W racing to finish line - do I bring up OM?

[25yearsmlc]

Hey BL

I didn't mean it to be harsh but you simply did not seem to be focussed on the primary stuff here.

And you've been here awhile. And you are making this about OM, and it's NOT about him.

He's a symptom of the problems in the marriage, some of which are your responsiblility.

There are cases, rare imo, of good solid marriages in which one partner is tempted by an unusually appealing OP

and they stray...maybe they were bored or just weak...

but to carry on in a new R with OM/OW means there was a problem IN the marriage.

I hate blaming the LBSer and I'm not really...there are some cheaters who are serial cheaters who simply lie to get what they want and they're cake eaters and users.

But the letter your w wrote in August is not the letter of a user or cake eater.

She's a lot like the WAW who wrote that letter, or so she seems to me.

If she were to tell you about OM, AND she wanted to reconcile-her fears would be

that she'd expect you to hold it over her head forever,

or throw it in her face every time you got angry..

.and given her view of the marital history, is it so unreasonable for her to think that?


So put & keep the focus on you. You can tell her you know about OM but only if you also tell her you "get it"...you own your part in this. No blaming...

It'd be to show how YOU are changed and different now.

And to keep the road home, paved and smooth...

[BadLuck]

25 - Thanks for your advice...It makes so much sense, yet so hard to do. I will certainly do a better job of this in my next interaction with her (and realize I should have been doing this for much longer). As much as I have told her in the past that I recognize my role in this, I have always tacked on at the end something that she also did just to not make it seem like it was all one-sided. While it is not, it is something that I didn't need to use to make a point to just make me feel justified or prove to her that there was a reason for what I did.

I have been here for quite a while, but our interactions are few and far between so unfortunately when I have had my chances, I've tried to make my point and justify rather than just sit back and listen and validate.

I'll keep the board posted on any new developments. Thanks.

[BadLuck]

I mentioned in a previous post that I was expecting to visit our safety deposit box to split up our assets so I could talk to her, but it appears as that will not happen. Here is an e-mail from W today:

Hi there-- hope you're having a good week.

Just as a heads up-- i had a doctor's appt yesterday (at 20 S clark), so i stopped by the safe deposit box afterwards. I grabbed my jewelry and left yours in there. There were actually two necklaces and earring sets from your family and not one like I originally thought. Both are in there.

I will drop off the safe deposit key and your external hard drive (I transferred my music, thanks) at some point next week.

Have a great weekend,
W

Since I have brought up OM in the past, which she's denied, I think I left her with the thinking that it's probably easiest to avoid me. I want to make her feel safe again and put out an olive branch, but not sure if the e-mail I've drafted is too much. My friends and I have hosted an annual birthday celebration with our friends from college each year, and this year's event falls tomorrow night. I left her off the invite list for obvious reasons, and she has not talked to our common friends since she dropped the bomb, so thinking this could be an opportunity to extend a hand. Of course, I'm not sure if this is too much, so please let me know if you have any suggestions. She mentioned she'd drop off the external hard drive and keys next week, but I'd like to see her when she does and not sure if asking to do so would be pursuing (though, secretly...I think I know the answer).


Thanks for the note and I hope that you are well and the doctor’s appt. was just routine.

Of course, selfishly, it would have been great to see you this week, but I understand the convenience since you were down there anyway.

I want to mention that we are having the annual January birthday celebration again tomorrow night. I didn’t want to bother you or make you feel weird so I didn’t invite you, but I hope you know that you are invited as several of our friends would love to see you.

While it took me quite a while to finally stop blaming you and start looking at my own behaviors which led to your unhappiness so that I could grow as a person, I want to make sure that you feel comfortable maintaining the friendships that you had outside of me. I know that I felt differently early on, but it is not fair for my actions to affect the friendships that you have formed over the years.

Regardless, have a nice weekend and hopefully see you next week.
-Me

I've been terrible in the past with effective DB'ing and not sure if this is too much, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

[25yearsmlc]

I mentioned in a previous post that I was expecting to visit our safety deposit box to split up our assets so I could talk to her, but it appears as that will not happen. Here is an e-mail from W today:

Hi there-- hope you're having a good week.

Just as a heads up-- i had a doctor's appt yesterday (at 20 S clark), so i stopped by the safe deposit box afterwards. I grabbed my jewelry and left yours in there. There were actually two necklaces and earring sets from your family and not one like I originally thought. Both are in there.

I will drop off the safe deposit key and your external hard drive (I transferred my music, thanks) at some point next week.

