My story, need help before I mess everything up.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi, I've been thinking and looking at my situation and it's been 6 weeks since I moved out and while I've made a load of progress my W hasn't at all. It feels like we are just as distant if not slightly more. Been looking on the marriage builders forum and I get the feeling I need to be more pro active.

be more patient. This 6 weeks is a silly short time and how have you made "loads of progress"???

I'm almost definetly going to move back home very soon as I don't think it has helped in my goal to save the marriage it has allowed some space to sort out my issues and cope with my anger better. The other thing I've been considering is exposing the EA to her family and work mates, she needs to face the consequences of her actions which is one reason I want to move back Home but I'm not sure if exposing is the right thing to do or not? Please let me know your opinions!

it's wrong to expose to 3rd parties what your w MAY have done. It's NOT a spouse's job to

show her the consequences (that is punitive on your part--your anger rules you)

& will backfire big time on YOU. Read what I told badluck about this please.

I don't want to repeat it all. LIFE shows our spouses consequences of their choices, not a loving h.

And it ALWAYS makes the LBSer look vindictive and petty adn usually like he deserved it. Like he pushed his w into the arms of the OM

which is why I say it backfires...

Don't do it. It's your worst traits talking too loudly--see my post on BL's thread please.

[Grmpy_Mnky]

^^^ dude she is right. If you decide to be truly happy with your choices you absolutely, positvely need to chill-out and stop all the rhetoric of pain and malice. Work on you and let go of the nastiness. Go back and read the book again...

[Denton]

Hi, I'm going to answer the questions as honestly as I can, I know some of what I may answer may be wrong but it is what I truly feel! Please bring out the baseball bat if need be

why did this upset and anger you so much? And if it was "visible" then it was not "contained".

I was upset and angry because I wasn't there to protect her I think, those emotions weren't at her but about the situation, she even said I would of punched him and I'm not a violent person!

Do not move back in without tools for improving the m, which you lack. You will repeat the mistakes of the past and separate again and lessen the chance of truly restoring your m.

What's different now? I don't see it.

How will your m be better and different than before?

Bit of background, neither of us had any understanding about making a marriage/relationship work, neither of us in the past had bought books or being to MC or had a serious talk about our M. The last 10 or so years our M had deteriated (sp) without either of us really noticing until everything came to a head 3 months ago with ILYBINILWY speech and I'm really struggling not to blame OM for that, I'm upset with her for not saying anything sooner if shes known about it for years, it was a complete shock and wake up call for me.

My knowledge of relationships has gone from virtually nothing to quite a lot (not enough but a lot more) in the last 3 months, I've read numerous websites and about 14 books trying to understand everything I can about relationships and how to heal a broken M. I feel now I have an instruction manual to a M, I know not to be defensive when talking with my W, try not to 'fix' anything she says, just validate and empathise and listen to her point of view. I know now that women have a built in natural fear of angry shouting men, I hardly ever shouted at her but was stroppy and stressed quite a lot. I understand and have learn't to look deeper at my emotions and understand why I'm angry and come up with solutions to what makes me angry, I'm able to put across why I'm upset/angry/hurt in a calm way. I'm closer to my kids then I've ever been before, I'm more patient, understanding and tolerant of their behaviour. I now know my W love languages (Quality time and words of affirmation) and my own, (Physical touch and words of affirmation). I now know that the last few years I've been negative and critical, unsupportive, neglected her, being withdrawn and just thought that paying the bills and putting food on the table was enough for a H.I've also realised an awful lot about myself, my FOO, how something as simple as having a dodgy knee has made me feel like I can't protect my family and that really matters to me and has affected my self esteem. Now of course some of those things I can make an instant change on, other may take some time practicing, I'm not by any means an expert on relationships or my W but I feel I've made a LOT of progress.

There are many BIG downsides to moving back in too soon

and few, if ANY, downsides to taking it slowly and rebuilding FIRST...you are doing this backwards.

You both are reacting in fear, and not CHOOSING to change for real.

Agreed, I didn't move back in in the end, I mentioned it again on Sunday and she again said do what I want, it is fear that is making me want to move back in, I really am enjoying the peace and quiet of living on my own at the moment and not living in a house full of toys and bags of ironing everywhere. I admit that I'm hoping she'll start to wonder in the back of her mind why I haven't moved back in, this is a definite 180 for me because I know the old me would of moved back in straightaway.

work on yourself first. To show your anger AT HER OR TO HER for OM making a pass is not healthy.

And I don't know why she told you all of it or if it was to get that reaction.

