Today was just one of those days. I had a house full of quilters taking a class. My H kept wanting to talk. I didn't want to talk then.
As soon as they cleared out he was really ready to talk. So I sat down and looked him in the eye and listened. This talk continued for off and on for the next 5 hours. In between all our evening errands.
Boy Howdy! I can't really even wrap my brain around all that was said. I finally told him I didn't want to talk anymore.
I was half way where I need to be. I did my best to reflect and validate. Funny, what I'm getting out of this is that I am married to a messed up person. I don't know what to do or say anymore.
The main thing I said to him was that in the long run I will not still be his friend if we get divorced. This was after after hearing all the script he was handing me about OW.
He ponders how hard it will be on him to never know what happens to OW in the long run if he never sees her again. I told him that if we D he will not know what happens to me except that I am still alive because I will still be getting part of his money.
And I wasn't kidding. I am trying to be his friend right now. But he sure is making it hard.
I read some posts by Snodderly, AntoniaB and some others that really spoke to the current feelings I am having. I think my H has no idea how much he is hurting me. And if I hear one more time about poor, poor OW I may crack! Poor, poor OW is getting what she deserves.
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
Wendy, Hang in there! Your h is still on a very bumpy road and it will get worse before it gets better. No doubt, he thinks the ow needs rescuing. It's a shame he can't see what is right there in front of him...a wonderful woman who has shared so much w/him.
You are doing a great job! You have more patience than I would have had discussing that poor, poor ow.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wendy kudos to you on sticking to the issue of the boundary of "friendship" if you are divorced. I don't see this as a threat but as a reality that many of us have to create post-divorce, and he probably doesn't believe you entirely (they never do) but it needs to be said. I know that in some cases, people must stay connected to co-parent. But one can co-parent without being friends. More like business associates.
My XH was really advocating this friendship thing early on; when he first moved out before OW, during the first separation, he moved in with a bachelor friend a bit older than him who lived in a community of people in their 40s to 60s, all who were once working for the same district who bought homes near one another. There were MANY divorced people in this group, and essentially all the divorcees were remarried--the men to much younger women--and he used to talk with this glow about him about "how cool" it was that the exwives would come around with their new men and how everyone just got along so well.
The thing is that these marriages were ended more or less mutually...not with betrayals where one spouse just suddenly revealed "I'm leaving you for so and so" when they'd been painstakingly constructing that things were normal and loving with their spouse for some time.
And I told him, this will NOT be us. I will NOT hang out with you and OW or be your friend. It will never happen. How can you ask this of me?
Now, 19 months post-bomb, our legal matters are finalized and we are in complete NC. There is nothing that would make me contact him ever again. He hasn't contacted me in awhile but when he does it appears he is trying to re-engage me, and I'm polite but don't continue the conversation.
I have actually tried the friendship thing with him, as in friends from a distance, just via email. What happens is the minute we start getting comfortable and chatty, he turns on me and becomes angry or starts a fight where there was one. I suspect he does this to create distance because it confuses him when he sees us being close or talking openly about the past. He has said that he feels like talking openly means he betrays OW. So he then gets mean. This has happened enough times that I'm done and I'm not trying to have any link to him anymore because he will turn on me. Friends don't play these games.
The spouse who says he wants to remain friends with the LBS once he's in a rela. with an OP is the spouse who is essentially wanting to have a person in the wings as a backup plan. He hasn't really thought out what it means to ask the LBS to remain friends, the sacrifice to that person to be in this position. It's really arrogant--it's almost like saying, I want you and OW both, and you, LBS, should be happy to AT LEAST have me as a friend.
Our strength comes from getting to the point where we realize that no true friend would ever ask this of us, and to find our friends in people who are kind unconditionally. Once I said to XH, if we remain friends and only friends, and then OW becomes bothered by it, then what? And he said, well then I'd have to stop being friends with you OUT OF RESPECT FOR HER. I said so you'd betray me TWICE. Once as a husband, then as a friend? And he said "well yeah, I'd have no choice."
Really?
Create as much distance as you can, detach, detach, and yes, hold to the reality that you cannot respect yourself and be good to yourself if you allow someone to be friends with you who is essentially choosing to betray you in many different ways repeatedly. You are worth so much more.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
I think that many people--not just MLCers--confuse love and pity. You might want to pose that point to him. I think some MLCers (mine was one of them) are determined to rescue the poor, poor OW. And a lot of the OWs are very messed up people. I think my X still feels so very sorry for OW, even though she took advantage of him and took off when things got real.
There is no attempt to understand what I might have gone through. I can say that I did my best to understand him and his emotions--maybe it wasn't enough but I did my best and I am trying my best to be a better person and to be my best with New Guy.
I think it is wise not to be friends. I think if you want to reconcile, you have to move in that direction, but OP needs to be gone and not the subject of all this sympathy. And it is not fair to you to expect to be friends if you divorce. How can you get involved with a new person if your X is hanging around? Answer: It is harder. And I think that is part of why they want to be friends.
Yet it is interesting that many if not most of them try. To me that suggests unfinished business as well as a complete lack of understanding of what being the LBS might be like.
