I'm in a hurry atm so I can't fully respond. First & foremost, I'll send you some big hugs for hanging in there as you have. ((((( )))))
Its great to hear from you, and yes I can feel the hugs. Mmmmmmmmm....thanks.
ALSO here are a few questions so I don't have to review the whole thread. I recall your w having major baggage and issues that were pretty significant and that she's seeing a shrink. Is she addressing the issues or not?
Yes, she is addressing the issues head on, and is riding a roller coaster while doing it. I am proud of her and admire that she has the guts to face this because she didnt face any of it until she broke down in 2011. She's just got to the point where she can own the issues, face them, not blame me. It's like she has said, aaaah, okay, this is me, and she see's the effect it had on her, me, our family. I think she is just starting to think about how she can live differently. She has said its like she's unwinding a 45 year ball of a wiring mess, and is just beginning to rewire herself.
Is there a diagnosis to her, from a doctor? You said someone said she's emotionally 8. What were they talking about and what was that based on?
Fortunately she does share her sessions with me. Basically what I know is what I hear from her passing it on to me after her sessions and she does seem to be forthcoming with it. She wasn't doing that at all before and progress has been made over the year.
The psychiatrist is saying that if he could he would see her every day. He recognizes that she may be one of the toughest cases he has had and that's saying a lot. He does not have a specific diagnosis yet but he has put forth the concept of narcissistic personality disorder, a martyr complex and post traumatic arrested development. He believes the abuse followed by her Dad's death left he stuck in development at age eight. Then her teen years just propelled her downwards into this even more. And she does fit the pattern of it. I always thought of it that way throughout the years. She wasn't willing to look into these things through the years. She just kept burying it, denying endlessly and it finally caught up with her.
If they are treating HER, what are they doing about THAT?
Basically, besides anti-anxiety med the treatment has been to slowly draw her out from her fears, get her to examine each issue and then take baby steps to develop new habits. I have to be very careful not to judge her progress by any timetable except her own, and not by my desires. Fortunately I'm able keep my inability to consistently do this inside. You guys on this board know what I'm struggling with but I'm doing pretty good with maintaining the safe, place of comfort for her. I having trouble with the emotional part of this as you read in my post.
Does she have bi polar issues or borderline personality or abandonment (I'm sure you both have that)?
See above ^^^^^^^^^^^^. Bi-polar has not been put forth as a diagnosis, although its huge in her family
And btw, your own abandonment issues may give you the motivation to stick this out and that's great.....
OR it may make you stay longer than you should.
My W and I had a lot of similar trauma as kids but handled it very differently. I'm am evaluating whether the strengths I developed by my earlier tests were in some ways harmful in certain circumstances. All along I knew what the challenges were in our sitch and I told myself that no matter what I was going to make this work. I was not going to let my kids suffer like I did, nor handle it the way my parents did. My own issues did complicate this for certain. In this one area, feeling unloveable, I had no confidence. I used to think that if I drew the line at the abuse I was getting from her, she would never choose to face her issues because I didn't matter enough to her. So I ate it, and became what I never wanted to be in life, controlled by it and bitter.
If given the choice between the two, I'd prefer having stayed a bit too long than quitting a bit too soon. But there is sometimes a fine line.
And I understand your desire to know if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
YOU could create that line if you give yourself an internal deadline for your m to improve or end... I go through a number of possibilities and my emotions ride the coaster because truthfully, I'm not detached in the DB sense I guess. I know that she has all this going on. I know it's magnitude. But, I do feel I'm be taken for granted too. I have so much to figure out here!
I have thought about putting some sort of end date out there. When I do that I feel like I'm insulting what only the universe can do in its own time. Who am I to put some arbitray date out there when this whole things runs so deep, and has so many ramifications of the soul/god level?
but you've said there's so much progress lately and then I read this post and wonder what all of it means.
Can you recap? I can say that in the last year she went from a complete breakdown, left me and the kids, blamed me for it all and said we were done. That went on for about six months. Then she began to feel that maybe this whole thing was something inside of her that she needed to figure out but we were probably not going to make it. That went for about three months and in that time she began seeing the psychiatrist. From then till now she has owned up to that this thing, the trauma, it's affects on everything, and making sure she faces it down and learns how to live without her completely dominating fears and limitations. She talks about our marriage as being an unknown going forward, not sure if it will or won't work because she doesn't know who or what she is yet, and she doesn't want to do anything in the ways that harmed her all along. She understands and says she appreciates my patience and understanding in this and does tell me that here and there. She's not saying she doesn't love me. She is saying she doesn't yet know how to live herself, never mind how to be in a M.
