MLC or Passive Aggressive or Narcissism

[sleeper]

[quote]"I might be making the biggest mistake of my life, but I've got to do this right now."[quote]

Mine railed at me once, "Don't you think I know what I'm risking?" At the time I thought she meant she was risking losing me if she changed her mind and I refused to take her back but now I think she was referring to financial liss. Yeah but I'm not quite sure how that driven to do this thing fits into the PA personality trait model.

[quote]"...how long it will be before (X's) PA behavior appears in the current marriage to (OP)"[quote]

I think it's already there (has been all along) in my X's marriage. They fought quite a bit during courtship. Off/on, etc. I honestly expected the engagement to fall through. Now that I'm convinced she's using him for financial gain I can see the motivation t make it work. X sits by me at Dr appointments for kids in front of OMH. He tried to get her to move by him at the last one. She refused. Kids think she's trying to make him jealous. Now I think it's just classic passive agressive behavior.

She's always been bossy from time to time but doesn't accept being bossed. If on tge phone she barks orders to get things she needs convo punctuated by urging, "quickly, quickly". OM irons her cloths for her and runs errands such as driving our kids places for her. His X wife was bipolar. Go figure.

[Kimmerz]

4myfam,
I've read that some MLc's can be "interrupted" and that they may start MLC and stop it, and then it starts again.

Im not sure how that works, perhaps life changes or events.I wish I could think of an archive to suggest for some more information on it. I've read that if the MLC is interrupted that when it starts up again, it's a doozie! Im beginning to see some truth to that.

I know my xh started in with typical MLC talk, or divorce delusional thinking, but then came back home. He then suffered his accident 3 months later and I honestly can say that his Mlc'ish behavior stopped dead in it's tracks. He was just happy to be alive and counted his blessings. He seemed to appreciate me, love me and the kids more and enjoyed our time together again. About 6 months after the accident I noticed he started having these angry outbursts. That never was the norm for him, ever. Then about a year after the accident he went MLC traits again.He spent another year hating me, telling me he was going to leave when he got his money, etc. Everything was my fault, I found a laundry list of all the the reasons he wanted to leave me. Just anger, anger, frustration. All he could say was he just wanted to be happy. He left rather unexpectedly and stayed with the OW he's with now for 2 days, and then came back crying wanting to try again. My head was spinning, I didn't understand WTH was going on. He then said he wanted to try and work on us and that he just knew he needed to be home. Then when he left 9 months ago he said the only real reason he came home the last time was cause he missed the kids. Im still questioning if his head injury has something to do with this. It might, but not entirely I know that.

Nothing they do makes sense. I agree that the first easy target is the next victum and it's very quick when it happens, if it wasn't already in the works in the first place.

[kml]

Im still questioning if his head injury has something to do with this.

Ummmm....yes.

The incidence of depression goes way up with head injuries. And when someone is depressed, they look around to see "why" they're unhappy - and who do they see? You!

They then become convinced that they COULD be happy if only they changed their circumstances. Like an animal in a trap, they'll chew off their own leg to get away from what they think is the source of their depression.

Of course, the temporary dopamine "high" they get from an affair or from the novelty of the change briefly makes them feel better - but their depression will settle back in sooner or later - because you really aren't the cause.

[beatrice]

My xh is stuck in an endless round of MLC behaviour. The first OW left the scene gradually [took about 6 years for her to totally exit] although it broke up many many times, and I would say that for at least two years it was hardly any sort of relatonship. Simply a distraction from his issues.

I think it was no coincidence that he broke up finally shortly after our divorce became final. [The divorce took forever] He now has another OW. I don't know the circumstances, and whether she overlapped with OW1 or simply he went straight on to OW2. nowing him he had OW2 lined up first. I do know he didn't have anytime on his own, Perish the thought! and in some ways it is as if he is starting the MLC all over again. He went back to meanness and spewing, and being even weirder than his MLC 'norm'. He appeared at one point to be working through the crisis slowly and then got stuck and 'decided' to do it all over again.

I don't know, it must have been so much fun first time around. I am truly sorry for him, but recognise that there really is nothing we can do. This whole thing is nothing to do with us, and while DBing helps us to deal with their behaviours, it does not imho, touch MLC which is something way outside a marriage breakdown. It just looks like it initially.

[job]

Kimmerz,
Yes, it is true that if the mlcer's crisis is interrupted along the way, the second time around will be worse. In fact, if any of the life transitions are interrupted they will be far more extreme when they pick up where they left off. Examples of interruptions that may temporarily interrupt the crisis: illnesses susch as cancer, heart attack, stroke, almost killed in a car accident, friend dies suddenly, etc. We can also interrupt their crisis by some of the things that we say or do, for example, walking away and leaving them cold turkey, becoming involved w/someone else and the ultimate, remarrying. Not all of the mlcers will react to the above examples, those that are not in an extreme state very well could be interrupted.

If you go to the mlc archives and do a search, you may find some postings that we had a few years ago on the subject. Back approximately 10-11 years ago, we had a wonderful lady posting by the name of Patience. Unfortunately, her illness may have interrupted her h, but eventually, they were divorced because of his behavior.

It is best to allow them to go through the complete transitions in life as well as the mlc. No one wants any of them to get stuck.

[4myfamily]

Hi Snodderly, I would appreciate your thoughts

When my wife had her affair 4 years ago it read exactly like MLC ,bomb etc etc Following all the advice on MLC worked and she touched on some childhood issues at the time but never dealt with them nor moved on. 3 years plus of DBing really was nothing more than a sticking plaster.

This time round she has run and has an OM, if it is MLC she is back in replay.

Personally I think she has an avoidant dismissive type personality. I am not convinced she will ever move through all the cycles of MLC. I think she recognizes the childhood issues but says 'do not try to fix me I am happy as I am'. She looks 10 years older and has lost a lot of weight in the last 6 weeks.

