Still alone, but no longer confused...

[nhmom]

You know, I feel like I'm applying for a job or something and my skills and abilities are being tested. I feel like I need to show that I have what it takes and I'm up for the job.

I was going through some old emails and this particular email exchange from H stuck out. It was from mid October, just over a month before the bomb, and probably a week or two before he kissed OW.

M: What’s on your mind?

H: You and how your whole thing with work and all has made you really grumpy and a lot of the time un-happy and how it has affected us. Makes me scared.

M: I know. The whole work think has been very stressful and it doesn’t seem to end. I’m sorry, but I’m just frustrated with everything. I’d like to change things, but it’s not easy, and that feeds into the frustration. I feel like we are slowly coming out of our rut…with the little raises and finally deciding on getting a new car. But then again, the whole work thing frustrates me again, because I’d like get another job, but it’s taking a long time with no real potentials yet. I know I have to be patient, but it’s not easy. It seems that we’ve been in a rut since we got out of college and can’t seem to get moving.

H: I know that is how you feel and I am trying not to take it personal but I have never seen you like this before. It is hard for me to watch. I miss the sweet you so much. We just have to keep going and not give up. I know you will find something…what I don’t know. You are right about seeing some movement in things like the car and a bit more money. We just have to keep fighting and we will make our way. We are battlers and don’t give up.

It makes it difficult for me to understand how H went from that to giving up. He told himself that we shouldn't give up.

[Accuray]

nhmom,

It may not feel like it, but it's progress. If H is initiating R talks and asking you what he should do and how he should feel, then you know he's spending a lot of time thinking about it and he's tortured too. He *wants* to trust you and believe things will be better, but he's very afraid of being hurt, so he's holding back. +1 for the DB coach at this point.

When my W asked me what as worth saving, I had a list ready that included:

-- that feeling we had about each other when we got married
-- the shared history and the good times that we've had together
-- our shared status as parents for our children
-- the lifestyle we've built that includes [stuff you're both happy about lifestyle-wise]

I also said that there was no guarantee that this will work out. Given all we have to lose, don't we owe it to ourselves to give it a shot? If it doesn't work out you're really no worse off, maybe we'll both learn something about ourselves. If it does work out, we save the expense of divorce and the lifestyle hit that we're both guaranteed to take.

Accuray

[rickb89]

I also said that there was no guarantee that this will work out. Given all we have to lose, don't we owe it to ourselves to give it a shot? If it doesn't work out you're really no worse off, maybe we'll both learn something about ourselves. If it does work out, we save the expense of divorce and the lifestyle hit that we're both guaranteed to take.

Accuray - how did your W react to this? Did she take this advise? thx

[Accuray]

So this was my one-time shot to tell her that I wanted to save the marriage, that I was willing to do the work, etc.

The key things that I did were to:

1) own up to the problems I brought to the marriage
2) normalize her affair so she'd know I wouldn't scold her and keep throwing it in her face
3) tell her that I wanted to save the marriage
4) described what I wanted our marriage to be going forward
5) described what I understood about the impact divorce would have on us, our finances, lifestyle, and the kids

When I went through those things, I was able to refer back to some shared dreams we had that we'd accomplished -- we wanted a vacation house and we'd bought one, and it made our lives so much better. I shared my vision for what our marriage looked like in the future and said that it's ours to take.

I rehearsed this before I did it and it was very heartfelt -- I knew I had one shot, because after that it's pursuing. When I delivered it it was over the phone, and it did make her cry.

I can't say that it's what lead to our reconciliation, but I do think it cracked the door open and got her thinking for the first time. I think it's the 180's that really lead to the reconciliation.

Accuray

[rickb89]

So this was my one-time shot to tell her that I wanted to save the marriage, that I was willing to do the work, etc.

The key things that I did were to:

1) own up to the problems I brought to the marriage
2) normalize her affair so she'd know I wouldn't scold her and keep throwing it in her face
3) tell her that I wanted to save the marriage
4) described what I wanted our marriage to be going forward
5) described what I understood about the impact divorce would have on us, our finances, lifestyle, and the kids

When I went through those things, I was able to refer back to some shared dreams we had that we'd accomplished -- we wanted a vacation house and we'd bought one, and it made our lives so much better. I shared my vision for what our marriage looked like in the future and said that it's ours to take.

I rehearsed this before I did it and it was very heartfelt -- I knew I had one shot, because after that it's pursuing. When I delivered it it was over the phone, and it did make her cry.

I can't say that it's what lead to our reconciliation, but I do think it cracked the door open and got her thinking for the first time. I think it's the 180's that really lead to the reconciliation.

Accuray

Minus the issue of an A in my sitch, I have expressed these same things to my W. We will see where this goes from here. THX

[nhmom]

Accuray-

Thank you for sharing your examples. I feel like I have said bits and pieces of it before, so he knows how I feel and what I want. I don't think I'm in a position to talk about it again as it might come across as pursuing. Although maybe a well thought out letter that lists everything that I had tried to tell him in one place would be good. I'll have to give it some thought though, I'd want to make sure it's done right.

There is no doubt that H is suffering and is confused. I suppose if it was that easy, he'd be gone already, but there must be something that is still keeping him at home. I'd say maybe S4 is the reason, but he's got so little patience with him and I can see him get frustrated and irritated when S4 doesn't do something right away, talk too loud, doesn't sit still, etc. He's always got something to complain about. He said that he doesn't want to be here. If that's the case, why is he still here?

While it makes sense that his questions might be a positive, I'm still having a hard time seeing that it is positive, maybe just "neutral". I guess maybe I'm not trying to get my hopes up too high.

