Yeah, even though you're not a newcomer, I think you might be better off on that forum because of the people there who are giving advice and commentary. You essentially have a WAH and I don't think you're going to fix that through sex at this point. It sounds like you first need to DB, get BF committed to the relationship, and then you can work on sexual issues.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I've read your postings here and on Surviving, and (from the perspective of a person who has survived a H's MLC--which is just a glorified depression), your BF sounds depressed. He may be on anti-depression meds, but studies show that they don't work for a surprising number of people. The sleeping a lot, the reduced sex drive and inability to orgasm, the complaining about everything, the total inability to connect with you or empathize with your feelings, the "selfish" focus on himself, the blaming everything on his partner, the apparent clarity with which he dissects your faults while re-writing history--they're all classic depression issues.
By the time you bought the lingerie and tried to attract his attention back, I doubt anything could have worked--the depression had taken too much of a hold. Plus, from his perspective, trying to catch his attention with the lingerie, when you yourself were cold and uncomfortable, must have seemed a little desperate--much like the left-behind spouse who suddenly makes all the changes the walk-away has wanted, and pleads for another chance.
You ask whether you should pursue him--it sounds to me as though that would just allow him to continue perceiving you as "the one with problems" in the relationship. The texting, invitations and we're-just-good-friends messages sound to me like attempts to portray himself as a good guy despite his choice to break up. As long as you play along, he can feel good that you're obviously just fine. If, however, you go dim and get on with being fabulous (because you definitely are!!), he will get a little space to, possibly, reconsider. However, as long as he remains depressed, he's unlikely to realize that it's him, not you until he has dealt with his issues. It is positive, though, that he is seeing a counsellor and trying to make progress in therapy.
I've been trying to remember--I believe you met R at a party given by another former DBer, who expressed concern about him as a potential partner. What was the nature of her concern?
What would you see an ideal sex life as looking like?
Definitely continuing with the dim. As much as possible lol. I texted back: I'm not really sure. He just said to drop by. He just texted me, OK. I thought I'd drop by for a bit. I didn't respond to that. My neighbor invited him, so I can't really uninvite him. But it does seem very odd to me that he wants to drive over. I have to wonder what else is behind it.
In some ways his depression now is a lot better than when he started the EMDR and wasn't on ADs. He'd come home from a session and go into the office, go to work, go back into the office. Finally on about the third day he'd emerge lol.
The Cymbalta seems to keep him from bottoming out, but it also reduces the highs. Definitely depression issues. Does make it difficult to deal with him and know what's really us and what's his issues.
Yes, met him at a former DBer's (in the sense that she R with her hubby and no longer posts) birthday party. She thought he really wasn't looking for a long-term relationship. He hadn't seriously dated anyone in the previous few years and didn't seem inclined to do so then, from her perspective.
I guess the reason I came over here was because I really don't feel the need to get the newcomers advice. I know the LRT, go dark/dim, be fabulous, GAL, etc etc etc. I'm not looking for advice on that so much as trying to wrap my head around the other stuff. Planning for if I can get him on board to work on this, what would be good approaches. There's very little aimed at the LD partner. Or if it is, it's under the assumption that the HD partner is still working on things.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
I think the problem is that it's generally the dissatisfied HD partners who show up here--LD partners generally only look for help after they're bombed and informed that their spouse is thinking of leaving/has found someone new, etc, and at that point there are far greater problems than drive issues.
I agree, you don't need advice for newcomers, but at the same time, sexual issues are difficult to work on without 2 willing partners, and from my experience, a depressed person is so wrapped up in his core FOO issues that he's not capable of working on a healthy relationship until he makes his peace with himself. While depressed, they lack a sense of identity from which to assess what their actual needs and desires are.
Since it's impossible to control another's healing timetable, the healthiest thing you can do is really to consider what sort of a sexual being you wish to grow into, work on your own communication skills, etc. Don't think of it in terms of "being the LD partner," just concentrate on YOU.
