I think in my case compassion confuses me or makes it difficult.
This is because I see someone that I care about having a true propblem. They're really in pain, they're perception of reality is so skewed. They see the people that really love them as enemies. They can't see the love and compassion infront of them. They literally walk away from something so special and will never find until they're able to bring that wall down. That wall more than likely will never come down.
I can't fix this, it is completely beyond my control. Control isn't the issue here for me. Its me seeing things through rose colored glasses I guess. Grasping the concept that people throw away such wonderful people due to their own issues just makes me ill.
I'm right with you again, Kimmerz, but for me love and compassion help me to let go. We can't make people see things or pull down their walls. And sometimes they'll never come down because those people are not well.
I see H's pain and feel for him, but there's nothing I can do about it. If I didn't have love and compassion I'd probably be angry, tied in knots and obsessed about his life and actions. Not good. I don't get how people can just throw away wonderful people either because it's not part of my moral code, but I do feel for the misery that must be behind such actions.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
I am with you both. I believe I know the terrible guilt and resentment that my W has carried with her for too many years. When I try to even imagine how she must feel I am moved to tears, and I probably am not even close to how it must be for her.
The defences put in place to cope must be huge, and the fear of really facing her underlying feelings probably terrifying. In her own words she thinks of this everyday ,and this is the reason she does not deserve anything good in life. Hence the constant PA obstructing and sabotaging and self destructive behaviour.
However unless she seeks to resolve this herself and face her 'final fears' there is nothing I can do, and I will not let her destroy me either.
We didn't break them it is not our job to fix them.
The defences put in place to cope must be huge, and the fear of really facing her underlying feelings probably terrifying. In her own words she thinks of this everyday ,and this is the reason she does not deserve anything good in life. Hence the constant PA obstructing and sabotaging and self destructive behaviour.
However unless she seeks to resolve this herself and face her 'final fears' there is nothing I can do, and I will not let her destroy me either.
We didn't break them it is not our job to fix them.
Yup yup yup. This thread has been a godsend for me. Unbelievable.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
Trying to figure out if it's a PA behavior poking out or if Im just too bored in my life and trying to over analyze.
Xh told me his schedule for the week and what days off he has. Normaly he always politely asks if it's ok if he can have the girls overnight at least one night on his days off. '
Today he says " I can take the girls Wednesday night if you want".
Like he was offering to babysit or something.
I passed the buck and told him I would leave it up to him, I didn't mind if they were with him or home this week.
See he always used to say " well we can do this, that, etc. if you want". Then sometimes whatever was offered I didn't want to do it. Then later down the road I was told I never want to do anything because that one time he offered to do it " If I want" and I said no.
Oh and the restaruant thing,,,that happened when we were dating! I chose the place to eat and he sulked because he really wanted to go elsewhere! I about died and came home and told my mom. Guess what she blurted out? Passive aggressive behavior! My mom was a psychiatric nurse. She was so awesome, I miss her so much. She passed away 7 years ago.
before I knew about PA (I thought she just had a 'f@#k you' attitude) I realized no matter what I suggested she would suggest the opposite. So if I wanted to go to a particular type restaurant I would suggest the opposite, always a win-win I actually got to eat where I wanted and she felt she was denying me what I wanted, both of us content!
If I went with her suggestion and didn't complain she would make a point of criticizing something about it and then say 'we should have gone where you wanted to go'.
It is important for the PA to know that he/she is responsible for their own actions and must set their own boundaries. Because they lack empathy it is often necessary to point out the consequences of their actions or in-actions on other peoples feelings. By not clearly stating a position they are passing the buck to you, no matter what you will be held accountable, nothing is ever their fault.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
"It is important for the PA to know that he/she is responsible for their own actions and must set their own boundaries. Because they lack empathy it is often necessary to point out the consequences of their actions or in-actions on other peoples feelings. By not clearly stating a position they are passing the buck to you, no matter what you will be held accountable, nothing is ever their fault."
Thank you for this! This is a reminder to me about so many things in the past! Having absoulutely no empathy for anyone else in regards to their actions. I remember many years ago xh had a big christmas party at work. He had chosen a girls name for a gft exchange. Being the big prankster he always is, boy did he have plans. Well as time went on, what he considered to just be a few prank joke gifts were becoming VERY inappropriate. I brought it to his attention and he wasn't very happy with me at the time. But I said to him #1 think about how emabarassed this girl would be. #2. You may have someone that's not going to like you very much after that. #3. You just may really tick off her boyfriend. How would you take it if some guy gave me these gifts at a party? What would you think their motvies were, or what were you calling her?
He re thought it and brought the prank joke down to 1 out of 3. Turns out the prank joke he gave her, really embarassd her. I said " see there, even that joke wouldn't have upset me, but look how embarassed she it. What if you gave her the other stuff?"
Have mercy as I was going through boxes a few months ago I found those prank gifts. Maybe I should give them to OW?
Question, 4myfamily....what other books have you read on PA? I have "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man". You're insights are so dead on...of course you living with this for as many years as I have.
I have to say that was a good call in regards to how you handled choosing the restaraunt... I liked that! One thing I noticed over the years was a decision would be made to go eat one place but en route to the other place another option would come up, and then trying to choose between the two would be an issue for 30 minutes.
I've noticed that XH seems to be acting out more in overtly controlling ways. I mean just coming right out and barking orders. Then turn around and pass the buck on other things.
Question, 4myfamily....what other books have you read on PA? I have "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man". You're insights are so dead on...of course you living with this for as many years as I have.
I am not sure if rules allow links to other sites. Can't see any prohibition in forum rules, so here goes. I find this site to be very insightful.
Also bookwise: Overcoming Passive-Aggression how to stop anger from spoiling your relationships, career and happiness. Tim Murphy and Loriann Hoff Oberlain.
I found: Emotional Unavailabilty by Bryn C Collins to be very helpful.
Both might be useful next time around!! (If there is one, once you have been sucked in by the cool charm of the PA, might be a case of 'once bitten twice shy'?)
I just wanted to tell everyone that they absolutely must use this link provided by 4myfamily.
It links to many other articles of this PA issue and how deep it runs. There are even some posts from PA people themselves and of course many spouses that are suffering from living with this type of person. Wow, xh seems to have severe PA in waves, but it's all the same. So glad to see the perfect type of man that sweeps you off your feet is just a sharade. You know he started acting different 4 days after we got married.
Thanks for those links. I really really need those reminders and 2x4's. My divorce should be final and Im starting to remember the very good times that I will treasure and starting in with a pity party. Then I come to this board and get reminded of the reality of what my life has been for many years.
I had to get away from it to gain perspective and really start to see some things that I didn't because I put blinders on. There were so many red flags and things that would happen or make my gut hurt that I knew were wrong. It also dawned on my that my world has been rather isolated up until I started to work again. I was a stay at home mom for 10 years. It's amazing how small your world can become and you don't even know it. Losing my own mother, him losing 3 grandparents, in addition to xh almost losing his life, plus him leaving me 2 times all within 3 years put me in a fog mentally. I didn't want to see anymore bad things, I had enough.
Wow. I didn't realize just how much I've been through the last few years. How on earth am I still standing?
