Angel, I do not think I advocated calling anyone out on their behaviour. That certainly wasn't what I was trying to say.
I have successfully raised three boys into men, with whom I have a very close relationship and I KNOW that is not how you do it. That is how my xh was raised, and I saw friends making the same mistake. Mostly you look the other way, but even so there are boundaries, for their sake and for your own.
And I agree about DBing being counter intuitive. I have DBed a several relationships very successfully since learning that obvious and yet so very non-obvious technique.
What I would say with the greatest respect is that DBing isn't always very effective with many MLCers. Your h had a very very short crisis, and I am happy for you, but most people here have been dealing with someone whose crisis was deeper and very much longer. I do not think you are intending to say that those spouses are all out there in MLC because of a failure of DBing techniques?
Don't get me wrong, DBing is a good technique, but on its own I do not think it touches most MLCers. It helps us, for sure, though!
My xh still after over six years, reverts to spewing, not only at me, but at his children too [not the way he was at all pre crisis]. My dil is a therapist and very skilled at dealing with people, so it isn't just me who is having a hard time! He has been dealt with with gentleness and love, only putting my foot down when I thought it was necessary for myself and for him, as I tried to deal with my children. The only time I got really angry was when he phoned me up to shout abuse two days before I was going into hospital for a very major [nine hours] operation. Am I proud of being angry, No, but there you go we are not eperfect, any of us.
DBing doesn't always work, and it isn't a sure fire solution, and we must never think if we do it 'right' they will come home, and if they don't come home we 'failed'. MLC really isn't that simple.
Different techniques work for different people. There really is no right or wrong solution. The core of my ex husband is that he will do anything to push my buttons. Spewing was so unlike him throughout our whole marriage, that when he started this behavior it threw me for a loop. He gained a lot of negative attention from me and that is what he wanted at the time. Spewing takes the attention off of us, and puts it on them. During my ex's MLC, setting boundaries made him rebel more. It was "resistence" to him and that made him less likely to look at himself as the problem. I found my best tactic was to dismiss him, walk away, or go no contact. Deep down, they know what they are doing. My ex has told me that many times, i.e., don't you think I know my affair is wrong?, don't you know I have a hard time looking in the mirror? I know I am hurting you... Those are all examples. Ml'ers are adolescents. They want to rebel. They want to get reactions from you.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
When my H came home yesterday he was acting like a teenage boy who was asserting his independence. He sent me a text making sure his favorite program would be recorded. "Shameless", if anyone also gets a kick out of that show.
He made several comments about "His" bedroom. I told him flat out I am sleeping in the Master bedroom, he can sleep where he wants. He made some noise that he guessed he would have to move all the clthes around. I said do what you have to do I am sleeping in our bedroom.
I also asked him to try not to say things to me that were mean and hurtful. I tried to give him some examples. Like him telling me that he was thinking at the concert that it would have been more fun if OW was there.
I told him that was really a childish way to talk to me. He burst out with the comment: "We are all adults!" And I said it doesn't matter how old we are, there is some childish behaviour going on.
He then told me I have said hurtful things to him. I said I probably had. He said I get mad and say mean things. He is still mad that I contacted OW's adult son. And I told him I know I shouldn't have done that, I was just so blindsided by his actions. I also shouldn't have contacted her STBX. But you can't unring a bell. Thank goodness I found the DB/DR books. Who knows what else I might have done?!?
Last night I went to bed a little earlier than him. He came in and got in bed without a word. I realize why he wants me to move out. He never told OW when I moved back into the bedroom. New Years Day.
And I have slept there since and plan to for the rest of the time I'm in this house. OW believes we are sleeping apart and evidently as part of his acting like an 8th grader he continues to lie to everyone.
A couple days ago I told him I ought to write it on facebook, and he about came unglued. Anyway, I'm becoming less and less concerned about this whole thing. If he ends up with OW she and he may well deserve each other. Lies, Lies and more lies are all that come out of either one of them.
Last night my H was all confused because I asked him exactly what OW gets out of all the lies she tells. And he had some convoluted explaniation about how it was because she has been hurt so many times she lies to get people to tell her the truth, so she can see that they really are tricking her.