Yesterday was uneventful. I did not end up cooking dinner, just had leftovers. H came home late anyway, so S4 and I had already eaten. I think if I had cooked something special, then I would have been disappointed when H came home late. Earlier in the day he emailed and asked if I wanted a movie for last night. I replied by saying "Sure, that would be nice". Then he emailed back saying "Ok, go get it then." So I did, and we watched it together in silence, and then I went to bed. This morning we both took S4 to soccer, but then H wanted to be dropped off at home because he has a cold and didn't feel well. I've made him a few cups of tea with honey throughout the day, but trying not to come across as too caring or smothering...just letting him be.

I took S4 ice skating today. It was his first time on ice. We had a blast. S4 wants to be a hockey player now. I asked H if he wanted to come, but he said he had a headache. I didn't expect him to come anyway, but I thought I'd ask.

[rickb89]

Well, he is still in your house so maybe time will help him get his head and heart in order without the drastic step of him moving out. My W never left either so I get how it is for you. It's tough when they are there and not there at the same time. You have to shut your heart and emotions off so much.

Is he getting any counseling?

Good news about your son's love for hockey. Potential Bruin?

[nhmom]

Rick -

Yes, it is hard when they're here, but not here. H's facial expressions show that he doesn't want to be here. No, H is not getting counseling and he REALLY needs to. He's got a lot of emotional stuff to get through from his childhood. He's been adopted twice and found his biological mom 5 years ago. H has never been to counseling in the 13 years that I've known him.

The entire day H has been in our bedroom watching movies. It's funny how he can be in "our" bed during the day, but not at night.

Yeah, a future Bruin for sure! He's trying to get me to take him to a Bruins game Though for now he's striving to be a junior Monarch!

[RoRoinMD]

Rick & nh - I'm going through the same thing. My H is still in the house but sleeping on the couch. He has some dad issues that he probably should be talking to someone about, but won't. How DO you shut your emotions off?

I'm definitely having issues detaching, but still being friendly. (One of his issues was that he felt that he didn't get enough attention in our M and didn't matter.)

We've been getting along REALLY well lately, but I always wonder if he's just being nice until he leaves.

Love the hockey thing! So cool!

[nhmom]

Quite a bit has happened since I posted on Saturday. H and I had more R talk that he brought up. I felt like it was my chance to let him know things that were on my mind. I kind of tossed DB'ing out of the window, though I didn't really lose it when we were talking, just occasional tearing up.

I really didn't mean to confront him about OW, but as we were talking, things lead to it and I let him know that I knew. H got angry for a moment - at me for "using 'his' friend against him" and at our friend for telling me things that only he knew. I told H that I already had a very strong gut feeling and friend just confirmed what I knew. I told him I didn't blame him and that despite all of that I still want to work through this. I think it took him by surprise, because he knows that the "old" me is not very forgiving. H seemed to have brushed OW off like it was nothing. I didn't ask anything more about OW, just that I knew and was willing to move on.

We talked a lot...I teared up a few times, but remained mostly calm. I don't even remember most of the stuff that was said. The next morning I took my time getting out of bed - first S4 and I watched some cartoons in bed, then S4 went to see H and I finished a movie I started the night before. H came in eventually and wanted to talk more. Then he got distracted and ended up coming on to me. I tried to tell him that it's not a good idea, but gave in and we ML (seriously, what's wrong with me). Afterwards he went back to wanting to "get out" of our M. I had some weak moments of reacting...ended up taking off my rings and putting them on the table and also took our wedding photos off the walls. I know, stupid me, couldn't control myself. H asked me what I am going to do. I told him that I'd be fine and figure things out and that he doesn't have to worry about me anymore. H said that he does have to worry about me, and I told him that if he walks, then he does not and I wouldn't be his responsibility anymore.

H wanted to have lunch with his mom to talk about his plans to move out. H told her that he hates it here and wants to move out. He said that the only thing holding him back is money. After lunch he went to hang out with a friend in a bar. I noticed that H took his wedding band off and left it at home.

I was watching a movie in bed when H came home. We exchanged a few casual words and he went on to sleep on the couch.

This morning when I got out of the shower he was sitting on our bed and it looked like he wanted to say something. I sat down next to him. H again asked what's there to save, I have my short speech - not a lecture, just my reasons of wanting to make it work. I told him that if he thinks the grass is greener on the other side, then he should go and find out for himself that it's not. If he thinks that running away from problems will make him happy, then he should find out for himself. And that I am not going to run away from problems, I am going to face them head on and I am going to come out a better and stronger person, with or without him. (H said that I run away from problems, that I shut down. Maybe it's a 180 for me for wanting to face the problems). H noticed that my rings were back on and he asked why. I told him that I wanted to put them back on. Then he asked what the real reason was, and I told him that I wasn't done with him yet.

H said he's going to look at studios and S4 can be with me full time and he'd come and visit whenever (his big thing at first was 50/50 split of S4). I told him that's fine, but he couldn't just come whenever. We could talk about a schedule and he'd have to let me know when he would come. H asked 'why?' I told him that it wouldn't be his home anymore and he would be visiting and would need to let me know ahead of time. H didn't answer to that.

Later in the bathroom as I was drying my hair he touched me on my back. I turned the dryer off and looked at him. H said (in a gentle voice) "I don't know how to love you anymore". All I could think of at that moment was "It takes to get back to that. Do you 'want' do love me? Do you want to be loved by me?" He just said "I don't know".

I know I could have handled the last couple of days much better, but I wanted to let him know a few things without pursuing him at the same time. I think H is still very confused. If he was "really" done, would he be questioning himself? I feel like he's getting closer to moving out. If he needs to really leave the house and be "by himself" to realize that it won't bring him happiness, then so be it. I told him that I don't want him to go, but I'm not going to keep him from going either. He needs to make that decision himself.