Originally Posted By: rickb89
Shadow of the Valley of Death walk continues.
The more I focus on myself and my journey, the more I question what I'm doing. I guess I have to accept that my emotions are going to be wildly up and down as I walk this walk. YES^^^ Maybe I shouldn't have a right to complain. There are so many people on this post whose spouses have left the home and/or D is imminent. Maybe I have no right to be upset. Maybe nobody has a right to be upset. Maybe hurt is necessary for growth.
IDK if hurt is 'necessary for growth" but it makes the pain at least productive. OTherwise it's all negative. Frankly, I'd like to "learn a life lesson" by having a GREAT thing happen to me, like winning the lottery...
I keep thinking that I have a right to be happy too. As I think in terms of how to live daily life, be fulfilled, and be open to happiness I find I'm getting angrier at the sitch. YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT/DUTY TO BE HAPPY...how can you create that for yourself now? [color:#000099]
[color:#000099]I can't figure myself out in this. Maybe it's totally selfish of me? I've dealt with this sitch for over 20 yrs. Until the bomb I had it in my head that we would be together for our life and I enjoyed the many great things we had as H/W. I felt loved and had a companion, albeit a troubled one. Now, I don't know what will happen. I have to say I want to love wildly again. I want to let my heart out and let hers in but it isn't happening.
[color:#000099]If I felt she was working for our M too I would feel much better but she doesn't say that. She's working for herself and her kids, and maybe there's an us down the road.
Why is it dependent on her?[/b] [/color]
If I was a sole entity without love for her it would be easy. My heart and souls is bound to her by love. I don't know how to shut that off completely if that is what detaching truly is. So yes, this sitch does affect my happiness. I'd be doing the same thing as my wife did for her entire life if I denied the truth of how I feel for her. I think as long as I love her and stay with her I have to accpet the pain that comes with this sitch and keep living in the areas that have meaning to me. I around someone every day who has shut her heart off to me. If I do the same then where does that leave us?
Last night my W was out with her friend for dinner and my youngest and I were at home watching a movie. When it was over I was feeling like I do not feel like seeing her when she gets home. It's because its going to be all about her as everything is right now. So I figure I'll go to bed and read and choose not to be in the path of a sitch that will be completely one-sided.
Anyway, she gets home and decides to come into the room, sit on the bed and tell me everything in her day, her dinner, and showing me the photos she took using the technigues she learned in her photography class, and a whole bunch of other stuff. at least she's sharing with you. Rick It's not a contest. She's opening up and you are having conversations that don't end up in conflict. That's progress.
It sure is progress. I never thought we would get to this stage when this all blew up. I think its definitely progress for her and yes she does share pretty much all of how she is feeling with me. Our M is a huge question mark though.
That's nice in an of itself, but its in a unatural situation. I mean its 100% one-sided. I'm never asked about my life. If I bring anything up she might acknowledge it a bit but move on to her again. I even see this in our family functions. No matter who it is talking about whatever, the subject matter completely comes back to her, always. The psychiatrist said she is stuck at age eight and I see that. I've got her next to me in bed, a woman I haven't touched in a year, who hasn't given me a ounce of consideration for my life, doesn't seem to get it at all, and is totally threatened by my life if it appears in any way to be moving on from her. this^^^ is what I was recalling. What's the shrink's PLAN for her treatment? The prognosis? IS the therapy all about rehashing the past? I often think that just relives and prolongs the traumatizing event.
What is she planning on DOING with her life now? What is she SAYING to you about the m?
She has no idea how she will live her life but she knows how she does not want to live it. She told last week me that she is facing it all, sorting it all out, trying on new concepts, trying to simplify and organize her life. Our M is a question that will get addressed some where in all of this.
I realize that I'm responding emotionally to her and that's not detachment. And I know I have a problem with thinking in absolutes. How do I not be attached when I live with her like this? I wonder if I'm actually enabling her to live this fantasy life by providing the road home, the financial support, the cheerleading, the home, the time and space. I do have many interesting things in my life so its not a matter of finding things to do for me. In fact it would be nice to slow down some.
in a sense, every WAS gets to cake eat for awhile. Otherwise we'd be divorced. I'm not saying to do this eternally.
But don't beat yourself up over it or think you are a "dumbass". And I do see why you'd get tired of it. I get that.
