W racing to finish line - do I bring up OM?

[BadLuck]

update on my situation - W filed yesterday (clearly didn't care that I asked her to wait).

I have 30 days to respond, so very limited in what I can do.

They say DB'ing doesn't work when there is an OM involved...not that I have been doing a very good job of it, but without kids, we have very little contact anyways...plus she's always lying about things so I never know the truth anyway.

I was thinking about taking a slightly different approach. Do you think it would help to call the OM (he works with my W, but is far more senior to her in position) and basically say I know what's going on and I can report it to HR if you continue what you are doing and let him panic as I'm sure he wouldn't like this.

Or should I mention to W, when I meet up with her, listen, I think it's time to be honest...I know about OM and as 25 alluded to, basically say I realize my role in why she might have felt like I was absent and why she would do that.

Or, I could go to OM's family and e-mail them (OM's sister works with W and OM, but just in a different department).

As people have brought up in the past, "what is my objective from this?" It is to create a situation where it is not so easy to maintain this relationship and make it uncomfortable for OM such that the dynamic might change. If he is aware that I could go to HR or that his sister knows (or even parents if I chose), I'm not so sure that would bring them closer as they would then know that the cat's out of the bag.

I just don't see me doing LRT or going dark at this point could help anything as there is no reason for us to have contact and then when it's signed, they can run off into the distance and leave me looking like a fool. While I have shown signs of anger, or punitive actions, this is one piece of information that I have been very careful with. I could have told all of her friends, co-workers, etc. a long time ago when I found out who this person was, but I didn't. W knows I know of an OM, but she has denied it and last we talked about it, I at that point didn't know who it was, but now do.

Worst case scenario, my W is upset and OM is upset, but not really much to lose at this point.

Again, this would be via a phone call or e-mail. I don't plan on physically confronting anyone.

I know, this is not conventional DB'ing, but I really believe DB'ing is also difficult when you don't have kids or any reason to connect on a regular basis.

Any thoughts or 2x4s?? While you can fault me for anything I've done to date, I just need something to break up this trajectory and fog.

[Crimson]

BL - your situation is quite different than mine so I am speaking from a position I have not experienced. However, I DO understand the anger and need to feel vindicated to some degree. It's a human emotional reflex. That said, and I am sure you have heard this here before - tread lightly here. By reaching out to OM.HR or worse yet, OM's family you run a very high risk of coming across unstable yourself. You DO NOT want this. This matter is between you and your W, and that is probably the best place to keep it. If you need to say something, follow 25's advice. Don't drag others into this situation - they probably do not want to touch it.

Furthermore, and I think this was in one of the books, you going on the offensive to some degree could further galvonize the relationship between W and OM. How? By creating an "us against the world" dynamic in which they believe "love will conquer all".

Like I said intially, our situations are very different - but you need to take a step outside of yourself and do your best to look at this objectively (hard to do, I know). Many times, and I have found this to be true for myself, initial gut reactions based off of emotions tend to drive us in the opposite direction of where we REALLY want to go. That is what is so d@mn hard about DBing....it asks you to do the opposite of what you normally would do....almost all of the time! But it does get easier eventually - it did for me.

[BadLuck]

Thanks Crimson - I agree, and while my past may indicate otherwise, this isn't trying to get revenge (...at least consciously), but more to shake things up as the current trajectory is D.

There is a person in a position of power where my W works (he is a Director and she is an analyst basically) who was texting her 1000 times per month while we were together for over a year until I figured it out. I feel that I am entitled to call him out in a forceful, non-threatening phone call that I know what he has been doing, I have records of it and I'm sure that he would not people at work to know.

Again just trying to change the dynamic as I'm basically being played like a fool and she's already filed so what is there to lose?

I do realize that OM did not make a vow or commitment to me though, so as you suggested, I will bring it up with W and tell her that while I own my contributions to this, I believe that this is something that should be addressed as well. I will do it in a non-angry and non-judgmental fashion.

I realize that OM is a symptom, not the problem...but the symptom certain exacerbated the problem.

also, as a side note, best of luck with your sitch. I am incredibly happy that you seem to be on a better path than most on this board.