True to form after moving out she has latched onto the first available man. Replay or a personality disorder? Or both.

Certainly this time she is more determined to run and end things.

The replay OP/Affair is usually about halfway through the cycle would it take another 4 years to complete?

[job]

Sounds to me like your wife "stalled" for a bit. Did something happen during the period between the first affair and now?

Generally the PA/conflict avoidant personalities go hand in hand and most of your mlcers are conflict avoiders. She may be aware of the childhood issues on some level, but it sounds to me like she is reliving a time in her life when things in upheaval. Do you know much about her parents?

I would say that she is both in replay and the PA disorder. It will take as long as it takes for her to work through her crisis. It could be a short one, but I think it's going to take her quite a while to work through it because she didn't address her issues 4 years ago and is still running.

[4myfamily]

Thanks Snodderly,

I cannot think of anything that happened, no major crisis following the affair. She briefly came back with greater love than before but then started a full time job and lots of other activities as well. I thought it was possibly self esteem issues. But with hindsight there was also possibly a large element of distancing. She has never really apologized for the first affair other than 'I am sorry I really regret it'.

Her father was rejected by his own father and as I understand it brought up by relatives. He was a controlling man and at times very angry. He treated his family as his possessions.

Her mother is to quote my SIL, her own daughter 'the vainest person I have ever met'. As far as I can tell she could not cope with one child but had 3. My SIL said she was brought up by her father as mother could not cope.

Both daughters left home ASAP and started relationships with pretty much the first man who came along. SIL got married at 18 without telling the family, the marriage did not last. All three exhibit pretty much standard PA behaviors. My W was in a teenage relationship and got pregnant , possibly to seal the deal. Her family coerced her into an abortion. This is something she will not discuss,ever. However when we married she was very eager to have children. I am not sure she is securely attached to her own children. From what I understand this could be standard psychology following a 'forced' termination.

I don't think my W is capable of a secure attachment and seems incapable of honesty in relationships. She withholds or distorts the truth to achieve what she wants and does not see the harm in that. She has just started a relationship with OM, again the first man who came along, who divorced his own wife for her adultery. W did not tell him about her affair 4 years ago, my son who is very angry with my W has just put him straight on this in no uncertain terms.

For myself I think it is time for me to move on and both my sons who live with me are supportive of this. I think we all find my W a very destructive element in our lives.

I think and hope they know that my love for them is unconditional, however I do feel some guilt in not continuing to DB and follow the recipe for success in dealing with MLC and trying once again to keep us altogether.

I am about to file for D.

[AntoniaB]

I just wanted to comment on the last thing you said--about feeling some guilt about not continuing to DB and trying to "follow the recipe for success in dealing with MLC."

The sad truth is that while DBing has many great points in terms of teaching you detachment and backing off from marital (or even other) issues where your instinct is to control and instead, you relinquish control, there seem to be very few marriages that come back together after a truly hardcore MLC.

I have always looked at DBing when MLC is involved as a "recipe for success" if the goal was for me to survive intact emotionally after the fallout. If the goal was to "bust the divorce" (initially it was for me but then my goal had to change) then I guess I'd be calling myself a failure right now, but I am not.

I could not survive emotionally if my XH was off with OW trying to decide between the two of us, so I gave him the ultimatum, return to the marriage and leave her, or file for divorce. Eventually, he filed, and I did nothing. I'm in a state where I don't need to agree to his filing, and I also had no grounds to fight him. Had I pleaded with the judge that I wanted to take him back, I was told the judge that the fact that we disagreed on him coming back alone would be seen as "irreconcilable differences" and the divorce would have happened regardless.

The only way I could have my own self-respect was if I did not tolerate his affair while I was still married to him, so I forced his hand, which was not much different from filing on my own.

To be very honest with you, I have one regret, and it is that I did not do the filing myself. The entire reason I did not file was a tactic. I thought if I hung low long enough, that he'd come to his senses. I thought if I held to "I don't want to divorce you" that even after he filed, his rel. with OW would go south and in the 11th hour, he'd run back. It didn't happen.

Now I wish I'd been the one to file. I'm not saying at all this is what I think others should do, but it's what I personally feel after 19 months post-bomb and almost 3 years post-his MLC beginnings.

I still love him. I always will. Were he and I to meet years down the road and he to have finally faced his inner demons instead of running away from them, and were we to still have anything in common, and were we both to be single, would I consider a reconciliation? You bet I would.

But honestly, the only way for me to maintain any level of confidence and self-respect in my own eyes was to put my foot down. He had a million chances to NOT divorce me, and he didnt' take any of them. And on top of that, I still feel I have "DBed" him...why? Because this is what he wanted. He wanted to be free of the marriage so he could pursue OW and have a committed relationship with her. So be it. I let him go. I am not in his life in any way, shape, or form. We have no contact. If he does contact me, I am kind and cordial. But that's it. He has what he says he wanted. I did not stand in his way.

Sometimes the only option left that keeps us sane and protects our own selves and our families is to walk away with dignity and grace. If we are meant to be with these people years down the road, it will happen after we have both learned to be different and better people.

[4myfamily]

Hi AntoniaB,

Thanks for the great reply, it makes alot of sense.

I have just had a pleaasnt meeting with W, first hug and kiss on the cheek for a long time and got the ILYBNILWY sppech as per four years ago. (First bomb and ILYBNILWY in January 08).

W is discussing stuff from her childhood, teenage years with my son that she refuses to discuss with me and apparently opening up like never before. Heavy burden for an 18 year old but he is the nicest person I have ever had contact with, bar none. Very very proud of him.

Will still fill in the paperwork though.

Thanks Antonia