Have a great weekend,
W

Since I have brought up OM in the past, which she's denied, I think I left her with the thinking that it's probably easiest to avoid me. I want to make her feel safe again and put out an olive branch, but not sure if the e-mail I've drafted is too much. My friends and I have hosted an annual birthday celebration with our friends from college each year, and this year's event falls tomorrow night. I left her off the invite list for obvious reasons,

not obvious to me. You were mad?

and she has not talked to our common friends since she dropped the bomb, so thinking this could be an opportunity to extend a hand. Of course, I'm not sure if this is too much, so please let me know if you have any suggestions. She mentioned she'd drop off the external hard drive and keys next week, but I'd like to see her when she does and not sure if asking to do so would be pursuing (though, secretly...I think I know the answer).

How would pursuing her now, hurt your cause? You hardly did it before. Not all DB rules apply to each sitch. I don't recall what your 180s were at all. Seemed to me you "called her bluff" and she wasn't bluffing. You showed a lot of anger, or so it appeared. Maybe I missed something but I read her August letter and your subsequent posts so I think not.

Thanks for the note and I hope that you are well and the doctor’s appt. was just routine.

Of course, selfishly, it would have been great to see you this week, but I understand the convenience since you were down there anyway.

I want to mention that we are having the annual January birthday celebration again tomorrow night. I didn’t want to bother you or make you feel weird so I didn’t invite you, but I hope you know that you are invited as several of our friends would love to see you.

While it took me quite a while to finally stop blaming you and start looking at my own behaviors, I have done a lot of soul searching recently. If I could do it all over again, I'd do a lot of things differently. I so regret & apologize for hurting you. I didn't know better then, but I do now. I hope we can maintain some type of friendship b/c I've loved you a long time. xoxo"

Obviously BL, you have to make this authentic for you. So use what applies and word it how you wish. But don't be vague or verbose. Be clear.
.

which led to your unhappiness so that I could grow as a person,

I want to make sure that you feel comfortable maintaining the friendships that you had outside of me. I know that I felt differently early on, but it is not fair for my actions to affect the friendships that you have formed over the years. And it's not just me who'd love to see you. You are missed by others too.

Regardless, have a nice weekend and hopefully see you next week.
-Me

I've been terrible in the past with effective DB'ing and not sure if this is too much, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

good luck

[bustorama]

Thanks for the note and I hope that you are well and the doctor’s appt. was just routine.

fine

Of course, selfishly, it would have been great to see you this week, but I understand the convenience since you were down there anyway.

I want to mention that we are having the annual January birthday celebration again tomorrow night. I didn’t want to bother you or make you feel weird so I didn’t invite you, but I hope you know that you are invited as several of our friends would love to see you.

the above is total pursuit, also trying to control her emotional reaction. not at all detached.

While it took me quite a while to finally stop blaming you and start looking at my own behaviors which led to your unhappiness so that I could grow as a person, I want to make sure that you feel comfortable maintaining the friendships that you had outside of me. I know that I felt differently early on, but it is not fair for my actions to affect the friendships that you have formed over the years.

the above is both taking too much responsibility for het unhappiness and the breakdown of the m and also controlling in the sense that u want to make sure she feels a certain way. (and covertly that she not feel mad at you)
don't try to control whether she is mad or resentful at you. or comfortable around ur friends or not. let her feel what she wants to feel

why do u need to explain to her why u r hanging out w ur friends. she has dumped u and is having an a on u and lying about it. you are a grown man.

Regardless, have a nice weekend and hopefully see you next week.

second part also is pursuing.


thank her for the note, thank her.for the jewelry, wish her a great weekend, and, if u wish, mention that u will be hanging out with your friends who are in town.

Me

I've been terrible in the past with effective DB'ing and not sure if this is too much, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks. [/quote]

[BadLuck]

busto and 25, thanks for the feedback.

I responded to her e-mail after I saw 25's comments, so unfortunately may have pursued a little bit in my response, but at least I came clean about how I am feeling.

I mentioned in a previous post that I sent her a note in November basically saying, "I don't think it makes sense for us to ever talk to each other or see each other again, let's just let the lawyers talk". I realize that this was a huge mistake and it showed my anger, but she is actually keeping to this.

Her attorney communicates with my attorney and we don't really talk about anything. I am pretty sure she is going to file soon.

I am in a tough spot as I don't have any reason to see her (now that the safe deposit has been split up, there is really no reason to interact).