I'm starting to wonder why as well, it's not the first time shes said something like that, a few months ago it was how she got followed by a van when she went to the shops. Maybe it was some kind of subconcious test? I don't know.

Neither behavior is mature.

Agreed, I really am trying to mature and catch up my emotional age to my actual age.

You both need to work on yourselves and stay in your own sandboxes (for your own work and not stare at what the other is doing to match your efforst. That is score keeping and it hurts m's)

This is one of the most frustrating things at the moment, I am slogging my guts out to improve, for myself, for my kids and for her. She has not done anything, I would just love to see a bit of effort from her, just read 1 of the many books I have - I haven't asked her too, I know she needs to do it by herself (another 180) or just her seeing an IC would make a massive difference - again not mentioned to her. I'm really not trying to keep a scorecard but I am frustrated but less frustrated than a month ago.

try to rebuild this m

with NEW ways of interacting.

Really trying to, I've decided that if shes not going to read the books and she may never do, then I need to teach her by leading by example and exhibiting healthier ways of problem solving.

What were your 180s?

Negative - Positive
Critical - Complimentary
Angry - Calm
Stressed - Understanding
unsupportive - Supportive
Perfectionism - Accepting
Quiet - Making conversations
Distant - Closer (kids and to her family)
Miserable - Happier
Persueing - More laid back (remember we've not split up like other sitches on here - just having a breather)
Resentful - Understanding why I feel that way and sorting it out.
Bottling up feelings - talking calmly about my feelings
Being defensive - Taking ownership of my part of the problem
Not listening - actually listening like a woman wants

Theres probably loads more that I can't think of at the moment but those are the main ones I think.

Did you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy books?

Read DR, started DB today.

I can tell my W is defrosting a bit and slowly she is starting to open up and is trying less to be independent, eg. We went shopping after kids parent evening and she allowed me to pay for the shopping which a month ago she wouldn't do. It just feels like she is trying less hard to prove she can be independent. 2 weeks ago I accidently said something about the future ( I've tried not to) and she said she can't see a future with me in it. Yesterday she mentioned that she wanted something fixed on our car before she drives it ( she hasn't passed her test yet) and that can only imply that she expects me to come back home and that is the general impression I'm getting now from other things she said rather than the opposite for the last months (although her behaviours previously implied different)

What I'm selfishly concerned about is I could become a model H for her but what about my needs? What about her truly taking responsibilty for the parts shes played and and where shes gone wrong rather than giving me lip service that she has. I only want that so she can makes changes too, I don't want apologies for anything else in the past except a sincere meaningful apology for the EA and for her to really understand how much that has hurt me and what we can put in place to make sure it doesn't happen to either of us again.

[Denton]

be more patient. This 6 weeks is a silly short time and how have you made "loads of progress"???

See my other post for how I feel I've made loads of progress, I truly don't know if I have or if I have just scratched the surface but it feels like I've learnt a lot.

[quote=25yearsmlc]
it's wrong to expose to 3rd parties what your w MAY have done. It's NOT a spouse's job to
show her the consequences (that is punitive on your part--your anger rules you
& will backfire big time on YOU. Read what I told badluck about this please.
I don't want to repeat it all. LIFE shows our spouses consequences of their choices, not a loving h.
And it ALWAYS makes the LBSer look vindictive and petty adn usually like he deserved it. Like he pushed his w into the arms of the OM
which is why I say it backfires...
Don't do it. It's your worst traits talking too loudly--see my post on BL's thread please.

I didn't do it and have no intention of doing it now, I just have days of anger/hurt/pain/distress and I calm down before I do anything stupid, I think I wanted to do it as well to kind of defend myself because I keep getting dirty looks from her sister when I see her, I just got to let that go I guess and everything will right itself in the end.

I know my anger rules me at the moment, it feels a different anger to what I've felt in the past when I was stressed, more pure and emotional, I honestly can't see how anybody in my sitch would not be angry - childhood sweethearts, someone I trusted implicitly and who I held up high on a pedestal, someone who I was devoted to and cared deeply for someone whom I have been faithful to and stayed devoted to even when she went through a period of cruel dark clinical depression. It came to me while talking to my IC that in my mind I had a vision of her that she was absolutely perfect and she has broken that vision. I'm angry about she thought I had affairs funny how that only came out 3 months ago! and one of them was over 14 years ago?? I know that 14 years ago if I even looked at another woman my W would have my balls in a grinder! Nevermind an A. I'm also angry that 'she thought we were over' as her explanation for her EA, so 18.5 years together and thats it? 3 kids mean nothing, she wasn't going to try and save the relationship or anything?

