2nd Thread - After almost 1 year, I keep going

[25yearsmlc]

eh, you're human...

if he blasts you, you can say

"I know and own my mistakes IN the marriage. I have many regrets I've shared with you before and if I had it to do over again, I'd do lots of things differently. I am Not sure you have owned having an affair or your actions since...but you seem eager to move on as if that's not how your r began. I have no control over what you tell the world, but I don't have amnesia.

I've made changes and am looking forward to what is around the corner for me. I recognize you could have made things worse for all of us, and I thank you for not being callous to the kids.

But I gave birth to 3 children in 4 years and worked full time as well, and cannot see doing that again ever, let alone as a single mother, which I'm forced to be b/c of your choices. You continue to want me to accomodate things I am not ready to and may never be. That does not make me or you "wrong".

So let's keep our focus on our children and what's best for them. I"m happy to meet with a neutral party for that if you wish."

KG, this is just off the top of my head and you can reject it or take it or leave it. It's free so you are free to ignore...

just wanted to see if it helped.

[keep_going]

m422 - thanks for reading and answering - It always makes us feel better to know that someone understands and has shared a similar experience. That doesn't justify my angry reaction, but I am turning the page now.

25 - as always, thank you for your help. As you can see, H did blast me and I can totally see why.

So I responded as you suggested, just leaving out the work part. I know that convo is coming up again soon, so I am keeping your suggestions very handy for when that time comes.

I am learning so much from your writing style and will re-read this post often. You are neutral, factual, not angry and most importantly, you show understanding, kindness and growth. Thanks for teaching me that.

[BklynMom]

""Good grief, you have a 6 month old!! Of course his family has a problem with that""

You have accepted your role in the decline of your marriage your H has not at all accepted his role. I understand the DB philosophy about we can only be responsible for our actions and our behavior and we need to own our mistakes.

What has been hard for me and seems similar for you is to own our mistakes while recognizing that H made some grievous mistakes as well.

I loved what 25 wrote above. I think you should send it to him and go dark. Try to set up some custody sitch where a 3rd party does the hand off not you.

Your H like mine does not want to own that he is abandoning a family. He is not just leaving you, he is also leaving the kids and that makes him a schmuck. You MIL and SIL know that marriage is not easy. They know that W are b!tchy but why did he slept with you and conceive your S 15 months ago if you were so terrible. He needs to admit to himself that he is partly to blame.

Your MIL & SIL being disappointed in him is how most mothers and sisters would feel. You did nothing wrong by telling them in the way you did. He needs to understand this is not peachy keen.

Sorry your H just got me so mad reminds me of mine.

[sayitaintso]

m422 - That doesn't justify my angry reaction, but I am turning the page now.

Don't be so hard on yourself, I thought your email response was ok and truthful. What the he** does he expect you to be like: "Why don't you bring OW by for dinner and wine" Get real! I think you are handling an extremely difficult situation as best as you possibly can, keep up the good work!!

[keep_going]

BMom & Sayitaintso - thanks for your support and understanding. It's been a very tough day...

I responded like 25 said:

H,
I know and own my mistakes IN the marriage. I have many regrets I've shared with you before and if I had it to do over again, I'd do lots of things differently.

I am not sure you have owned having an affair or your actions since...but you seem eager to move on as if that's not how your relationship began. I have no control over what you tell the world, but I don't have amnesia.

I've made changes and am looking forward to what is around the corner for me. I recognize you could have made things worse for all of us, and I thank you for not being callous to the kids.

---

H got VERY upset at me. His response was so painful and full of anger... It physically hurt me to read it. Now it turns out he didn't leave and lie. We split and he left because I didn't try.
Here is his email:

"Please stop accusing me of having an affair. You throw that term around, and it's just rude and hurtful. Having an affair implies that I cheated on you, and we both know that's not true, so why do you use it. We split up and I started dating.

We split up because you refused to try. Any harm I did to you by dating after I clearly told you we were through pales in comparison to the harm you inflicted on me in the 13 years we were married. If I didn't choose to leave, there wouldn't be any relationship with Joy. And if you don't believe that, then I can't do anything about that.

I'm tired of defending myself for making the right choice to move on."

[keep_going]

Ouch... I was so hurt. I HAD to reply. I send him an email - a VERY lengthy one wearing my heart on my sleeve. Here it is, if you have the patience to read it thru. And I'll be waiting for the 2 x 4s...

"H,
I have read your last email several times because it shows me a lot of what you feel and think which I care deeply about. You also touch on a few very important issues in our relationship, so let me first say THANK YOU.

Thank you for expressing your feelings to me. I know I have not always made it easy for you to open up to me - I know how much you have feared my reactions and my anger and I appreciate you having the courage to say what you think and feel. It means the world to me.