I understand that I need to let things go and detach, but it is so hard as my attorney just contacts me with new information that my W initiated when all I want to do is sit down and talk to her directly.

Any ideas for how I can see her without pursuing? I can't really take back my comment that I never want to see her again. I think coming up with excuses to meet up is pursuing, but she does want to go ahead and move this forward (and with such a simple case, this will be a very quick process).

Thank you!!

[25yearsmlc]

normally the advice is not to pursue.

But you have NOT done that in a way that shows love for her, til you sent the note.

So in your case with things the way they are, I'd worry less about pursuing and more about regretting the mistakes made by not DBing.

Not to hammer it painfully to you, just saying that your anger and punitive ways are most of what she has seen since the bomb.

So how does pursuing now, hurt you? What have you got to lose at this point?

At least if she knows you really are a changed man she MIGHT reconsider down the road when the good times you surely must have once had, can resurface in her.

(BTW I think you are only beginning the process, to be honest.)

You have only started to recognize how controlling and petulant your behavior can come across--I mean no offense by that. Just how many of your interactions have struck ME that way, and therefore may have hit her the same way.

Just my .02

[25yearsmlc]

what's the worst that would happen if you take her to lunch?

Any special days coming up (other than Valentine's b/c if she has OM, he'll be with her then) but if there's a birthday or anniversary

OR later in the week of Valentine's...?

Just a thought--

Get others input-- but I would urge them to read your whole thread before telling you to back off anymore

[BadLuck]

Thanks 25 -

If I am truly just beginning this process, then I am in bad shape.

I did send her a text on Saturday as we had that bday party and just said "hope you're having a nice weekend- the bday party is at bar at 9pm tonight...everyone would love to see you if you can make it", she responded "Hi there. I don't feel comfortable going, but thanks for the invite. Have a great time!". I responded with "I understand, thanks".

I spoke with W today as I asked if I could give her a quick call and she said she is planning on filing early this week. She has just been making up excuses not to see me, so I don't know if she'll go to lunch with me. She did say she needs to drop a couple things off, so "she'll contact me after she checks her schedule."

I did mention that I have realized a lot of things I didn't before and she said "I'm glad you've made changes and finally realized how women should be treated...I'm sure it will help you in your next relationship", but I suppose I over-stepped my bounds when I said, "I truly do think it will help me, but I wish that we could have at least tried something before we gave up", she then followed with "don't you have any pride and why are you begging?", when I clearly was not begging, but perhaps she was waiting for me to say something even close to that and jumped all over it.

She did make reference to my sister and brother-in-law who have had marital issues last year, and who worked through it. She said "it's not like I can be like 'sister' and 'BIL' and move out for a few months and move back and and everything is la-dee-da". I responded with, "I understand and I think that the space has been good for us as it's given us time to think about what we really want". She has repeatedly said that she doesn't want to be like Sister and BIL, as admittedly they are together basically for their kids only and it's very evident and has really been a negative factor when we've been around them.

I suppose I am a little impatient because I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 months. Her parents are also I think coaching her to not see me as it will be more emotionally difficult for her (or so she tells me). What is weird is that she doesn't take any responsibility...it's always "my parents don't think it's a good idea" or "the L is going to file the petition"...she is just avoiding taking any responsibility for this, which I suppose is her way of dealing with this.

So I guess my question is how can I turn her dropping a couple things off into asking her to grab a cup of coffee or something? I don't think it's too much to ask, but don't want to come off as pursuing as I think I did pursue very early on, then backed off and was punitive about it.

She is cordial now, but definitely not hitting the brakes on anything...I guess I'll just sit back and wait to see if she contacts me to drop the couple things off.

I feel like time is running out, but I don't want to revert to my impatient ways that have really hurt me in the past.

Any ideas would be helpful on how to interact balancing not pursuing with trying to break through this fog would be helpful. The worst part is that she knows I know there is an OM, and I think that is part of the reason she doesn't want to see me (because she fears I may bring it up, is my guess and I suppose it's just easier to avoid the situation altogether).

Thanks

[BadLuck]

oh, sorry, one more quick thing. I messed up likely because I politely asked today if she could delay filing the petition. I didn't think that was anti-DB, but it was just something I wanted to ask her to do. She said "no, i've come to terms with my decision and nothing's going to change".

So...I know that people have said that in the past on this board and things may have changed...but I don't see that happening as I don't have regular contact with her and there are no kids involved.

Just looking for some sign of her softening or changing the trajectory or anything I can control to help her notice my changes.