I'm seeing how I need to focus on my soul's journey, not depend on hers for my life. It's not easy. I kind of feel like I walking through the valley of the shadow of death. I'm very anxious, nervous, fearful but need to do it anyway, and have faith in the higher power.
^^^I think this could become a mantra for so many of us around here. Scary stuff to be sure, but the reward is beyond any bounty.
Me: 44 Bomb: 11/27/11 Divorced:6/12 Life goes on: 6/13
With that detachment, there is a peace that comes over you. It is like , you are able to breathe for the first time in months.
The small things should start coming to you as realizations as you reflect , instead of an unfulfilled expectation you are looking for.
Be aware of what is around you, be prepared for everything, expect nothing.
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I'm seeing how I need to focus on my soul's journey, not depend on hers for my life. It's not easy. I kind of feel like I walking through the valley of the shadow of death. I'm very anxious, nervous, fearful but need to do it anyway, and have faith in the higher power.
There is an excitement to that also. Knowing that you are finally taking charge of yourself, and you are living your definition of (almost) unconditional love. You are showing that now instead of taking that.
It is not about her actions or words that matter, it is YOUR actions and words that matter. It is about how you present yourself to the world that matters now.
It is when your head and your heart, are truly reconciled.
The more I focus on myself and my journey, the more I question what I'm doing. I guess I have to accept that my emotions are going to be wildly up and down as I walk this walk.
Maybe I shouldn't have a right to complain. There are so many people on this post whose spouses have left the home and/or D is imminent. Maybe I have no right to be upset. Maybe nobody has a right to be upset. Maybe hurt is necessary for growth.
I keep thinking that I have a right to be happy too. As I think in terms of how to live daily life, be fulfilled, and be open to happiness I find I'm getting angrier at the sitch.
Last night my W was out with her friend for dinner and my youngest and I were at home watching a movie. When it was over I was feeling like I do not feel like seeing her when she gets home. It's because its going to be all about her as everything is right now. So I figure I'll go to bed and read and choose not to be in the path of a sitch that will be completely one-sided.
Anyway, she gets home and decides to come into the room, sit on the bed and tell me everything in her day, her dinner, and showing me the photos she took using the technigues she learned in her photography class, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
That's nice in an of itself, but its in a unatural situation. I mean its 100% one-sided. I'm never asked about my life. If I bring anything up she might acknowledge it a bit but move on to her again. I even see this in our family functions. No matter who it is talking about whatever, the subject matter completely comes back to her, always. The psychiatrist said she is stuck at age eight and I see that. I've got her next to me in bed, a woman I haven't touched in a year, who hasn't given me a ounce of consideration for my life, doesn't seem to get it at all, and is totally threatened by my life if it appears in any way to be moving on from her.
I realize that I'm responding emotionally to her and that's not detachment. And I know I have a problem with thinking in absolutes. How do I not be attached when I live with her like this? I wonder if I'm actually enabling her to live this fantasy life by providing the road home, the financial support, the cheerleading, the home, the time and space. I do have many interesting things in my life so its not a matter of finding things to do for me. In fact it would be nice to slow down some.
How does one detach emotionally without just moving on? That's my problem with absolutes. I keep thinking back to my real Mom who lived and died by what I believe to be a samurai death. When my Dad left her I was ten and came to the US to live with her. She never remarried and had an incredible opportunity to do that. She had her flings but they were away fron the home so my brother and I didn't see them. She was only 16 yrs older than me so she was quite young at the time. The point I want to make is that she could and would never give up on my Dad and her, she would not let the hope for the M vows die. Then, while we were still kids she gets cancer and dies. She made a vow to see it through, and not give up on her M and the family. I saw her waste away day by day and scream in pain, and ultimately die alone but with her principles intact. So, as I live this life of being there for my W, and being there for my kids, my family, my employees, my friends, I wonder how does anyone detach without a 100% goodbye detachment from your S? What is selfish here? What is self preservation? What is sensible? Do I accept that I will be a father to my sons but maybe never enjoy the loving company of a female partner again?
I love her and underdstand her sitch. I am dying inside if I stay attached, but can't see how to move on and detach without completelty moving on. My problem with absolutes I guess. Maybe I should just accept the pain and time whatever it will be and stop bitching about it?
Kelli called me last night back in the UK, and she is suffering just like me, the same way, and thinking about when her Dad died just like my Mom and I'm giving her all this loving advise. She asks me when do I love myself again?