[MrBond]

Just my 2 cents but it seems like since you don't have your W to communicate with any more your attention is now focused on the OM. Since she filed already and you told her that you didn't want to communicate with her any more accept through lawyers, all you're going to do is dig yourself into a deeper hole.

"Again just trying to change the dynamic "

I don't think you realize that you haven't changed the dynamic. Everything you've been attempting so far has been destructive. This is going to keep that downward spiral. Maybe you had a window before, but not now. I agree that your actions are going to push them closer together. They are both going to see you as the enemy and you're going to give them that "my enemy is your enemy" mentality.

Stick to healing yourself first. You haven't done that yet and still have alot of anger and revenge in you.

[Crimson]

Agree with Bond. I guess I would ask this question of you - what is your objective? Is it to save your M? If that is the case, and I am not being judgmental here, I don't think you are moving yourself any closer to that by the actions you are contemplating.

I am new to this so I am by no means in a place to direct others - but one of the best pieces of advice that I got (maybe from Sandi2?) was to ask yourself before you do ANYTHING that would impact your W or situation "does this get me closer to what my goal is?" - if the answer is "no" - abort!

Just food for thought, man. Stay strong.

Crimson

[BadLuck]

Thanks for your thoughts. Again, these are a lot of things that I am just "thinking" about. I haven't done anything like reach out to OM and tell him to back off or call W and tell her that I'm going to out them. In fact, I've known about OM for a while, but haven't made him the focus in conversations with W, and have only tried to explain to her how I've contributed as of late.

Still, her actions have been very strange (i.e., a lot of lying, excuses not to meet, etc.). Granted, I think these stemmed from the knowledge in the back of her mind that I know something that she doesn't want me to know about, and easier to ignore.

I'd be curious to get your opinions on this, but I feel there is a lot of tenseness because that is a big piece that is not in the open (and hasn't been for the last five months since she moved out). Crimson, my objective is to save my M, but I don't think its vindictive to bring this up in a productive manner. As 25 alluded to earlier, my objective would be to say, listen, I know who it is, I get it, and maybe now we can speak openly about how my actions may have led you to find emotional attachment somewhere else, and at that point would we be able to have an open conversation. I do realize that OM is NOT the issue and that I need to work on myself, but I am thinking that at least talking about it like two adults and not hiding behind it may lead to some real dialogue instead of superficial dialogue where I validate when she says "I just felt like we were friends and that you didn't treat me like I should have been treated". Sure, I suppose it would make W a little more uneasy for her to know that I know who this person is, but is that necessarily a bad thing? As 25 has mentioned in the past, she doesn't feel safe and needs to feel safe. I think with both of us ignoring this, there is no way for her to truly feel safe because there is this unspoken piece that she is probably scared to get out. If address it positively, maybe then that could be a 180 where I don't fly off of the handle, but instead discuss it in a way that my W would never expect.

Again, these are my thoughts, but feel free to disagree because I do realize that my instincts are often not right.

Thanks again.

[Oneeleven]

BL:
I wanted to share this to give a little 'food for thought'.

When I first found an inappropriate, romantic-laced, message from POW to my SO, I emailed him and accused him of having an affair (right away - didn't ask, but TOLD him I knew) and I found her on FB and sent her a message as well.

This lady is one that his is deployed with overseas ATM.

I wasn't horribly mean to her. I just told her who I was and what my relationship to P was. I then told her that although I wasn't sure of the nature of hers and P's relationship, that I guessed from the sounds of the message I saw, it wouldn't be a R that I would approve of. I told her that although it appeared as P's and my R was now over to be careful as he cheated on me and a leopard doesn't change his spots.

Well I caught up with an old friend recently and told her of this interaction. I told friend that POW probably hasn't gotten the message on FB as since we were not "friends" on the ALT, the message went to her 'other' folder, which means she most likely hasn't gotten it.

And you know what? I am SO RELIEVED!! I wish so much I could take BACK that message now. Even though I too highly doubt my SO and I are going to reconcile, that message gets me absolutely no where. And if read, would do nothing to help my cause, or make me feel better, or I doubt it would even make things 'difficult' for her and my SO either.

And a little more food for thought... my friend who I told had an interesting point.

