My sitch is like many of yours... here's the background info:
I'm 36, wife 35, married 11 years, together 17, sons 8 & 5, wife dropped the "I love you but" bomb on 1/25/12 and I did all of the usual things you aren't supposed to do for a couple days (begged, pleaded, cried, etc) and then decided that I wouldn't want to be with a person like that, so she certainly wouldn't want to either. I went looking for answers and I found this site, the DR book has been ordered and I've been trolling the forums trying to figure out how to get through this until I get the book and have more info.
My perspective: we've had a pretty good marriage until the last six months: we don't fight and argue much, we share work around the house and taking care of the boys (I'm on morning duty, she's on afternoon duty, etc), for much of our marriage I was on the road for work about 25% of the time, until I switched jobs about 4 years ago (don't know if this has anything to do with the issues). My wife is a very introvert person, doesn't talk a lot/hates to talk about her feelings/keeps everything inside, is affectionate some of the time (when I would ask for a hug, sometimes she would just rest her head on me, not a big bear hug), sex was a couple times per week, and we were busy with the stresses of life (work, kids, house, bills, etc). Last August I noticed a bunch of text messages on the cell phone bill to a number I didn't recognize, and asked her about it, "Oh it's just a co-worker." I trust and respect my wife, so I dropped it. In Oct, she was asleep and her phone beeped, so I checked it to make sure it wasn't anything important and it was the OM with a "good night honey, can't wait to see you tomorrow" text. So I checked the bill again (yes I know NOW not to do that) and there were 3-4 texts everyday. I think it is a EA not a PA, but I don't really know and I don't really care (it's a symptom, not a cause of the M problems). I haven't confronted her about the EA because 1) I think it will make her turtle up more than she does, and 2) I think if we fix the R issues, the EA will go away (the EA developed because she wasn't getting what she needed from her M to me).
Her perspective (all voiced post bomb drop): we never communicate (I was shocked coming from such an introvert because I always try to start convos and get 3 word answers to questions), there's no spark/romance/connection, she lived the life she thought she was supposed to instead of the life she wants and doesn't think she wants the job/marriage/house etc anymore. She says she is very confused and doesn't know what she wants anymore. She said she thinks she doesn't deserve the family and deserves to be alone (I told her no one deserves to be along, especially her). I asked her for some specifics of issues and one thing she mentioned is that a couple days per week (through-out the 11 year marriage, not just recently), I fall asleep on the couch and don't come upstairs to bed and that used to make her very upset and the last couple years she just stopped caring where I would sleep (we have different sleep schedules because she is up @ 4 and out of the house to work, and I normally get up @ 6), but she never mentioned this issue to me ever, in the last 11 years. I told her I could have easily changed how/when/where I go to sleep if I knew it was an issue. She said it was, but now she doesn't care if I sleep upstairs or downstairs because she doesn't feel the love for me anymore. She said I wasn't affectionate enough, and didn't do enough outside the house away from her with my other friends (again, not sure if this is related to how much time I used to be gone for work and now I'm home all the time). She doesn't want to have sex right now because she doesn't love me anymore (I told her I was fine with that, but that helps with the affection/connection issue).
Current steps: I bought the 5 love languages book and read it over the weekend and asked her to read it because it has helped me understand so much about me, her, and us and she said she will. I asked her for some time to make this work and she said she doesn't see how it can work because it hasn't for a couple years, but she was willing to try for our marriage and sons.
GALs: joined the Tues night men's basketball league, joined the local hiking club and hiking more on weekends, spending more time at the gym after work. 180s: (here's where I'm conflicted), the issues she mentioned (not enough affection, not sleeping in the bed, not communicating) seem to contradict some of what I've read on here (detaching, etc) so I'm not sure if I should be more affectionate (this is what I'm doing right now since she said it was an issue and is a 180 from how I was), telling her what I think of her, wrote her a love letter (which she really liked and appreciated), trying to spend more QT with her without the boys and talking (about life, feelings, not a lot about the R).
Any help, insight, support would be greatly appreciated. I love her and our family will all my heart and after reading the 5 love languages, I realized how much better it could have been for her all these years. I just want to keep the family together and make it a place where she can be happy and loved. Thanks
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
Learn them well-- as they are a life saving guide at times...
good luck, keep posting and here they are:
(I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I did.)