If I was dead today and having my life review I would give my wife more time with this. I would do this for my sons too.
Sorry you're going through a deep low! I've been feeling very similar lately, questioning everything. I can see that it's very much one-sided for me as well, and I keep thinking 'what about me'? I know it sounds selfish, but why don't we deserve someone who can at least try to do the same back? At least try?
I'm sorry to hear about your mom. Reading this, I think to myself "I don't want to die alone". I know some people don't need companions and are okay living on their own, but I like having a companion. For me, it makes it so much more worth living. I want that companion.
You've been DBing longer than I have, and I admire you for sticking with it and being strong. You've come a long way and have positive proof to show for. Though progress is moving at an extremely slow rate, it still is progress and it matters!
I'm in a hurry atm so I can't fully respond. First & foremost, I'll send you some big hugs for hanging in there as you have. ((((( )))))
ALSO here are a few questions so I don't have to review the whole thread. I recall your w having major baggage and issues that were pretty significant and that she's seeing a shrink. Is she addressing the issues or not?
Is there a diagnosis to her, from a doctor? You said someone said she's emotionally 8. What were they talking about and what was that based on?
If they are treating HER, what are they doing about THAT?
Does she have bi polar issues or borderline personality or abandonment (I'm sure you both have that)?
And btw, your own abandonment issues may give you the motivation to stick this out and that's great.....
OR it may make you stay longer than you should.
If given the choice between the two, I'd prefer having stayed a bit too long than quitting a bit too soon. But there is sometimes a fine line.
And I understand your desire to know if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
YOU could create that line if you give yourself an internal deadline for your m to improve or end...
but you've said there's so much progress lately and then I read this post and wonder what all of it means.
Can you recap?
Originally Posted By: rickb89
Shadow of the Valley of Death walk continues.
The more I focus on myself and my journey, the more I question what I'm doing. I guess I have to accept that my emotions are going to be wildly up and down as I walk this walk. YES^^^ Maybe I shouldn't have a right to complain. There are so many people on this post whose spouses have left the home and/or D is imminent. Maybe I have no right to be upset. Maybe nobody has a right to be upset. Maybe hurt is necessary for growth.
IDK if hurt is 'necessary for growth" but it makes the pain at least productive. OTherwise it's all negative. Frankly, I'd like to "learn a life lesson" by having a GREAT thing happen to me, like winning the lottery...
I keep thinking that I have a right to be happy too. As I think in terms of how to live daily life, be fulfilled, and be open to happiness I find I'm getting angrier at the sitch. YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT/DUTY TO BE HAPPY...how can you create that for yourself now? Why is it dependent on her?
Last night my W was out with her friend for dinner and my youngest and I were at home watching a movie. When it was over I was feeling like I do not feel like seeing her when she gets home. It's because its going to be all about her as everything is right now. So I figure I'll go to bed and read and choose not to be in the path of a sitch that will be completely one-sided.
Anyway, she gets home and decides to come into the room, sit on the bed and tell me everything in her day, her dinner, and showing me the photos she took using the technigues she learned in her photography class, and a whole bunch of other stuff. at least she's sharing with you. Rick It's not a contest. She's opening up and you are having conversations that don't end up in conflict. That's progress.
That's nice in an of itself, but its in a unatural situation. I mean its 100% one-sided. I'm never asked about my life. If I bring anything up she might acknowledge it a bit but move on to her again. I even see this in our family functions. No matter who it is talking about whatever, the subject matter completely comes back to her, always. The psychiatrist said she is stuck at age eight and I see that. I've got her next to me in bed, a woman I haven't touched in a year, who hasn't given me a ounce of consideration for my life, doesn't seem to get it at all, and is totally threatened by my life if it appears in any way to be moving on from her. this^^^ is what I was recalling. What's the shrink's PLAN for her treatment? The prognosis? IS the therapy all about rehashing the past? I often think that just relives and prolongs the traumatizing event.
What is she planning on DOING with her life now? What is she SAYING to you about the m?
I realize that I'm responding emotionally to her and that's not detachment. And I know I have a problem with thinking in absolutes. How do I not be attached when I live with her like this? I wonder if I'm actually enabling her to live this fantasy life by providing the road home, the financial support, the cheerleading, the home, the time and space. I do have many interesting things in my life so its not a matter of finding things to do for me. In fact it would be nice to slow down some.
in a sense, every WAS gets to cake eat for awhile. Otherwise we'd be divorced. I'm not saying to do this eternally.