Ideal sex life... I'm happy with a couple times a week. Less than once a week and I start to get concerned. But I like to feel like there is that connectedness all the time. Little bits of flirting, he always used to pat my butt when we passed in the kitchen, that sort of stuff really gets me as I am definitely a physical touch person.
A lot more openness about what he's looking for. And apparently I need to reiterate a few things that I want. To digress for a moment, he made a comment during the ILYBNILWY conversation about how sometimes I only really give him access to my breasts. Ummm, we've had the conversation a couple times about how much I like that, I'm enjoying it and trying to keep you from moving away! He also said that gets annoyed I won't let him rub my inner thigh. One, would have been nice to know a while ago, and two, huh? He says it's a really erogenous zone. Umm okay, if you think so, maybe you should direct me there, but I'm gonna disagree there. He was stunned. It would have been a great conversation and kinda funny if it wasn't on the heels of the ILYBNILWY and all.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
Several times a week--many people wouldn't consider that LD (though of course HD & LD are completely relative concepts). The constant connectedness sounds good; did you also do things to contribute to that feeling?
Much of what you express is what he did/didn't do--but since we can only change ourselves, aren't there things you would change for your own satisfaction? Most importantly, then, the first thing you'd change in an ideal relationship is to increase the dialogue?
His complaints sound like fishing for reasons/rewriting the significance of past incidents, or at best as though he's blaming you for things he should have articulated more clearly at the time.
After a couple hours long conversation on Sunday night, he finally admitted that maybe he could have been a little more clear about some things. And he could have asked for clarification from me on things that he was confused about (it's posted on my main thread in Surviving). Yay for small victories LOL. He also said he's talk to his therapist about maybe trying another AD when I reiterated for the third time my concerns over the side effects. Problem is he apparently tried Zoloft, Prozac, and a couple others when he was in therapy previously and Cymbalta was by far the best for him.
Apparently I pick very HD people or something. XH told me that his affair was because 1-2 times a week wasn't enough to him (course, he never told me that). And when they first hooked up our sex life did not drop off at all (it sure did after I confronted him about it though!)
Problem is BF hit my love language spot on. He's touchy, cuddly, affectionate. In hindsight, I should have pushed more on some conversations. Maybe found another time to approach him about the 5LL stuff. Pushed a little more when I'd ask what he wanted and he's say "this is good" or "that's fine".
But I didn't really have any complaints other than his grumpiness, the side effects of his ADs, and then his withdrawal over the holidays. So I feel like he needed to take the initiative in bringing up these issues as I am not a good mind reader. If he thought these things were break-up worthy issues, then they are real issues, but I can't guess what they are. Maybe he finally gets that?
I did challenge him on why he didn't bring these things up. He said he'd done so in the past and didn't feel like doing so for a third/fourth time would bring about lasting change. And he thought it was my turn to bring them up. I asked him if he could understand that if he raised an issue, it was discussed, some changes were made, and the issue wasn't brought up for months, could he see why I would think everything was ok? He squirmed lol. Then he told me that if I'm upset or withdrawn and don't want to talk he assumes it is about him. *sigh* I told him that I assume the exact opposite. Especially when he's got a long list of things to whine about and I'm/we're not on it.
Course none of this really gets me anywhere as we've had conversations we should have had six months ago it now seems in hindsight, but I'm still by myself with just the dog to talk to lol.
He is the one initiating contact 99% of the time. And he was also the one initiating the conversation Sunday night. So I guess I am very dim, giving him space to miss me.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
So, w/o going all the way back to your beginning, you and your BF are how old?
I know you've been through a divorce. How about your BF? What is his past marital status?
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
Michelle, Your ex telling you he cheated because of insufficient sex was a lousy cop-out, and a way of trying to blame you for his mistakes. But I think R is trying to do the same thing, searching for justifications for leaving. As a result, it's hard to know how seriously his complaints should be taken. Still, hindsight tells you what you'd change, given another chance, doesn't it?
You say he has taken antidepressants and done therapy in the past--were his past issues resolved, or is he cycling through them again?
Dim sounds like a good plan for now. But it must be so hard when your LL were being met and it was suddenly all taken away. Hope the dog is really affectionate too?