M: 16 years Bomb 4/07 OW 20s long gone Divorced 11/09 I remarried New Guy Cooperative r w/X regarding D
The "let's be friends" speech is very cruel and heartbreaking for the LBS. I remember mine clearly. Ex and I were driving in the car. He was telling me he did not love me anymore but wanted us to stay friends. He said that he saw us all "vacationing together" when I eventually found a significant other. That is when I knew he was really off his rocker. The only solution to all this nonsense is to detach. You have no other choice.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
"Let's be friends"...now that is a topic that I always shake my head on. When my xh began his little moment of clarity 5 1/2 after he ran away, the first thing that popped up in his email was that he had a number of divorced friends and that they were good friends w/their ex-spouses. I pointed out that in many cases the exes had to be friendly because of children and other financial commitments. I pointed out that people can't be friends when one spouses acts like a total @ss and carries on as a monster after leaving and besides, we had no children and no financial commitments together. Friends, I don't think so. My exh and I are not friends, but I treat him just as I would anyone else...pleasant...nothing more.
It's all about what they want and when they want it. Appearances mean everything to them and they want us to play along and oh, yes, be on your "ps" and "qs"...when they are nice, they most likely want something. At least, that is what I have discovered w/my xh.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
He ponders how hard it will be on him to never know what happens to OW in the long run if he never sees her again. I told him that if we D he will not know what happens to me except that I am still alive because I will still be getting part of his money.
Lol - good answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would I want to be friends with someone who showed himself to be so unworthy of my friendship? Really? I am a lot more particular about my friends.
[quote=snodderly It's all about what they want and when they want it. Appearances mean everything to them and they want us to play along and oh, yes, be on your "ps" and "qs"...when they are nice, they most likely want something. At least, that is what I have discovered w/my xh.
[/quote] I was trying to figure out what set my H off on this talking spree yesterday. And I realized one of the ladies who came over to the class held at my house works with my H. I didn't know this, it is a big guild.
She spoke highly of him when she realized the connection. She is a liitle older than us and about to retire from civil service. As soon as I heard she worked with my H I went to the 3 close friends who were in the class and asked them to not say anything about the situation during the class.
That morning I got my H to come and say Hi to the lady he works with. I think might have really made him think about the long term part that people will know about our personal lives and see he/we aren't perfect.
I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts with me. It helps so much.
I am working really hard on my getting back into comfortably detached. He did a good job of upsetting me last night. I got very little sleep. I was sick to my stomach and tired all day. My friends at the quilting class today wondered why I was so quiet.
I am off my game, need to get more clarity. Guess time for some long walks!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
That morning I got my H to come and say Hi to the lady he works with. I think might have really made him think about the long term part that people will know about our personal lives and see he/we aren't perfect.
Wen,
Please try not to focus on this. While your H may realize that there are going to be ramifications to his actions, please don't think they will make much of a difference.
My STBX, didn't tell anyone for a very long time. We played the "all is nice" game for years with his family and our friends. Well, he did. I told whoever I wanted to. I didn't make him out to be bad or me, just that things weren't working out. We did get along, for appearances sake for a while. Then we began to be able to get along for real in a very strange sort of way.
He still wants to be friends, and we are as much as I can stand. Although I did ask my BF last night when I get to stop being the "better" person when I received a very nonsensical text...
Remember there is no logic to any of this and TBH, you really don't want those things, other people's opinions, the kids, any of it, to be the reason he decides to work on the marriage.
For any reconciliation to really work, you want it to be for the M and the M only.
Work on detatchment, take time to yourself. Answers come when you need them or are ready for them...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
So Cat, I agree that the only important work would be on working on the M! My H talked to me a bit this morning. I was actually still in bed, but he was derermined to talk.
He told me OW is done with him. He is confused as to why he can't bring himself to leave me. He said if I wanted to divorce him I should do it now, because he would sign for anything I asked for. I am not going to do that. I told him so.
I asked him to clarify was that so he could try to get OW back. His answer was that she was done with him and had said she would never believe another thing he said. He thinks he is doomed to a loveless life.
He actually said he doesn't feel attracted to anyone right now. I really still love him. The things he says hurt me. But yet I see progress. The other day he finally told me the truth about 12 years ago, when he wanted to leave me before.
It was an other woman. (Gasps of suprise all around......) And yes, she was the one who he got back in touch with recently. This falls in with him needing someone waiting in the wings. He also said he still has some resentment towards me because he stayed with me just for the kids. I told him this morning I wasn't going to spend another 12 years with him being resentful to me for decisions he is making.
I told him plainly this morning that for us to stay together we need to do something. And he could think about all that I had said today while he was at work. I didn't tell him the stress was making my chest hurt. But it was. I keep praying for the right thing to happen. I put aside my anger and I really do turn it over to God.
AntoniaB said: The spouse who says he wants to remain friends with the LBS once he's in a rela. with an OP is the spouse who is essentially wanting to have a person in the wings as a backup plan. He hasn't really thought out what it means to ask the LBS to remain friends, the sacrifice to that person to be in this position. It's really arrogant--it's almost like saying, I want you and OW both, and you, LBS, should be happy to AT LEAST have me as a friend.
I think my H still wants both of us. I think she hasn't played her last card. Thankfully she is past menopause. So let us hope there isn't a pregnancy scare in the future. My H told me he thinks she lies a lot. I guess slowly he is starting to see her.
I am feeling strong and weak at the same time. UCK!
I just got a no-notice hospitality check, my son and granddaughters are here. The girls are tormenting the dogs, guess I'd better supervise so no one gets their nose bitten!
Aloha Friends!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