I know some of the things she said are projections and 'fog' talk but it still makes me angry.

Phew, I'm nowhere near as angry as I was, I'm doing kickboxing and seeing an IC every week, I really have learnt to control it an awful lot better, and I am noticebly calmer as every week goes by.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi, I'm going to answer the questions as honestly as I can, I know some of what I may answer may be wrong but it is what I truly feel! Please bring out the baseball bat if need be

why did this upset and anger you so much? And if it was "visible" then it was not "contained".

I was upset and angry because I wasn't there to protect her I think, those emotions weren't at her but about the situation, she even said I would of punched him and I'm not a violent person!

Do not move back in without tools for improving the m, which you lack. You will repeat the mistakes of the past and separate again and lessen the chance of truly restoring your m.

What's different now? I don't see it.

How will your m be better and different than before?

Bit of background, neither of us had any understanding about making a marriage/relationship work, neither of us in the past had bought books or being to MC or had a serious talk about our M. The last 10 or so years our M had deteriated (sp) without either of us really noticing until everything came to a head 3 months ago with ILYBINILWY speech and I'm really struggling not to blame OM for that, I'm upset with her for not saying anything sooner if shes known about it for years, it was a complete shock and wake up call for me.

My knowledge of relationships has gone from virtually nothing to quite a lot (not enough but a lot more) in the last 3 months, I've read numerous websites and about 14 books trying to understand everything I can about relationships and how to heal a broken M. I feel now I have an instruction manual to a M, I know not to be defensive when talking with my W, try not to 'fix' anything she says, just validate and empathise and listen to her point of view. I know now that women have a built in natural fear of angry shouting men, I hardly ever shouted at her but was stroppy and stressed quite a lot.


this being upset/angry about OM's pass at her is more of this^^^. Stop it.


I understand and have learn't to look deeper at my emotions and understand why I'm angry and come up with solutions to what makes me angry,

meaning you have NOT looked into the deeper meanings behind your outbursts? Do so asap.

I'm able to put across why I'm upset/angry/hurt in a calm way. I'm closer to my kids then I've ever been before, I'm more patient, understanding and tolerant of their behaviour. I now know my W love languages (Quality time and words of affirmation) and my own, (Physical touch and words of affirmation).

good^^^


I now know that the last few years I've been negative and critical, unsupportive, neglected her, being withdrawn and just thought that paying the bills and putting food on the table was enough for a H.

have you OWNED this^^^ behavior? That means only discuss your behavior. it's the ONLY thing you are to work on and NOT measure what you think she is doing/working on/planning or thinking...



I've also realised an awful lot about myself, my FOO, how something as simple as having a dodgy knee has made me feel like I can't protect my family and that really matters to me and has affected my self esteem. Now of course some of those things I can make an instant change on, other may take some time practicing, I'm not by any means an expert on relationships or my W but I feel I've made a LOT of progress.

almost all of these ^^ things will take TIME & PRACTICE -new behaviors

There are many BIG downsides to moving back in too soon

and few, if ANY, downsides to taking it slowly and rebuilding FIRST...you are doing this backwards.

You both are reacting in fear, and not CHOOSING to change for real.

Agreed, I didn't move back in in the end, I mentioned it again on Sunday and she again said do what I want, it is fear that is making me want to move back in, I really am enjoying the peace and quiet of living on my own at the moment and not living in a house full of toys and bags of ironing everywhere. I admit that I'm hoping she'll start to wonder in the back of her mind why I haven't moved back in, this is a definite 180 for me because I know the old me would of moved back in straightaway.

work on yourself first. To show your anger AT HER OR TO HER for OM making a pass is not healthy.

And I don't know why she told you all of it or if it was to get that reaction.

I'm starting to wonder why as well, it's not the first time shes said something like that, a few months ago it was how she got followed by a van when she went to the shops. Maybe it was some kind of subconcious test? I don't know.

Neither behavior is mature.

Agreed, I really am trying to mature and catch up my emotional age to my actual age.

Good, brave insight^^^

You both need to work on yourselves and stay in your own sandboxes (for your own work and not stare at what the other is doing to match your efforst. That is score keeping and it hurts m's)

This is one of the most frustrating things at the moment, I am slogging my guts out to improve, for myself, for my kids and for her. She has not done anything,

You are not a mind reader. Do not attempt to assess or judge what she is doing or feeling. Knock that off now. It gets you nowhere. It IS scorekeeping AND Mindreading

I would just love to see a bit of effort from her, just read 1 of the many books I have - I haven't asked her too, I know she needs to do it by herself (another 180) or just her seeing an IC would make a massive difference - again not mentioned to her. I'm really not trying to keep a scorecard but I am frustrated but less frustrated than a month ago.

try to rebuild this m

with NEW ways of interacting.