In explaining this all to you I feel like how can I not give her all the time in the world. After a year of this sitch, and all that has gone on, no comfort from her, no idea where this will lead, all of it, I am just so unbelievably tired.
How does one detach emotionally without just moving on? That's my problem with absolutes. I keep thinking back to my real Mom who lived and died by what I believe to be a samurai death.
you mean heroic? or like a martyr? Is that all positive to you?
My Mom had the balls to stick to her core beliefs, her code of honor all the way to the end. That does appeal to me, her strength. What I can only see now but couldn't see until I grww up was how much I am like her, and it makes me feel very good. Maybe she would have found love again, with my Dad or someone else had she lived. I can see the merit in her living her vows out like she did, but I am starting to wonder about what it means to focus on self. What is selfish of me. I am certainly capable of being happy and if she died today I know I would be able to live a fulfilled life. She is here though, and is in the fight of her life. I don;t know where I fit in with her. I don't know what our M is. I feel like detaching from her is abandoning her. I also feel that not detaching from her is abandoning me.
When my Dad left her I was ten and came to the US to live with her. She never remarried and had an incredible opportunity to do that. She had her flings but they were away from the home so my brother and I didn't see them. She was only 16 yrs older than me so she was quite young at the time. The point I want to make is that she could and would never give up on my Dad and her, she would not let the hope for the M vows die. Then, while we were still kids she gets cancer and dies. She made a vow to see it through, and not give up on her M and the family. I saw her waste away day by day and scream in pain, and ultimately die alone but with her principles intact. ouch...(((( ))))
[color:#000099]Yeah, ouch. The poor girl suffered so much[/color]
So, as I live this life of being there for my W, and being there for my kids, my family, my employees, my friends, I wonder how does anyone detach without a 100% goodbye detachment from your S? What is selfish here? What is self preservation? What is sensible? Do I accept that I will be a father to my sons but maybe never enjoy the loving company of a female partner again?
wow, lots of questions and too little time to address them all, plus I'm no guru.
Do NOT accept that you'll never get to enjoy the loving company of a female partner again. That part, I'm sure of.
[color:#000099]I don't know. I know they're out there and seem to want to be with me, but I don't feel an attraction to that. I don't mean I have lost the mojo to love a woman, it's just that I don't feel the desire to be with someone else.
Selfish/self preservation-- there is a fine line sometimes between the two. Look inward and deeply for your answers and try to avoid the self serving ones if you are not sure...err on the side of generosity if you can.
Yes
You can detach from the outcome, and detach from daily "results" without totally detaching IF you mean not loving her.
IOW, you can be the best man you can be and leave the results up to God, knowing you did your best
and letting go of the outcome...and still love your w....
you can swim to the other shore but you can't keep looking over your shoulder to see where she is or if she's following you. If she's too damaged to get better
or too sick to ever be a good wife to you, then you can say "in sickness and in health" and keep plowing- but if she gets better AND CHOOSES to mistreat you, that is a very different situation. [/color]
Mach said much the same thing to me. The more I take these gems out and examine them, the harder it is to get my bearings at the moment. I guess my W and I are going through the same things like that.
I love her and underdstand her sitch. I am dying inside if I stay attached, but can't see how to move on and detach without completelty moving on. My problem with absolutes I guess. Maybe I should just accept the pain and time whatever it will be and stop bitching about it?
Kelli called me last night back in the UK, and she is suffering just like me, the same way, and thinking about when her Dad died just like my Mom and I'm giving her all this loving advise. She asks me when do I love myself again?
If I was dead today and having my life review I would give my wife more time with this. I would do this for my sons too.
I feel sick...really
Be careful about your own EA with Kelli b/c it hurts your view of your w, whenever we are treated well by the opposite sex at the same time our own spouse neglects us'
I am very conscious of not falling into that trap. In fact I had to talk her out of it for herself. We are each working on our own sitches which are very similar and offering each other support as two lifelong friends will. I do admit this new element does give me pause for thought both because its from her specifically, but in a general sense of considering any OW. I do dwell here and there on her offer though. Even with this new twist to our relationship we have an excellent creative partnership. And when she did bring up the possibility of us creating a life together we did discuss it, but I never felt that I was in an EA with her. I don't feel less for my W because of Kelli. And once we established how we were going to go forward as friends and support both of us have been fine.
it gets dangerous. You of all people know this.
For now I am sending you prayers and support and HOPE...but the answer to your core question is
yes you get to be happy in this life time.
Do what it takes to get there. There is a reason Aristotle said "Happiness is a virtue". It does not "land" on us. WE have to create it.