There are some events and issues you talk about that I can honestly tell you I just don't recall things being the way you describe them, but I am truly sorry that you got so hurt. I feel pain and anger in your words and I cannot do or say enough to show my regret about that.


I want to address the white elephant in the room in the hopes that we can finally put this issue about your relationship to rest once and for all.

Was it an affair, was it not... Everyone has a different opinion about what constitutes betrayal in a relationship and we just don't agree on this and will probably never do. I have learned and accepted this and hope you do as well.

All I can tell you is that my sense of betrayal and my pain were and are still very real. In November of 2010 you started and developed an inappropriate relationship with a woman I had never even heard of. I consider it an emotional affair because you confided details of our marriage and your feelings with her that you didn't share with me. You ultimately became emotionally intimate with someone else that was not me, your wife. Did I push you there, was I to blame? Some will say yes, others will say you had a choice. It really doesn't matter anymore and I am not looking to judge you or play victim either. I own my mistakes in our marriage and I can see how you emotionally detached from me.

You say that relationship would have never evolved into anything if you didn't leave. We will never know and it doesn't really matter. You left and that relationship and that bond that you created became stronger and stronger until it turned into a physical relationship sometime after we separated and while OW was still with her husband.

I understand that you don't like the word affair. I don't either, but I have learned that good people have affairs too. Good people who are emotionally vulnerable, angry and very lonely - like you and OW - can make different choices too. You have told me - and I believe you - that neither you nor her wanted it to happen. But you both made certain choices that led one thing into another, and you both fell in love and that is where we are now.

I know you don't want to hear any of this. And I don't blame you either for wanting to protect her. I would probably do the same. And I mean it when I say it's not my place or goal to get anyone to judge or hate you or her or be the fact-checker in all of this. I know I have been judgmental in the past, and I have asked and ask again for your forgiveness for it because it is wrong.

For what it's worth, I do not talk about your relationship to anyone that you are close to anymore. I confided in two people about my feelings and pain about your relationship as things developed last year, and I know now for a fact that neither of them has ever betrayed that confidence - they both LOVE of us way too much to do that - or to act in a judgmental way towards either of us. I hope in time you will come to see this as well.

But enough about your relationship. That is NOT the cause of our problems or the reason for my email.



It hurts me deeply to hear you say that "we split up." It implies that we were both in agreement about our separation and you know we were not.

You chose to leave because you were so very hurt and tired and desperate. And I am sorry I put you through all of that - you didn't deserve any of it and nobody regrets it and will ever regret that more than me.

And in hindsight, I am also sorry that I gave you an easy out and a reason to believe I gave up. You came to me and told me you loved me but were not in love with me anymore. I harped right back at you in anger saying that I wasn't sure I could be with you if you didn't love me and that if that was the case, you should leave.

I said that in a lot anger because I was so hurt and also baffled that you told me you didn't love. It had just been two weeks since we moved into our new house, three weeks after we made love and you told me you loved me and six weeks after we conceived our son. Was is a human reaction? Sure, but a mistake all the same because you took it as that I was kicking you out.

The truth is that I never wanted you to leave and didn't mean any of what I said. I should have not let you leave the house that day. I am not justifying my hurtful words to you - please understand that. That was MY mistake, I know I have told you this, I have owned it and believe me - I will regret it until the day I die. I NEVER EVER wanted out.

I also want to clarify that I did not refuse to try, I wish you wouldn't say that, because it breaks my heart to see that you think that. I am sorry because that thought must have hurt you more than anything else in all of this.

You asked me to get help as an ultimatum. I said I would get help individually IF we also got help together. I should have not given you a conditional yes. What I should have said was that I was willing to get help not only to work on myself, but also on our marriage.
Another mistake, because regardless of anything else, I needed the help for myself. Yet, I also knew that we needed the help to heal together - and I honestly still don't understand why you refused it at the time.

And then you left less than 2 weeks after we had that conversation - before I had a chance to start my individual therapy. What you don't know is that I had already lined up a therapist after getting recommendations, but that doesn't matter now either.

I know now that I should have gotten help much, much earlier. No question about it and another one of the mistakes that I will always regret. I have also apologized for it and owned it. The truth is that I wasn't humble enough to admit I couldn't fix things on my own and that I needed outside help.

I understand your anger and hurt about this as well.

You have probably asked yourself many times why didn't it ever sink????
I don't have a satisfactory answer. But the only thing I can even try to equate my anger to is someone with a drinking problem in the sense that I could not control it on my own and I was in denial of my problem and the hurt and destruction I was causing around me.

But I NEVER stopped trying when we were together. In my very flawed and mistaken and very unhealthy way I thought things would improve if we both just kept trying and not give up. I never stopped loving you or wanting to make things work - no matter how much we fought, or how angry I was.