But don't beat yourself up over it or think you are a "dumbass". And I do see why you'd get tired of it. I get that.
How does one detach emotionally without just moving on? That's my problem with absolutes. I keep thinking back to my real Mom who lived and died by what I believe to be a samurai death.
you mean heroic? or like a martyr? Is that all positive to you?
When my Dad left her I was ten and came to the US to live with her. She never remarried and had an incredible opportunity to do that. She had her flings but they were away fron the home so my brother and I didn't see them. She was only 16 yrs older than me so she was quite young at the time. The point I want to make is that she could and would never give up on my Dad and her, she would not let the hope for the M vows die. Then, while we were still kids she gets cancer and dies. She made a vow to see it through, and not give up on her M and the family. I saw her waste away day by day and scream in pain, and ultimately die alone but with her principles intact. ouch...(((( ))))
So, as I live this life of being there for my W, and being there for my kids, my family, my employees, my friends, I wonder how does anyone detach without a 100% goodbye detachment from your S? What is selfish here? What is self preservation? What is sensible? Do I accept that I will be a father to my sons but maybe never enjoy the loving company of a female partner again?
wow, lots of questions and too little time to address them all, plus I'm no guru.
Do NOT accept that you'll never get to enjoy the loving company of a female partner again. That part, I'm sure of.
Selfish/self preservation-- there is a fine line sometimes between the two. Look inward and deeply for your answers and try to avoid the self serving ones if you are not sure...err on the side of generosity if you can.
You can detach from the outcome, and detach from daily "results" without totally detaching IF you mean not loving her.
IOW, you can be the best man you can be and leave the results up to God, knowing you did your best
and letting go of the outcome...and still love your w....
you can swim to the other shore but you can't keep looking over your shoulder to see where she is or if she's following you. If she's too damaged to get better
or too sick to ever be a good wife to you, then you can say "in sickness and in health" and keep plowing- but if she gets better AND CHOOSES to mistreat you, that is a very different situation.
I love her and underdstand her sitch. I am dying inside if I stay attached, but can't see how to move on and detach without completelty moving on. My problem with absolutes I guess. Maybe I should just accept the pain and time whatever it will be and stop bitching about it?
Kelli called me last night back in the UK, and she is suffering just like me, the same way, and thinking about when her Dad died just like my Mom and I'm giving her all this loving advise. She asks me when do I love myself again?
If I was dead today and having my life review I would give my wife more time with this. I would do this for my sons too.
I feel sick...really
Be careful about your own EA with Kelli b/c it hurts your view of your w, whenever we are treated well by the opposite sex at the same time our own spouse neglects us'
it gets dangerous. You of all people know this.
For now I am sending you prayers and support and HOPE...but the answer to your core question is
yes you get to be happy in this life time.
Do what it takes to get there. There is a reason Aristotle said "Happiness is a virtue". It does not "land" on us. WE have to create it.
(( ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I know what you are going through, and it is some tough stuff buddy....
I'm gonna post something that was written by Truegritter, our very own Rainbow Skittle eatin, Fluffy Bunny , Unicorn riding, Brokeback Cowboy...
It was the first thing to come to mind when I read your post...
Thank you, Sir Gritter, for writing this....
And not taking me to court for re-publishing it....
: )
I think it applies to all LBS's and I will preface this by saying this comes from my own experience. If you want to know what that is. It is here on these boards and in my own threads.
I do not write this to suggest that it is the ONLY way. It was MY way and if it helps you then take it and use i.t I am happy to share it with you and ask that you pass along what was given to me, that I give to you today, if you find it has meaning and truth to you.
This tragedy and the choices of your spouse against you is probably the toughest thing you will ever have happen to you in your life. It is certainly a traumatic event to say the least because it is the destruction of your life and what you thought you could trust and believe in about love and sharing your life with someone.
When that belief and trust is shattered you have to feel and deal with its loss. You can go in any number of directions:
-run away -blame and get angry -you can beg or plead -you can try to coerce, control and punish
In the end you have to find your own answer and THAT Only comes from making your own choice.
Not because of what someone else did BUT in spite of it.
Choose to love in the face of all the anger, agony and pain. In spite of what you feel you are a victim of. In spite of how others may perceive you. In spite of your own self doubt.