I said that what he said didn't make any sense. He thought about it and told me I was making it all twisted in his head. I realized at that point that I needed to just not talk to him anymore. I wanted to leave, but really had no where to go.
I should have just not been home when he got home. He actually passed my DIL in our neighborhood as he came in and she left with the girls.
I really think this is the time for me to dissapear more. When he took off the other night I was praying for the strength to just drop the rope. It is so darn hard.
He is back to texting OW every 5 minutes and I know her needy ways will bother him after awhile. I just need to figure out how to get out of his way, and stay clear of things that make me want to complain.
For someone who wants to sell bhis house ASAP, he is putting very little effort into it.
Oh well, on with my day. I hope everyone has a nice one!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
DB'ing starts out as a technique, that is true, especially when you are lost right after the bomb and don't know what to do. Like a zombie, you go to the library, internet, or bookstore, and if you are lucky and picked up this book or read on this school of thought, then you are able to breathe, buy yourself some time instead of acting on your raw emotions and doing something drastic.
But as you go along, you learn that DBing is not a technique. More than that, it opens your eyes to what you really are. It puts your hurt, anger, concentration on your spouse on hold and makes you look inside you first. That is why first of all, it benefits us.
Beatrice, I did not say specifically that you advocated calling them out. I just was responding to your "bad fairy" comment about possibly hindering reconciliation. I was posting in general that I don't think it is good to call out the MLCers rudeness right at that time they are doing it, I reviewed my post and the unsaid portion there was that there will be a time later, when they are more open, when it will be discussed. But actions can speak as well, not speaking to them when they are being rude, and responding when they are nice, will make them learn the way to speak with you. The same with kids. We were all kids once and I was one of the rebels, so I know exactly how it feels when my mom would call me out. In fact, I still have that same visceral reaction even now when she does point out my flaws, even when I know she is right!
Back to DBing - never was there a guarantee that it would restore a M. There are times when maybe the spouse is too damaged, may be battling mental issues, may just have a hard character..... who knows. My friend has a husband who beat her, I feel that is a total deal breaker. My sister has an H who is bipolar, and who now is raging at her and has dragged their finances down with IRS problems, etc. and I do feel sort of hopeless for them, and I have not even brought up DBing with her as I don't think it will solve it. Although I noticed that she does DB intuitively, for some reason - maybe as self protection? The concept of detachment, and of finding her own happiness was something that she has been practicing for the longest time. Maybe thats why she has managed to live with her H in spite of their problems for the past 10 years, and only now has it really started to spiral down to the point of no return, I would say, if it were me.
Yes, I am lucky, but I am not out of the woods yet. I pray everyday that I keep my changes, and that my H learns more and more, but he is not out yet. He is brave enough at times to take the pain but most of the time, he shields himself. He once told me that he knew what he dd, and that I did not have to point it out to him.
Anyway, got to go now .... but i just had a lightbulb moment earlier about DBing and will post it later.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Take yourself out to the movies, go sit in Starbucks and read a book, go for a drive around the island - whatever. Just get out of there. Let him wonder where you've been, what you've been up to.
Thanks KML! I will put a quick escape bag in the car.
I was thinking about Valentine's Day. I was trying to visualize a quilt I wanted to make. And my happy heart I was picturing in my head turned into a heart with a dagger in it. Then the dagger turned into a long thin saint statue piercing the heart. The saint has the same name as my husbands middle name and OW's given name. (Part of why they are destined to be together) So much for that quilt idea......
I have had 33 years of miserable Valentine's Days. 33 years ago my sister reminded my now H, then BF that it was going to be our first Valentine's Day together. She walked he and I to Zales, where we picked out the tiniest pair of white gold hoops for me. I am pretty sure there was no card involved. A few months later he bought me a promise ring which cost $110.
Once, years ago, he was away on a military trip and I got flowers on Valentine's Day. I was so confused. I thought the delivery guy had the wrong house. Turns out one of the guys he was travelling with had a wife with a flower shop, and all the guys were cohersed into ordering flowers at the same time.
He has given me flowers maybe 10 times all together since Jan 1979 when we started dating. That is for birthdays, anniversaries, V Day, surgeries, births of children. He just doesn't see these things as important.
So this year, with his on again, off again attitude, and the still horrible feelings I have left from him giving me an anniversary card signed "Love, His Name" then THE NEXT DAY telling me he really wanted OW, I think I will skip the card.
