Sleeper, Everyone goes through several or more "life" transitions as they age. However, those individuals who have personality disorders or "learned" behaviors tend to go to the exteme and completely flip out. The ones that have flipped tend to have some major unresolved issues that were never addressed properly when they were children. They never learned how to deal w/their emotional state as children. They learned to stuff things down so that they wouldn't get punished for acting out. The parents or authority figures never paid any attention to how they got "even" w/them along the way. The authority figures may have thought that they were lazy, stupid, etc. At least my xh's parents had thoughts of this nature about him. In fact, my mil told me that xh didn't like for anyone to ask him or tell him to do something. Her observation was very spot on. He would sabotage whatever he was suppose to be doing if it involved me, the home or his job. I can bet my last dollar, if what he was working on was for him and his interests, the work would be perfect, no screw ups.
Unfortunately, we the spouses, are not aware of what may have happened during their childhoods and they are not apt to share those things w/us during our time as spouses. When the "stuff" bubbles to the surface and the triggers are set off, we become the targets for all of their spew. In many instances, the spewing is not actually directed toward us, but we become the substitutes for those they wished they had spewed at years ago.
Spewing isn't just at us, but they do it to anyone and everyone that happens to cross their paths at the time. They are ticking time bombs. I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal w/them. Until you have lived with a conflict avoider/PA, personality, you just won't get it.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wow, the more everyone posts the more one bell after another goes off in my head. And Im reminded again that I wasn't the crazy one, that this man I spent half my life with is alot worse than I thought he was.
"The few times she did apologize for something extreme like throwing something or hitting me she'd say, "I'm sorry for my behavior". I think this was a deflection as she wasn't responsible, it was her "behavior" that was at fault. She couldn't even own her own actions. The ultimate was when she began calling me "passive agressive" when I avoided contact with her after separation cause she was abusive. NO apollogy for her abuse but criticical of my actions in response to the abuse."
I have run into this several times during the marriage and even separation. Our reactions and standing up for ourselves from the abusive PA behavior always result in yet another way for them to find a way to grind us into the ground. My xh refused to speak to me for months. Then he hurt my daughter terribly by trying to cram OW down her throat. I had words for him and they were short and they were rude and I didn't care. Later down the road, I made a comment to him about how I knew he hated me, but he needed to grow up and speak to me in regards to scheduling if he wanted the kids to actually come and visit him. His response was that he didn't want to communicate with me for being rude to him the evening he had our 12 year old in hysterical tears. Excuse me? Look at their logic? It's ok to be classic PA and not speak to us, and give us the silent treatment. Then they forget about it, and act as if nothing happened. Then they pull some other stunt to hurt the family. We say "ouch" but how dare us say anything? How dare we disrespect them?
Im to the point I just don't care anymore. This thread came just in the knick of time because I have a very strong hunch that xh may be wanting to strike something up on the side with me.Had I not had this wonderful eye opener I'd be falling for it hook line and sinker. I may be wrong, but I wouldn't put anything past him.Unfortuneatly I know this man very well, and have had alot of time to connect the dots even more over the alst 9 months. I've been to this rodeo before. Be extra friendly with wife while he's got OW in the background. Is it cheating on your girlfriend when you're extra friendly with your wife? Gee.....
He can also use the legitiamte excuse of " all I was doing is keeping in contact for the kids sake". Uh huh. Yes his other reason for being inappropriate when this all started was that he didn't know how to break up with someone.
"It would explain to some extent how he blamed my "strong personality" for his unhappiness. Don't read that as bossy....I was never bossy and he had all the freedom in the world to come and go as he pleased. Ironic, really, and truly bizarre. And a perfect storm for MLC."
Thank you so much for sharing that GNW....That is the line I was given when xh first left. " You're so controlling". For the life of me I couldn't see what he was talking about! He made every possible attempt to avoid responsibility. I had to pay the bills, so I had to ask for money. But to him that's me taking all his money and he must be financially strapped to me the rest of his life and there is no escape. He has always either left things undone, things that needed tended to, like bills. He'd ask my opinion about things, ask me to do things, always placing things in my hands. I would step up to the plate, but he then saw this as controlling.
XH was not asked to do anything unless it just had to be done. He sat in his corner doing what he wanted all the time. I took care of everything.
Now I realize the damage I did to myself and the co dependent relationship I had developed because of this dynamic. I honestly believed if I did everything he wanted he'd love me back. After a while I realized nothing I did changed his behavior towards me.
What even frustrates me even more is that I consistently have to keep minimal contact with him...more than ususal. His lovely work schedule changes every 5 days. No set days off, so we can't just mark off every other Saturday and Sunday and let it be.
Im still working through the hurt that's been caused for me through this. But I do accept what he is, and also accept that being with him would never be a normal relationship. That can't ever be normal because PA is very abnormal. It still saddens me, for we did have several really good years for a while. But the PA was still there, just not so prominent. He was much easier to appease many years ago. However I strongly feel he grew jealous of the kids, and had no concept that his behavior had everything to do with the marital break down. Sorry, if you reject your wife and kids at every oppurtunity given for connection, don't place blame when the kids and wife go on their own way and ignore the silent treatment tantrums.
"I'm not bipolar" (I never said she was. She said this outta the blue)
"OM and I are gonna stay married for a long time" (people don't marry til death do them part any longer?)