Really trying to, I've decided that if shes not going to read the books and she may never do, then I need to teach her by leading by example and exhibiting healthier ways of problem solving.

demonstrate the new behaviors WITHOUT EXPECTATION OF RECIPROCITY..that is not "change" in you but a tactic to get a desired result from her.

See the diff?

What were your 180s?

Negative - Positive
Critical - Complimentary
Angry - Calm
Stressed - Understanding
unsupportive - Supportive
Perfectionism - Accepting
Quiet - Making conversations
Distant - Closer (kids and to her family)

They SOUND good but are mostly VAGUE...be as specific as YOU can be.

Specificity = believability. Don't generalize.


Miserable - Happier
Persueing - More laid back (remember we've not split up like other sitches on here - just having a breather)
Resentful - Understanding why I feel that way and sorting it out.
Bottling up feelings - talking calmly about my feelings
Being defensive - Taking ownership of my part of the problem



how are you taking ownership when you are measuring and staring at her sandbox and not staying focusses solely on yours?

Not listening - actually listening like a woman wants

Theres probably loads more that I can't think of at the moment but those are the main ones I think.

Did you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy books?

Read DR, started DB today.

I can tell my W is defrosting a bit and slowly she is starting to open up and is trying less to be independent, eg. We went shopping after kids parent evening and she allowed me to pay for the shopping which a month ago she wouldn't do. It just feels like she is trying less hard to prove she can be independent. 2 weeks ago I accidently said something about the future ( I've tried not to) and she said she can't see a future with me in it. Yesterday she mentioned that she wanted something fixed on our car before she drives it ( she hasn't passed her test yet) and that can only imply that she expects me to come back home and that is the general impression I'm getting now from other things she said rather than the opposite for the last months (although her behaviours previously implied different)

What I'm selfishly concerned about is I could become a model H for her but what about my needs? What about her truly taking responsibilty for the parts shes played and and where shes gone wrong rather than giving me lip service that she has.


the short answer is, "tough for you". The longer answer is that she thinks YOU have only given lip service and in her eyes, I suspect, she holds you mostly resposible for the problems leading to the demise of the m. I'm going to post a letter from a WAW to her LBS H, after he claimed to have made changes and wondered why she wasn't coming home or seeing him in a new light...

It will be at the end of this


I only want that so she can makes changes too, I don't want apologies for anything else in the past except a sincere meaningful apology for the EA and for her to really understand how much that has hurt me


You may never get this...or get it to your satisfaction. The issue is can you go on "from this day forward"? Those words are in the vows for a reason. Stop waiting for the grand apology. It's rare.

And if you have forgiven her or are trying to, then stop demanding it.

In her eyes you pushed her into the emotional arms of OM...imo

and what we can put in place to make sure it doesn't happen to either of us again.

the more you get closer and regain trust at both ends, the better you'll feel about that.

W/ new behaviors you both model, and TIME, you may get there. But frankly, the idea that someone really gets it

is a concept LBSers hold onto far too long...not helpful. Keeps YOU stuck.

Here is the letter I mentioned. This is for a wife sep for 6 months, not weeks...try hard to EMPATHIZE with your wife.


FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M.

I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
________

[Denton]

meaning you have NOT looked into the deeper meanings behind your outbursts? Do so asap.

I'm not sure what you mean?, this is an example I gave my W which I took complete ownership of and I said 3 times I don't blame her. I used to pick her from work but instead of coming out when she finished work she used to hang around talking to friends for 30 or so mins sometimes, while I was sat in the car tired and hungry from a days work and with 3 young kids who were bored and tired as it was normally 7pm when I picked her up. I used to get so angry that I was in a bad mood by the time she actually came out and I see that now as disrespect to me which caused my anger then the kids fighting would make me angry which would make them more stressed and then me more angry and all the knock on effects this had, the evening was ruined, the kids don't go to sleep properly because they're stressed, shes angry with me because I'm angry with her.
Now I see that with my new emotional awareness I could of talked to my W about how angry it was making me and see if we could of come up with a different solution such as her coming out on time or if she wanted to stay and talk to friends should could call me and tell me so I could go home and start getting the kids ready for bed or just stopped picking her up! Or just being tougher with her and said if you want me to pick you up from work you need to show me the respect by coming out on time.I guess anything would of been better tan what we were doing. She works within walking distance from home, I only picked her up as a favour for her.