Bullshit, right?. Yes, this sounds unreasonable even to me. How could I act so mean to you and hurt you so much while you were crying out for help and claim I was trying? Same way an alcoholic will continue drinking despite the hurt and destruction he causes to the ones he loves the most and thinks he can quit without acknowledging he has a drinking problem.

So many times I felt so helpless not knowing how we would get out of our mess and what I could do to improve our relationship. Yes, I didn't LISTEN to you and that was my mistake as well. I just didn't know, or I should say I didn't ACCEPT how to FIX ME, until you left. I hit my bottom when I lost the love of my life.

Yes, I have a lot of regrets, so many, because I made all the mistakes in the book.
But, [censored]! I am human and we all make mistakes...
I just hate to think that mine have cost me the most important thing in my life.
I would like to think that we all deserve another chance when truly repentant and willing to change and make amends.

I cannot change the past, I can only accept the present and focus on my future and that is what I am choosing to do. And I do look forward to what lies ahead for me, because I am a better person and I continue growing and making myself happy.

I AM SORRY for all the hurt I inflicted on you - I can say it over and over, but words are cheap and I cannot turn back the clock. But I have learned so much and if I could do it all over again, I would do so many things differently.

H, I truly believe it's not a competition about who was hurt the most, when and for how long, but I can really feel the hurt in your words when you say that what I went through pales in comparison to the harm I inflicted on you. The truth is we were both hurt deeply during and after our marriage and now there are several other innocent ones that are being hurt as well. Nobody wins.

Thank you for reading and listening yet again.

From the bottom of my heart,

-me

[BFloat]

KG - just caught up on your sitch.

have to say.. that last post was painful to read. my heart goes out to you. i felt all your hurt and the sadness you must feel.

and now that you've laid it all out there.. you don't need to say it again.

you are doing a great job at being there for your kids. i'm also glad to hear that you have not been pressured to go back to work full time just to make things easier financial. your kids are only young once. people at work always say that to me.. if you can be w/ your kids more.. then that is always the better option.

you seem like a very brave woman. hang in there!

[Rick1963]

Dios mio KG. Please run those responses here before sending the m. You are not going to guilt him back. Show him with actions not words. How is your GALing?

[keep_going]

BT & Rick,

You are absolutely right. I should have first waited 24 hrs. and then used a cool head. I let my emotions and my H's reaction get the best of me and that was bad.

It's frustrating to backslide like this... NOw I have to learn from it.

Rick - my GAL is going great. I don't think there would be any complaints.

Took the girls yesterday to see Beauty and The Beast - their first ever.

Today we are staying put cause I am potty training D3, but we have a bouncy house that should keep us busy and having fun, in addition to puzzles and books that they always love.

I continue with my therapy once a week - for anger management.

Tonight when H & OW take the kids, I am going out for dinner with my best friend. She is having problems with her H (he has anger problems) and needs someone to talk to. I am helping her out with what I am learning in my own journey.

On Monday I am meeting with my friend / real estate agent to discuss the sale of our house - I want to assess the market and what it means financially. I have a feeling we need to get rid of it soon or we will lose everything. H doesn't want to talk finances with me, but I am getting all my info together so I can approach him with some suggestions / ideas.

Meeting with a L the week after to discuss drafting a separation agreement. It's been over a year, H is not doing anything and he is pulling us down financially.

I am pretty busy the rest of the time - girls to pre-school plus the little one at home. I walk them all to school and back take the girls to swim lessons twice a week, visit my parents once a week and the other day is fun day for me and the kids alone. Usually we bake or go to the park or to the beach or something like the movies yesterday.

I am also starting to get my little one to eat solids. He has grown so fast. I cannot believe he is 6 months old.

I am also starting to talk to people about finding a job - part time so I can take care of the kids.

I think that is mostly what my life is about at this point.

Have to go - baby is crying...
Will check back later.

[keep_going]

Update -

H didn't answer my email (I don't blame him).
So this am I texted him to find out what time he is picking up kids tonight:

me: Good morning. Just wanted to confirm at what time u r picking the kids up. Please let me know when you have a chance. Thanks.

H: Hi.
Thank you for the email.

me: thank u for reading it

H: It took me a while.

me: lol - you know I can be long-winded...

H: I am sorry if I hurt you

me: thanks for that.

H: My email was very defensive.

me: understandably.

H: You used the word "betrayed" in your email and I think that sums up a lot of what we both feel. That hurt is still there for us.
I am trying to let it go.

me: I understand. And I know you are trying. I see that every day and I thank you for it.

Then H switched the subject to kids' pick-up logistics - we had a pleasant exchange and he asked how the potty training was going.

We went back and forth a bit, in our now usual friendly tone and finalized arrangements.

I hope I did better in this exchange...