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Thanks for the responses... just knowing there is a place to go and discuss this is helpful, because I don't want to discuss it with our family/friends because I don't want her to think I'm trying to "get them on my side" (she hasn't used that phrase). The biggest issues I have right now are how do I detach and do the things I need to protect myself, when her biggest complaint has been that we don't communicate and I'm not affectionate enough. It seems the 180s (not start the conversations, etc) run counter to what she needs (or at least what she has needed in the past). If I don't start the conversations, she never will (because she's such an introvert), even the bomb, I had to pull it out from her because she didn't want to discuss it. She was sitting on the floor upset one night and I begged her to tell me what was bothering her so we could work it out together (I figured it was the OM sitch that was bothering her).
Every morning when she leaves for work, she comes to me (I don't pursue) and she gives me a kiss and a hug goodbye. Do I continue that or not? I'm trying to stop saying ILY when she gives me the kiss/hug goodbye, but I'm concerned that if I stop or become less affectionate, then she might get the wrong idea and withdraw even more.
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
As part of my GALs, last night was the first night of playing basketball in the men's basketball league. When I got home she asked if I killed myself (I have 2 bulging disks in my back and she told me before I joined that she was concerned I would hurt my back). I told her my back felt great after the game. I asked her if she was going to be awake when I got out of the shower. She said no she was tired and going to bed. But this morning when she left for work, she gave me a kiss goodbye and said she loved me (first time she's said those words in months). I know how much of what she says I'm supposed to believe (none), but it was nice to hear. Maybe the GAL is working?? She is reading 5 Love Languages, maybe something triggered yesterday?? Not getting my hopes up, but it was nice to hear this morning.
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
When the W dropped the bomb she said one of the main problems is we never talk and communicate (even though she is a very quiet, introverted person). Wed night and Thurs night after putting the boys to bed and she finished her work on the puter, I said, let's sit down and talk for a few minutes...nothing serious (we've had plenty of those over the last month), just about work, life, etc...
She said, "Do I have to?? You know how I hate talking about my feelings and stuff." I replied that she said one of the main issues was a lack of communication, and I think we should focus on it more, so it becomes more of a common routine for us: put the boys to bed, finish up work on the puter, and then sit down for 10-15 minutes and just talk, casually. She said, she would rather go to sleep.
So...
I don't want to pursue, so I dropped it. We don't talk, so I am trying to do a 180 and talk, and she doesn't want to... Do I keep bring it up every few days, or just tell her I'm here to talk whenever she wants, but I'm not going to bring it up anymore (I know she won't...I had to beg her to drop the bomb because she had been so upset for weeks).
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
I'm still working on the GAL... I got the W and her sister a spa day on Sunday and told her me and the boys were going hiking in the afternoon and we'd she her around dinner time.
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
Also, Wed morning when she gave me the goodbye kiss on the way out the door to work, I said ILY like I always do, and she said, ILY... first time I have heard those words from her in a couple months (she told me at the bomb drop that she wasn't going to use those words unless she meant it and she doesn't know what she wants or feels right now)... gave me some encouragement that maybe she is starting to see a path for us together... Didn't hear the words Th or Fr morning, but I'm not discouraged... as long as she sees a light at the end of the tunnel, however faint and distant, it's a step in the right direction...she's reading 5 Love Languages now, maybe that is helping her see...
M36 W35 S8 S5 M11 T17 ILYB Bomb: 01/25/12 Still living in the same house, sharing the same bed, trying to make it better
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly."
I'm not the greatest at advice but I can share with you that, when my h was going through his crisis, he was reaching back in time to find anything he could as an excuse to leave our M. I tend to fall asleep in the recliner, maybe gee, once a month.... I always have even when we were dating, engaged, then married! But he brought that up as a sticking point, as something that had bothered him. To him it was a sound reason for leaving me.
I did however listen to what he was telling me, and I began to quietly make changes on some things I felt needed to change. It did help.
As my h now puts it, back when he was going through his crisis, he was hoarding everything into his corner, that he possibly could in order to find reasons to leave. Even if it was some silly fight we had way back when in 2002.
My h told me every day he loved me throughout his EA and what he was going through.... I did see this as a sign of hope, however his moods ranged from saying "I love you" to having nothing to do with me, barely speaking to me, and being very cold with shark eyes. Sometimes within a matter of hours his moods varied.
Wishing you the best. This is a good place to be during this!
