being to MC or had a serious talk about our M. The last 10 or so years our M had deteriated (sp) without either of us really noticing until everything came to a head 3 months ago with ILYBINILWY speech and I'm really struggling not to blame OM for that, I'm upset with her for not saying anything sooner if shes known about it for years, it was a complete shock and wake up call for me.

My knowledge of relationships has gone from virtually nothing to quite a lot (not enough but a lot more) in the last 3 months, I've read numerous websites and about 14 books trying to understand everything I can about relationships and how to heal a broken M. I feel now I have an instruction manual to a M, I know not to be defensive when talking with my W, try not to 'fix' anything she says, just validate and empathise and listen to her point of view. I know now that women have a built in natural fear of angry shouting men, I hardly ever shouted at her but was stroppy and stressed quite a lot.


this being upset/angry about OM's pass at her is more of this^^^. Stop it.


I understand and have learn't to look deeper at my emotions and understand why I'm angry and come up with solutions to what makes me angry,

meaning you have NOT looked into the deeper meanings behind your outbursts? Do so asap.

I'm able to put across why I'm upset/angry/hurt in a calm way. I'm closer to my kids then I've ever been before, I'm more patient, understanding and tolerant of their behaviour. I now know my W love languages (Quality time and words of affirmation) and my own, (Physical touch and words of affirmation).

good^^^


I now know that the last few years I've been negative and critical, unsupportive, neglected her, being withdrawn and just thought that paying the bills and putting food on the table was enough for a H.

have you OWNED this^^^ behavior? That means only discuss your behavior. it's the ONLY thing you are to work on and NOT measure what you think she is doing/working on/planning or thinking...



I've also realised an awful lot about myself, my FOO, how something as simple as having a dodgy knee has made me feel like I can't protect my family and that really matters to me and has affected my self esteem. Now of course some of those things I can make an instant change on, other may take some time practicing, I'm not by any means an expert on relationships or my W but I feel I've made a LOT of progress.

almost all of these ^^ things will take TIME & PRACTICE -new behaviors

There are many BIG downsides to moving back in too soon

and few, if ANY, downsides to taking it slowly and rebuilding FIRST...you are doing this backwards.

You both are reacting in fear, and not CHOOSING to change for real.

Agreed, I didn't move back in in the end, I mentioned it again on Sunday and she again said do what I want, it is fear that is making me want to move back in, I really am enjoying the peace and quiet of living on my own at the moment and not living in a house full of toys and bags of ironing everywhere. I admit that I'm hoping she'll start to wonder in the back of her mind why I haven't moved back in, this is a definite 180 for me because I know the old me would of moved back in straightaway.

work on yourself first. To show your anger AT HER OR TO HER for OM making a pass is not healthy.

And I don't know why she told you all of it or if it was to get that reaction.

I'm starting to wonder why as well, it's not the first time shes said something like that, a few months ago it was how she got followed by a van when she went to the shops. Maybe it was some kind of subconcious test? I don't know.

Neither behavior is mature.

Agreed, I really am trying to mature and catch up my emotional age to my actual age.

Good, brave insight^^^

You both need to work on yourselves and stay in your own sandboxes (for your own work and not stare at what the other is doing to match your efforst. That is score keeping and it hurts m's)

This is one of the most frustrating things at the moment, I am slogging my guts out to improve, for myself, for my kids and for her. She has not done anything,

You are not a mind reader. Do not attempt to assess or judge what she is doing or feeling. Knock that off now. It gets you nowhere. It IS scorekeeping AND Mindreading

I would just love to see a bit of effort from her, just read 1 of the many books I have - I haven't asked her too, I know she needs to do it by herself (another 180) or just her seeing an IC would make a massive difference - again not mentioned to her. I'm really not trying to keep a scorecard but I am frustrated but less frustrated than a month ago.

try to rebuild this m

with NEW ways of interacting.

Really trying to, I've decided that if shes not going to read the books and she may never do, then I need to teach her by leading by example and exhibiting healthier ways of problem solving.

demonstrate the new behaviors WITHOUT EXPECTATION OF RECIPROCITY..that is not "change" in you but a tactic to get a desired result from her.

See the diff?

What were your 180s?

Negative - Positive
Critical - Complimentary
Angry - Calm
Stressed - Understanding
unsupportive - Supportive
Perfectionism - Accepting
Quiet - Making conversations
Distant - Closer (kids and to her family)

They SOUND good but are mostly VAGUE...be as specific as YOU can be.

Specificity = believability. Don't generalize.


Miserable - Happier
Persueing - More laid back (remember we've not split up like other sitches on here - just having a breather)
Resentful - Understanding why I feel that way and sorting it out.
Bottling up feelings - talking calmly about my feelings
Being defensive - Taking ownership of my part of the problem



how are you taking ownership when you are measuring and staring at her sandbox and not staying focusses solely on yours?

Not listening - actually listening like a woman wants

Theres probably loads more that I can't think of at the moment but those are the main ones I think.

Did you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy books?

Read DR, started DB today.

I can tell my W is defrosting a bit and slowly she is starting to open up and is trying less to be independent, eg. We went shopping after kids parent evening and she allowed me to pay for the shopping which a month ago she wouldn't do. It just feels like she is trying less hard to prove she can be independent. 2 weeks ago I accidently said something about the future ( I've tried not to) and she said she can't see a future with me in it. Yesterday she mentioned that she wanted something fixed on our car before she drives it ( she hasn't passed her test yet) and that can only imply that she expects me to come back home and that is the general impression I'm getting now from other things she said rather than the opposite for the last months (although her behaviours previously implied different)

What I'm selfishly concerned about is I could become a model H for her but what about my needs? What about her truly taking responsibilty for the parts shes played and and where shes gone wrong rather than giving me lip service that she has.


the short answer is, "tough for you". The longer answer is that she thinks YOU have only given lip service and in her eyes, I suspect, she holds you mostly resposible for the problems leading to the demise of the m. I'm going to post a letter from a WAW to her LBS H, after he claimed to have made changes and wondered why she wasn't coming home or seeing him in a new light...

It will be at the end of this


I only want that so she can makes changes too, I don't want apologies for anything else in the past except a sincere meaningful apology for the EA and for her to really understand how much that has hurt me


You may never get this...or get it to your satisfaction. The issue is can you go on "from this day forward"? Those words are in the vows for a reason. Stop waiting for the grand apology. It's rare.

And if you have forgiven her or are trying to, then stop demanding it.

In her eyes you pushed her into the emotional arms of OM...imo

and what we can put in place to make sure it doesn't happen to either of us again.

the more you get closer and regain trust at both ends, the better you'll feel about that.

W/ new behaviors you both model, and TIME, you may get there. But frankly, the idea that someone really gets it

is a concept LBSers hold onto far too long...not helpful. Keeps YOU stuck.

Here is the letter I mentioned. This is for a wife sep for 6 months, not weeks...try hard to EMPATHIZE with your wife.


FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M.

I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
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