Choose for YOU and you will find what it means to love another. You will find what it means to love yourself.
You will only get this awareness after standing through much pain. Constantly questioning yourself and your beliefs. Testing your fortitude.
Then you will emerge with the truth. The truth forged in a fire. Your own truth.
Then you will know the freedom and peace that comes from knowing that NO ONE can ever take that away from you.
Some of the tactics and boundaries we might employ, while they certainly are an expression of what you do not want in your life, they can also cause us to make choices BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE. We risk placing our self respect on the foundation of demanding someone else confirm us by either doing or not doing something. It makes it all too easy to lay the blame on the person choosing not to conform to our demands. You run the risk of not making your own choice for your own reasons. It relieves you of that responsibility. And you will not know your own truth because it has been written by someone else. It was written BECAUSE of someone else. When you STAND up for what you believe, in the face of this, it becomes clear that you are truly free from the consequences of the choices of other people. In the end love endures and does not fail. Finding that out though, is a hard way to go.
I can only say it is worth it
Your spouse has the journey to take as well. They are trying to find the answers to the same questions. They think it lies in another person or relationship. And they will find it or they won’t. Until they do their life, love and relationships will be broken. They, as we, will repeat the same mistakes until they learn this. Until they do the M is broken.
And you have no power over it. Your power and your salvation rest within yourself. So this is an opportunity to ask yourself:
Who am I?
What does love mean to me? Is it defined by its expression by another? Or how I choose to express it?
So do what you will and feel what you feel. The consequences and the failures only bring you closer to the truth IF you have the courage to keep stepping toward it.
Many obstacles will be put in your path to overcome:
I think you are right that trying to find this absolute detachment is impossible. When I have tried to be completely detached it has kind of worked the opposite for me and made me more upset by the the circumstances.
The fact is we are in situations where our S will always be a big part of our lives because of our children. As parents we also want what is best for our kids which we know to be a 2 parent home. So the idea of complete detachment I think is unrealistic.
For me rather than trying to detach completely I just try to live in the moment. This morning I was grateful that H came and walked with us to school. There were things I could have been annoyed about with him, like how checked out and self centered he was acting but I just tried to focus that we were spending time together.
So for me, I call it more living in the moment and living in today versus detaching. Regarding your one sided conversation with your W, I would try to appreciate her passion for photography and think, well today I cant share my side but maybe tomorrow will be that day.
Maybe detaching and living in the moment are two sides of the same coin but that is the perspective that is easier for me.
Also know that you are doing everything you can to help your W. For your children's sake you can not blame yourself for not being perfect, not perfectly detaching, not perfectly DBing. You are doing your best. You need to love yourself first. Your children will sense it if you blame yourself and live in a land of self pity.
I think you rock, rick. Hang in there
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
Sorry you're going through a deep low! I've been feeling very similar lately, questioning everything. I can see that it's very much one-sided for me as well, and I keep thinking 'what about me'? I know it sounds selfish, but why don't we deserve someone who can at least try to do the same back? At least try?
I not sure NH/Russia/Germany/Mom. I am working on me and part of that is me determining what is the extent of my M vow, how far/long do I go for her, and what I might need to do to live again. I'm not sure what to do. I'll keep going, pray and see what's what.
How's your son BTW? Hope his hockey is going well.
I'm sorry to hear about your mom. Reading this, I think to myself "I don't want to die alone". I know some people don't need companions and are okay living on their own, but I like having a companion. For me, it makes it so much more worth living. I want that companion.
Me too, although I considering if I can live a long time like this. That would be a father, individual, friend and some weird hybrid of father figure/husband, and celibate monk. It's ironic that I grew up steeped in the ways of the shaolin tradition and mixed with a western lifestyle and in the end may just be living it in the traditional role. Who knew?
You've been DBing longer than I have, and I admire you for sticking with it and being strong. You've come a long way and have positive proof to show for. Though progress is moving at an extremely slow rate, it still is progress and it matters!
You know, its true there is progress and actually quite a lot if I take the longer view. Thanks for helping me to feel better. Hope you're well!
Rick, hate it that you're so down. But you know what? I think you don't refill your tank. You are on this board, visiting everyone's thread and giving advice and encouragement. I have a feeling you do that IRL also. Am I right? Always making sure everyone else is OK but never yourself.
Why don't you take the weekend and just do things that are only for you? Whatever it is that fills your soul. Your W sill be fine without you for a day or so.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
