OK, so I'm pretty sure we all agree and know how this ends, if nothing changes.
What would be one or two things that, for you, would make the M at least more tolerable, if not better. I really want no more than three things. But please take whatever time you need to think about this.
It might be something like, H puts the toilet seat down every time, or H starts cooking veggie meals for me, or H plays with S in a way that S wants and does not hurt S.
OK, so I'm pretty sure we all agree and know how this ends, if nothing changes.
What would be one or two things that, for you, would make the M at least more tolerable, if not better. I really want no more than three things. But please take whatever time you need to think about this.
It might be something like, H puts the toilet seat down every time, or H starts cooking veggie meals for me, or H plays with S in a way that S wants and does not hurt S.
Two or three things...
I really am going to have to think about this. The problem is that the longer I remain in this state, the more comfortable it gets, and the harder it is for me to imagine anything else. And I've been in this state or some version of it for a l-o-n-g time.
While I'm thinking, I'd like to ask... can you tell me what difference does it make what the 3 things are? I can't change him anyway. And I can't relate it to DB'g at all.
While I'm thinking, I'd like to ask... can you tell me what difference does it make what the 3 things are? I can't change him anyway. And I can't relate it to DB'g at all.
You and probably 100 others who are reading this are likely wondering why... when DB tells us to focus on ourself, do I keep taking focus back to your H...
Here's the premise:
A WAS, including any number of other things, is likely thinking either: a) none of this is MY fault, anyhow, or b) I like myself the way I am and really don't feel that I need to make any changes.
I'm sure that a WAS could list any number of things that they would like to change in themselves. But what the are very likely unwilling to do, is change themselves to save the M.
Also, a LBS is often emotionally unstable and really needs to disconnect emotionally from the sitch. What appears quite clear is that a WAS is already VERY disconnected. Disconnected to the point that they might be unable to empathize with the LBS, at all. Or at least is severely resistant to empathize.
A person who is just getting into diving lessons doesn't jump off the 10M board right away. First, they dip their feet in the water near the 1M mark.
These three or so things I'm asking for, I want to get an idea of what a "better" M might look like. But rather than talking about family vacations, spending romantic evenings together, and other yucky stuff... I want to look at baby step things.
And then, we look at DBing approaches and see how changing yourself can change the M... how your changes in how you do things changes the dynamic of the M and ultimately leads to your H HAVING to change, because he can't keep doing what he's doing if things aren't the same.
Okay, so can you help me define those? I know you just gave examples for examples and not necessarily for them to meet my definition, but I don't even have a definition.
Putting the toilet seat down? I could care less. Veggie meals? Not appealing because of his lack of skill, and his not liking veggies makes a positive outcome unlikely. Playing with S? That's his loss and means I get to engage with S instead.
I KNOW I have a bad attitude. I KNOW it.
I think I'd love to hear from Accuray on this. He's got most of his M back on positive ground, yet there's still an issue with sex. I wonder, could he give just 2 or 3 things that would make his current sex life more tolerable? Knowing his W's heart isn't really changing, just her behavior? Is there actually something there that would help, besides the absolute bottom line of her finding him sexually attractive? But that wouldn't be a baby step.
I just feel like there are some core issues here that I don't know how to make a marriage work without. One of them is trust. Another is each of us being the top priority person in the other person's life (ie. if you had to jump in front of a bullet to save only one person, who would it be?) And I need to be able to be recognized as an independent human being, with thoughts and feelings and interests of my own, and that having a different thought/feeling/interest isn't my criticizing him. I don't have any of that.
Really, at this point, I can't get basic human courtesy and respect. Without that, I don't know how to CARE about anything else. It's like the guy who beats the cr@p out of his wife, and then brings her a bouquet of flowers. It's hard to appreciate the flowers when your eyes are swollen shut and your nose is broken.
I guess I'm a little concerned that I'm going to end up in the same sitch as Accuray. I'm afraid I'm going to go down an ugly road, with all the sacrifice and hard work it entails, only to find that I truly can't live without trust, that I truly can't play the devoted wife to a man that is devoted to his entire extended family first.
Especially when I can say right now that I'm pretty positive I can't.
Sure, if Accuray wants to chime in. Also, that's a great point. What are some things (your H or not) that you would absolutely want in your life, such as whipped cream in bed or at least one romantic night/weekend out every three months and yes, trust! What would be one thing that could help build back trust with your H?
And I hope you don't mind I let go a little for now. I think it's pretty well laid out and I'm going to be busy with my kids this weekend and there are many vets who might help you with the baby steps and changing yourself to change the M and that core DB stuff...
I think one of the most difficult question that comes up once someone is full into DB is... what if I do this and it doesn't work? What if we end up D anyhow, a year from now or five years from now?
I guess the real answer is, how much is your current M worth putting into? Are you prepared to give it one more year? Or do you just pack it in and try to start from scratch, hoping to find someone else that you might get to know, appreciate, trust, care for... love... again?
oh, and another thing. While you might be an "almost WAW", your sitch isn't a WAS/LBS situation, perhaps.
What you have is a volatile M in which no one has technically left the other. You are really here because you have a broke down marriage and you want to either make it better or survive or... make a more drastic choice.
The term Left Behind Spouse does presume there is a Walk Away Spouse. You might be neither. Your sitch is definitely "different" then many on this board, in that way.
I think I'm at the same stage as you, CV. I also don't care, and my H isn't mean or disrespectful. He does take me for granted, and does manipulate/control. In some ways, my H is very much like yours. I have spent 7 years after he wanted back into the M, trying to change me, work with my issues, GAL, and he has done nothing, that I have noticed. He hasn't discussed our issues, not addressed the lack of trust I have, we don't ML at all, he's generous with money, but he controls it. I moved him to the spare room last year. I also am planning on leaving ... just waiting to get the house sold.
Hearing about your honeymoon, made me tear up. As far as I'm concerned we never had one, because all his school friends were around. It sucked, because I didn't know them very well since he had moved from his hometown. And, I too, am an introvert ... I can tick off most of the points on that list you posted. I have wondered often through our M, why he married me. Still don't really know, and it's been 25 years. He used to tell me he loves me, but never acted it. I can only give advice with my own experience to go on, so if I were you, either get D'ed now, or try one last time to fix the M. It wasn't any fun having a room-mate who controlled everything all these years. If I had gone through with the D at the time of his EA, I would've been long down the road of getting my own life back. Independence is what I want now. And, my children will still have to go through the emotions of having their parents get D'ed. I stayed for my daughter who was 12, and I don't regret it per se, but I don't think I did her a favor. I might've found a new man or been a happier mom, and that would've been a good example to her. Nothing I can do now, but you can think about it, and maybe do it differently. Just a thought.
Good luck.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