He was wanting some carrot cake. I'm not even sure about that. I think I will be gone when he gets home from work tomorrow. He can eat leftovers or rush over to see OW. I really just don't care to spend more effort to make him happy and me get crumbs again.
He has never been romantic, never made much effort. I actually am not the sort to worry so much about this stuff. But it sort of makes me see that maybe he is more broken than I realize.
What I have always viewed as quiet and reserved is starting to seem like never really connected and emotionally detached in a scary way.
I am depressed in a really weird way. I just don't feel like doing anything! So I guess I will pay the bills and try to force myself to do something!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
Egad! I was at your stage of the game so many times, WT. I have finally got to the place where I don't care one way or the other what my H is doing, or with whom. I kicked him out of my bedroom last year because he wasn't being a real H. I stood for so long, that it was easy to detach. He says he tried, yeah ... right! I haven't seen any evidence of it ... must be in his head. I'm past the anger, past the hurt, past the fear of being alone, just done.
I guess OW's H has been deployed so she's whining to your H. It's so funny that they lie to their spouses and to each other. What kind of R is that? If they were to actually live together, it would blow up in no time, because it would be built on a very shaky foundation.
IMO, do nothing, just detach and go about your life, having fun, laughing, GAL. But, don't engage him in conversation, unless he speaks first. Then you end it. And the first hint of any kind of insult, or meanness ... leave the room. And don't be running around for him. Don't be the proverbial doormat. Why should you be the good W, when he is the lousy H? I would go so far as to not do anything for him at all, so he can see what you do for him, all the time. No taping shows, not going out to buy cakes, no anything special. He doesn't deserve it. And, maybe, just to be naughty, lose his cell phone. Hahaha! Then you be the hero in finding it. Play head games with him and OW ... no, I guess that would be mean. You'd have to be really detached to do it.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Lol. Did you happen to see Katy Perry's new song at the Grammy's last night? It's dangerous to break up with an artist.
My original threads here were all titled Valentine's Day Massacre.
My H was kinda like yours. Actually, he was pretty good about flowers and cards and presents - just not reliably on Valentine's Day. I wrote it off, I wasn't big into material things anyway, it was a commercial holiday, blah blah blah. But now that I look back, I can see his enthusiasm for Valentine's Day waxed and waned with his enthusiasm for the marriage - I just wasn't being let in on the secret.
I remember one horrible Valentine's day, when we were in marriage counseling after his affair. We happened to have a counseling apptmt that day, and I got there first. I remember the therapist asking me what H had done for me for Valentine's day - and me making some lame excuse for him. Which the male therapist clearly thought was lame. Ugh.
Now I kinda hate the holiday. This year [censored], because I am going to break up with the guy I have been dating - that is, if he ever calls me, since I haven't heard from him in a week and a half - which is the reason I'm breaking up with him! I expect he'll probably call tomorrow at the last minute - that would be typical for him -I'm not gonna pick up, because I don't want to break up with him on Valentine's day. I have the message already written and ready to send on Wednesday though.
And that's my task here to learn - why do I pick the kind of guys that don't celebrate love on Valentine's Day? Hey - maybe that should be a screening question for the guys I date - "what was the most romantic thing you ever did for Valentine's Day?"
@BeingMe: OW's STBX hasn't deployed yet. She still maintains he is getting kicked out, he told me he is deploying with his unit. Guess when his unit deploys and he does or doesn't we will know the truth. My H said why would she lie about that? I said so you will think she is destitute, or going to be. Hello!
To lose his cell phone he would have to not be touching it. When he is in the "Stay" mode he leaves it plugged in on the end table and goes to the bathroom and leaves it alone with me. When he is in "Go" mode it is always on his person.
@KML: I think we tend to recreate our old worlds, maybe not on purpose. I think i was drawn to my H because he is quiet, like my dad was. But my dad was much more of a romantic, playful, joker.
My H used to be playful and joke around. But for romance I realized it was almost always me doing all the work. I used to wear fancy underwear, would put a lot of effort into the visual, candles, etc.
I think you should just find a guy who celebrates love. Then you won't care what day it is!
Okay, I am in the sewing room doing some work, don't tell anyone!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