"This isn't about OM" (I agree. Everything is about her)
"Fear is the mind-killer" Muad'Dib Me 53, XW 44, DD 14, DS 12 Bomb and OM 12/15/06 Separated 01/02/07 Divorced 05/13/08 X married OM(OMH) 08/2009 Married 06/09/13
Here's another prime example of PA behavior: one week prior to my birthday, my xh would deliberately make a point of doing something to destroy my special day. It never failed. My mother would ask him what he was planning to purchase me for my birthday and his comment would always be "I don't know, haven't given it much thought". My mother would advise him that he better get moving as he only had a day left to do something. She would point out how I always ensured that he had a happy birthday and would purchase him whatever he had expressed an interest in at that time. He was the same way with Christmas, but my birthday appeared to be the thorn in his side.
They are so cunning, controlling and manipulative in a way that you never think about it until you've educated yourself on PA behavior. As far as I am aware, his brother and parents were not like this. They were very open with their thoughts/emotions. My xh was always so quiet and you couldn't read him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I've noticed that xh has been rude to his mother the past few years, still complaining to her about things she did when he was a kid.
For example: Husband used to spend summers with the grandparents away from his mother. One summer, his mother was leaving his step dad. It was up to her to pack all of his room, get rid of his pets, and to move it all by herself. She was moving a very long distance.
Apparently she got confused and got rid of some toys that husband didn't want her to get rid of. I have seen him give her guilt trip after guilt trip all our married life over this. 2 thanksgivings ago she did this. She looked at me and said " what is his problem! When is he going to let this go? How many times do I have to apologize to him?" I was so embarassed.
Last Christmas MIL gave xh a 400.00 saw that was given to her by a friend but she had no use for it. It was new in the box. M I L very tight with money so she didn't have alot to spend for new gifts. I remember xh jealous of this saw.
I guess this Christmas she gave him a collectible ornament and his comment was " gee is this the gift that still keeps on giving like last year?" MIL was hurt.
I was the sperm donor. Her bio click was tickig and she wanted children from the moment we were wed (preg 5 months later).
This sounds very familiar married in May, Pregnant by November I think that is 5 months. W was desperate to get pregnant, it got very scientific using thermometers etc. At the time I found it quirky and was touched that this women really wanted to have children with me. As a mother again she was text-book in dealing with their physical needs but never seemed to connect emotionally. There were times when it seemed she could not tell if they were in pain or discomfort. W never really seemed to empathize when the were upset or unhappy. Later on of course she was happy just to walk away from her kids?
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When I look back she was always getting interested in a new activity, project, a diversion that didn't last. Hobbies, remodeling, karate, oil painting, children, learning a musical instrument, writing an autobiography (narcisistic?) not sticking with or finishing anything
I think as with my W these are possibly things to try and find an external source of happiness 'if only.......I would be happy. and also means of putting distance between us. I now think having children falls into the same category, but also a means (successful in my case) of sealing the deal.
With hindsight I should have looked closer at the family of origin.
With regards family of origin to quote my SIL their mother is 'the vainest person I know'. Even in her seventies obsessed by her appearance, Always need needs to be the center of attention. Her father was rejected by his own father and was brought up by relatives. He looked upon his family as his possessions. He was a very controlling and at times angry man. Her mother could not cope with one child but had three.
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She fills a need of his. I think that's what we are to them. People who fill a need at a particular time to be discarded and replaced as needs change.
All her family use the word my a lot as in my husband/wife, my son (not using his name), my (not our) house, my (not Our) bedroom. Sometimes it is like you don't exist as an individual or part of a couple.
'The passive aggressive objectifies the object of their desire. You are to be used as a means to an end. Your only value is to feed his/her own emotional needs. You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs but as an extension of him/her. They care for you the way they care for a favorite chair. You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs.'
None of W's siblings have reached their potential. BIL (a fifty year old child) has married a nice but insecure lady, who he treats with a total lack of respect. SILs husband known for his angry crazy outbursts!
All sounds depressingly familiar. I just wonder what damage has been done to my own children?
Spewing isn't just at us.....everyone that happens to cross their paths at the time.[quote]
The business employed about 12 people at bomb. Within 6 months 6-7 employees quit. During that time, when I thougt I might reach her, I told X her behavior wasn't normal and cited the fact she had "run 6-7 employees away" (my words) as proof things weren't right with her.
Her response was, "Oh! Do you know how that makes me feel ?!?!?"
It was all about her. How she felt. If she felt bad it was my fault. N regard for the half dozen employees who decided they would be better off looking for employment elsewhere than suffer her spew. No responsibility as to what effect her spew might have on the business or her professional reputation.
What surprises me is that the OP's suffer through this kind of behavior and stick around.
"Fear is the mind-killer" Muad'Dib Me 53, XW 44, DD 14, DS 12 Bomb and OM 12/15/06 Separated 01/02/07 Divorced 05/13/08 X married OM(OMH) 08/2009 Married 06/09/13
yes I agree seeking the OP that hook up with these WAS are just as messed up.
Logically thinking, what sort of emotionally healthy, self respecting person is going to jump into an affair with a married person, even if the marriage is legitiamately falling apart?
What kind of emotionally healthy and self respecting person is going to jump into a relationship after WAS immediately just left their spouse and family and be the first rebounder?
I mean unless theres an angenda. Perhaps some OP prey on rebounders in order to get their needs taken care of and when everything dies down, move on to someone else.
What surprises me is that the OPs suffer through this kind of behaviour and stick around
It seems to be that the PA builds a whole life around deviousness, lies and deception, they are very, very manipulative. Took me 20+years to work out what she was up to. They probably do not show a lot of the behaviours until the OP is fully committed. Then for the PA the fun can begin.