Say that the POW in my sitch *HAS* already read this message. And maybe she couldn't *care less*. Maybe she already knew...


So you say part of the reason you want to do one of the things listed is so you aren't being left behind like a fool? Its quite possible that everyone already *knows* that your W is with this man. Who knows?

But whether you recon or if you don't, confronting OM, or anyone involved with OM, does nothing for your case either way.

IMO of course

I am sorry to hear she filed and sorry for your obvious pain and frustration

[Grmpy_Mnky]

BL first off so sorry you are where you are. My wife too is fast-tracking our D. No kids here either so I seldom have contact with her. Its easy for me to say this because I am not in your sitch. I would make peace with this and let her go for now. On my thread I received some advice that changed things for me. That advice was to let go of what you are desperatley hanging on to. Let the current take you down stream - you may find that things down there are not so bad afterall. It really is a liberating thing to do. Take it or leave it my friend, but its all we have right now.

[25yearsmlc]

update on my situation - W filed yesterday (clearly didn't care that I asked her to wait).

Get your helmet on. She saw no reason to wait and judging by your angry reaction (same old you!!), she was right.

I really thought you had grown from this experience. I was premature.



I have 30 days to respond, so very limited in what I can do.

They say DB'ing doesn't work when there is an OM involved...

who says that? First time I've heard that. Where are you getting this?


not that I have been doing a very good job of it,


Not sure you have done any. Her August letter which spelled out things as kindly as I've seen, but mentioned your anger, was met with anger.


but without kids, we have very little contact anyways...plus she's always lying about things so I never know the truth anyway.


What? You mean she doesn't blurt out about OM? Why would she, given your past reactions? Even now that was an angry statement about her.


I was thinking about taking a slightly different approach. Do you think it would help to call the OM (he works with my W, but is far more senior to her in position) and basically say I know what's going on and I can report it to HR if you continue what you are doing and let him panic as I'm sure he wouldn't like this.


This^^^ is extortion/blackmail.

Do NOT do that^^^...you missed the point I have made to you repeatedly.

You SAID you wanted to own this-to OWN how YOU created the situation in your marriage that contributed to the demise of it AND to the affair

but nope...You still want to OUT them for your own ego reasons

and NOT to own your role in this.

You are nearly divorced. She wants nothing from you.

You are supposed to want to show her YOU CHANGED...

Why would you ever talk to HIM??

She left you months ago...and you were petulant to her til a week ago.

Now you want to "go show OM " with BLACKMAIL? I seriously cannot tell if you are serious?

Did you READ the posts you have gotten? NOT MINE, I can tell you that


Or should I mention to W, when I meet up with her, listen, I think it's time to be honest...I know about OM and as 25 alluded to, basically say I realize my role in why she might have felt like I was absent and why she would do that.


how could THAT^^^ approach hurt you? Isn't it the ONLY option you have the only chance you have, of showing her you are not always reacting with anger?

This was what you were going to do. But I guess it's just too humbling for you to look at yourself in all this
b/c you have thus far made it about HER

and never you, for more than a minute.

Your reactions have all appeared angry and punitive. And now THIS blackmail scheme is your new "DB" plan? Man, you are SO NOT getting this.



Or, I could go to OM's family and e-mail them (OM's sister works with W and OM, but just in a different department).

I'm going to pretend you are joking and not even comment on this...^^^^



As people have brought up in the past, "what is my objective from this?" It is to create a situation where it is not so easy to maintain this relationship and make it uncomfortable for OM such that the dynamic might change.


That is NOT the goal. What happened to the GOAL of SHOWING HOW YOU ARE NOT AN ANGRY PETULANT MAN? That you are not someone

WHO PUNISHES/BLACKMAILS WHEN HIS EGO GETS HURT???...

You were supposed to show her that you could get past the A if you reconciled.

You said you wanted to CHANGE YOU...

instead, NOW you want to use it as a weapon which is exactly why she won't tell you about it.

How could this possibly help you look mature or as if you were taking responsibility for your actions? You have not done that yet and now this blackmail plan is your "new" approach? It's just meaner. What do you think will happen?

maybe for a few minutes you get to feel "right"...?? Wow...