Thats what I've learnt, does that explain it or have I missed something?

have you OWNED this^^^ behavior? That means only discuss your behavior. it's the ONLY thing you are to work on and NOT measure what you think she is doing/working on/planning or thinking...

I believe I have, I'm still coming to terms with it though. As I wrote that ^^^ I'm not sure I have! I know it is my problem and for me to solve but at the moment I can't help looking at what she has done that contributed towards it? Is that enough for ownership or do I need to try and get it out completely out of my mind that she had absolutely anything to do with it?

You are not a mind reader. Do not attempt to assess or judge what she is doing or feeling. Knock that off now. It gets you nowhere. It IS scorekeeping AND Mindreading

I'll work harder on this ^^^^, I don't expect her to make the effort I've made it would just be nice for her to get off the starting line!

demonstrate the new behaviors WITHOUT EXPECTATION OF RECIPROCITY..that is not "change" in you but a tactic to get a desired result from her.

See the diff?

Yes I do see the difference, it's hard for me not to have some expectations from her in the future.

the short answer is, "tough for you". The longer answer is that she thinks YOU have only given lip service and in her eyes, I suspect, she holds you mostly resposible for the problems leading to the demise of the m.

I was expecting that answer but it's good to hear it, thinking about it I think she does blame me mostly for the M breakdown and I absolutely am certain that she doesn't believe in the changes yet and I don't expect her too and in a way I don't want her too as it is extra motivation for me to make these new behaviours stick.

You may never get this...or get it to your satisfaction. The issue is can you go on "from this day forward"? Those words are in the vows for a reason. Stop waiting for the grand apology. It's rare.

From reading other posts I thought that was the answer, but I really needed someone to tell it to me personally! So thankyou for that.

And if you have forgiven her or are trying to, then stop demanding it.

I haven't forgiven her, I'm desperetly trying to, I think thats why I want the apology so bad so I can forgive her.

W/ new behaviors you both model, and TIME, you may get there. But frankly, the idea that someone really gets it
is a concept LBSers hold onto far too long...not helpful. Keeps YOU stuck.

I'm not sure what you mean there, is it that I am hopeful that she will truly see the whole sitch as I see it and see everything and take ownership of the areas she has gone wrong like I have?

Thanks

[MrBond]

IMHO, here's what I got from your posts...

"This is one of the most frustrating things at the moment, I am slogging my guts out to improve, for myself, for my kids and for her. She has not done anything,"

She doesn't have to do anything. It's her choice.

"What I'm selfishly concerned about is I could become a model H for her but what about my needs? What about her truly taking responsibilty for the parts shes played and and where shes gone wrong rather than giving me lip service that she has."

If this is how you feel, then you're going to fail. It's not about YOUR needs anymore. Didn't you mention that you were selfish, etc. and that's what drove her away? When you talk about your needs, you're doing the same. Which is why you get angry (which is the same reaction). No one is saying that your W hasn't had her share of issues, but right now YOU'RE the one who wants to save the marriage and she doesn't. So unfortunately you're going to have to be the one to do the heavy lifting.

[censored] but true.

If you choose to be the initiator, you're going to have to increase your patience.

[Denton]

Quick Vday update, yesterday I bought her a Vday card from the kids and some roses from me, I got the card from the kids due to the advice on here not to remind her that she doesn't love me. I chose roses because for the last 18 years I've bought her chocolate for Vday, b'day and xmas plus randomly at times and she has loved it but in the last 3 months she said that 'I always did it to try and keep her fat and specifically in the last 6 months to ruin her diet' even though I hardly bought her any chocolate because of the diet and the one time I remember I did I deliberetly chose dark chocolate.

Anyway I got S9 to hide them in his room as I'm not going too see her or the kids today and he gave them to her this morning, I also got some roses from the kids for MIL as she does so much for us and her H died 3 years ago (this I think has played a part of our current sitch) and I kind of identified with her as I'm on my own this Vday and the kids gave them to her last night.