Enjoy staying single b/c

THIS^^^nastyass blackmailing/extortion will do nothing FOR YOUR MARRIAGE.


If he is aware that I could go to HR or that his sister knows (or even parents if I chose), I'm not so sure that would bring them closer as they would then know that the cat's out of the bag.


[color:#FF0000]

You think He'll fold and THEN SHE will run back to YOU? NO...NO...

read THIS site or the books...

exposing to others (as opposed to discussing it with her)

BACKFIRES...makes YOU look vindictive, and you are being that way.

READ UP ON THIS ON THIS SITE of those who involved others...LOTS OF REGRETS...nail in the coffin.

You WOULD UNITE them and

while you may have pushed her into his arms in the first place-

now you'd be making sure they stay together b/c YOU will be the uniting force, the enemy.

and FWIW --- understand this---Most 3rd parties (HR) think the spouse -YOU- who exposes to them (the 3rd party) is vindictive. That's how it will look.

That's how it sounds. TO me, that is what it is.


Have you really read the Div Remedy books? They do NOT favor this. I feel like my posts to you were totally ignored and this is getting wacky.


I just don't see me doing LRT or going dark at this point could help anything as there is no reason for us to have contact and then when it's signed, they can run off into the distance and leave me looking like a fool. While I have shown signs of anger, or punitive actions, this is one piece of information that I have been very careful with. I could have told all of her friends, co-workers, etc. a long time ago when I found out who this person was, but I didn't. W knows I know of an OM, but she has denied it and last we talked about it, I at that point didn't know who it was, but now do.

Gee, guess that^^^ makes you a HERO. Why not OWN your role for real like you said you wanted to do??

Tell her YOU can be changed and have changed and want to be a better man.

THE ONLY reason for mentioning OM is to show her that despite this
you want to work on the r.

IF you go around exposing it, aside from losing her forever AND looking petty,

she'll KNOW she was right to leave b/c you'd throw it in her face

or hold it over her head forever--as you are right now.


Worst case scenario, my W is upset and OM is upset, but not really much to lose at this point.

You have everything to lose at this point. No chance of looking dignified or honorable OR HUMBLED which is what she needed to see from you.

Man you sure must like being angry b/c you spend lots of energy on what to do with it.

I don't know ANY happy people who are also angry. FWIW


Again, this would be via a phone call or e-mail. I don't plan on physically confronting anyone.

and that's supposed to show what? Restraint? Just makes it look more weasly...Gosh you sure can't see things the way others might.

You need to. We discussed empathy awhile ago. Do you feel ANY for your w?

I know, this is not conventional DB'ing,


it's not DBing at all.


but I really believe DB'ing is also difficult when you don't have kids or any reason to connect on a regular basis.

Any thoughts or 2x4s?? While you can fault me for anything I've done to date, I just need something to break up this trajectory and fog.

see above...not that it matters but I've tried to explain this to you and thought I'd reached you but ....SIGH

not so.

You never read those DB books

or

you skimmed them looking for a SINGLE act or sentence that could turn this around

Look inside...that's where the actions/changes were supposed to be.

consistent change + sufficient time = change SHE could believe in.

Too late now?

Maybe, but I"m pretty darn sure,

your latest plan to STILL keep the focus OFF YOU and YOUR SUPPOSED CHANGES

will erase any chance of her rethinking your r in the future. IT's more of the old angry pouty boy she left.

good luck

[25yearsmlc]

ps

by your own words you were an angry and imo, verbally abusive h. (the things you called her were pretty abusive-out of bounds)

You were also gone, A LOT. She was unhappy and told you about that, often.

She wants kids but you have a temper. She left you. She's with OM now...

Not so insane.

IMO your only chance is to become the man she hoped you were and maybe once were. And could be again.

Extorting OM or exposing him to others, is exactly what your worst instincts are and they are what got you here.

I'm not defending her actions but I sure understand them. And frankly I understand HERS more than yours.

Read her August letter to you again. (And anyone else who hasn't read the whole thread, OUGHT to read that before encouraging this scheme.)

Finally, I see virtually zero DBing in your approach.

You stopped pursuing?

Not really. And when you had the chance for a positive interaction you denied it to her to punish her.

(SIGH)

Who were you when she fell in love with you?