Just got a text saying 'thankyou for the roses it was very kind', it was part of a text sorting out childcare arrangement for tomorrow but at least it was taken as a positive. She also replied later that her Mum was absolutely made up with her flowers, which I am really happy with as well, thats part of 1 of my 180s to connect better with her family

[Denton]

Mr Bond...
I'm not convinced I am selfish in the whole scheme of things infact scratch that, I wasn't selfish in our M. One of her complaints was that we always did what I wanted to do which to a point is correct BUT she hardly ever said what she wanted to do and when asked about something the usual reply I got from her is 'I don't mind'. This is part of my frustration, she never said what she wants, pretty much anything that she asked for she got. This theme is carried on throughout the marriage. From our talking she really must of expected me to be a mind reader.

With my needs, I feel that when we talk about a WAS that the LBS was an really bad H/W and the WAS was some kind of prince or princess. I guess I feel that in my sitch because we only talk about the negative things as those are what need to improve. I stopped 2 months ago mentioning anything to her about her changing or improving or my needs as I know that was not going to help. In my specific sitch she is just as guilty as I have been and most of her complaints I have back at her.

I know I've got to suck it up and do the heavy lifting but it doesn't hurt to be told again She is trying a bit I just don't think shes ready to give it 100% yet, I'm trying to be as patient as I can - then trying to double that patience and just be greatful I'm not in the same sitch as other people on here. I keep looking for baby steps and keeps seeing them, I NEED to improve on keeping my hand still (as in the feeding the squirrel analogy on here).

Thanks for your thoughts

[25yearsmlc]

Mr Bond...
I'm not convinced I am selfish in the whole scheme of things infact scratch that, I wasn't selfish in our M.

Wow that was fast. You have already revised things in the m....(like your w?) Stop it. You won't grow. You keep using that scorecard to make yourself feel better b/c maybe MAYBE the ugly truth is,

you could have done a lot BETTER as a h, and that is the barometer, not "could have been worse" .


One of her complaints was that we always did what I wanted to do which

^^^sounds selfish...come on, you know it.

Just b/c she didn't fight you doesn't mean you knew it wasn't you getting your way. And when she did make an issue of it you SAY she "always got her way" but that tells me there's resentment on your end so she probably did NOT tell you how she felt very often..not worth the cost of your pouting...

sorry but Denton when you post, I sense eagerness to grow on your part, mixed heavily with innate immaturity and anger. Lose the scorecard, please!


Newsflash...she has her own scorecard and you are NOT ahead...
so how does it help you to keep using your point of view/scorecard? Answer...it does not.

to a point is correct BUT she hardly ever said what she wanted to do and when asked about something the usual reply I got from her is 'I don't mind'. This is part of my frustration, she never said what she wants, pretty much anything that she asked for she got. This theme is carried on throughout the marriage.

seriously? She got "pretty much anything she asked for...throughout the marriage"...then i guess your sitch is hopeless b/c she is too selfish and you were too kind,
so you can go away right but powerless OR

do you want to feel empowered? Then CHANGE YOU...

and btw, you really are revising things b/c I read your whole thread. Truth can hurt but that doesn't mean you keep running from or denying it. You'll hurt MORE by doing that than by facing it.

From our talking she really must of expected me to be a mind reader.

With my needs, I feel that when we talk about a WAS that the LBS was an really bad H/W and the WAS was some kind of prince or princess. I guess I feel that in my sitch because we only talk about the negative things as those are what need to improve.


Why would we talk about your perfect qualities HERE? Your m is in peril. Your w wants out. YOU have to show her that marriage to YOU can be better and different than before.

how are YOU doing that?


I stopped 2 months ago mentioning anything to her about her changing or improving or my needs as I know that was not going to help. In my specific sitch she is just as guilty as I have been and most of her complaints I have back at her.


irrelevant scorekeeping...Learn empathy. See things from HER perspective ASAP or you'll get nowhere.


I know I've got to suck it up and do the heavy lifting but it doesn't hurt to be told again


okay, you've got to suck it up and do the heavy lifting. For a LONG time.



She is trying a bit


then be grateful!! Stop adding your expectations..learn some dang patience.

I just don't think shes ready to give it 100% yet, I'm trying to be as patient as I can -

really? How about NOT discussing what you think SHE is doing and Tell me what you mean by how you are trying to be as patient as you can


then trying to double that patience and just be greatful I'm not in the same sitch as other people on here.

read this^^^ to yourself hourly if needed


I keep looking for baby steps and keeps seeing them,
I NEED to improve on keeping my hand still (as in the feeding the squirrel analogy on here).

Yes you do. So now you KNOW what to do...so do it. Where the head goes, the heart will, eventually, follow.

Don't confuse self respect with your wounded ego, anger or pride. Those things are not helpful in this situation.

Thanks for your thoughts