WHG: Chasing that rabbit with the pocketwatch

[Rick1963]

"It goes against everything in my being not to reach out and fix this for her"

Every time I did this^^^^^my W felt I was critizing her. Maybe it was the delivery she did not appreciate? I really don't think WAS like math. Good 180 WHG

[kolja]

"It goes against everything in my being not to reach out and fix this for her"

Every time I did this^^^^^my W felt I was critizing her. Maybe it was the delivery she did not appreciate? I really don't think WAS like math. Good 180 WHG

Belatedly I realize I had some tendencies along these lines too - for my wife, she described it as feeling disrespected or talked down to. In hindsight I can see how it would come across as controlling, correcting and condescending.

[workinghardguy]

Maybe it was the delivery she did not appreciate? I really don't think WAS like math.

I'm wondering if it isn't the presumption of inability. Sometime in the past few days my W was explaining that when she's run the numbers she still has a bunch of money at the end of the month. She was wondering if she's missing something.

In the past I would've said something like, "I'll look at your spreadsheet and see what you missed." And that statement and the mindset that created it assumes a) she missed something and b) she wants my help.

Instead I said "If you would like I can look at the spreadsheet and double-check it." In reality I should have not even offered and simply let her ask for the help if she wanted. Though I feel better about the mindset I used than what I would have used in the past.

What I did find funny though is that "lots of money left over" is $500. That's with nothing put towards clothing, household needs, medical costs, savings, Christmas club, emergency fund, or entertainment/fun spending. With three kids you can burn through $125 a week in the blink of an eye. BUT, I said nothing critical... only that I'm glad to hear the numbers might work for her. Of course they should work with her student loans in deferral, but that's another story.

And her situation won't be that dire... she hasn't inputted increased CS from her XH or CS from me.

[oldtimer]

Yeah, her financial biz is hers.

Imagine a friend or acquaintance or even most family members saying the same thing, would you really offer to review their budget?

Don't play daddy, don't play husband.

[workinghardguy]

Really emotional last night... we ate dinner as a family. We were having fun, all of us together. I finally had to get up and go upstairs for a little bit to collect myself. Just seeing what I'm going to be missing hurts so much.

W was in a panic yesterday, asking if we had money to payoff some medical collections so she could get her loan. My guilt kicked in that I let those collections happen so I said yes, we can find it. Stupid me. It wasn't until today that I realized they are collections from back when she was with her XH. I never asked, then again she never offered. But they're paid so that can't be undone.

The minute things don't go sweetly for her she just gets mean. Last night she asked me about the 401k form. I told her that my plan won't provide me with one so either we need a lawyer to draft it or draft it ourselves and hope it's right. She didn't like that answer. Then she arranged for the kids to see the new rental house at the same time S is supposed to be weighing in for his wrestling tournament. We had discussed the tournament the night before. I told her that I was taking S to the tournament and since she will have the house key she can certainly show him the house some time over the weekend. She was also pretty mad because she wants to buy a new cellphone. The deal she found she wasn't eligible for so the phone was $200 instead of $100. She texted me multiple times during my GAL last night complaining about it. I ignored them.

So that's the negatives... SS and SD were at each other something fierce last night. My W tried to deal with it but had little success. In the past I would've stepped in and fixed it, but not last night. I just kept doing my thing. Finally W sat them both down and had a discussion about how they needed to treat each other. Afterwards she comes up to me and says, "I just don't know what's eating at them right now!" "Just stressful for everyone I think" was my response.

I got home from my GAL and W was still up. She actually asked me how it went... the first time she's done that in six months. She also asked me if I would be willing to take SS to my volunteer youth group this weekend. That SS talked to her tonight that he still wants to join. I was glad it came up... I'd been trying to figure out how to start that convo with both SS and W. Thankfully some young man called last night out of the blue looking for info about the program which jumpstarted the convo between W and SS. W and I discussed it... I'm hoping SS likes it enough to stay with it. It would be something he and I can really bond over and I think the program would be fantastic for him.

Two other positives that I thought were nice... Monday while I was home from the snow I baked a bunch of stuff. Yes, not the most manly of things but I really like baking and I'm pretty darn good at it. My W and I have always disagreed about my baking. She's never been willing to say I'm good at it, and I've always felt it's because she's not and didn't want to admit I was. A pretty minor thing, but something that has always bugged me and she knows it.

So last night she's having one of these oatmeal bars I made. She puts them up high so the kids can't get them, and then turns to me and says, "I told the kids... you know what? Dad is definitely a way better baker than mommy. Everytime he bakes something it's just delicious." So I'm not going to jump up and down over that, but I saw it as a positive. I simply said thank you and that I appreciated the compliment.

Then this morning I stopped at the bank to deposit money to cover the collection payoffs (since they'd already been made). One of my 180s has been to better communicate with my W when something is taken care of that she asked me to do and I know is important to her. If I don't she sits and worries and wonders if it's been done. It used to bug me that she didn't trust me so I wouldn't tell her as a passive/aggressive tool to get back at her lack of trust. After all this I just see that she has trust issues... not with me necessarily, just with everyone. So a 180 has been to send her a simple "fyi" text that X task is done. Usually there's no reply. This morning I got, "Thank you. You clearly know my quirks ;)"

Again, not earth-shattering but baby steps. Tonight I have a GAL with a new Meetup group of 20 and 30 somethings. I haven't even told W about it. I figure eventually the kids will tell my W that grandma came over to watch them, and that's how I want it. And then GAL pretty much every night for the rest of the week and weekend.

[workinghardguy]

I feel a bit lost. I feel like I should be doing something. My W has her loan for her deposit and first month's rent. She is packing. She is scheduled to move in three weeks time.

I don't believe anything will stop this now. I think about letters, about one last conversation, about pleading the case. I know that's the not the right strategy. It's the intuitive thing to do, and all of this is counter-intuitive, right? I keep doing my GAL. There is still a part of me doing it so she rethinks her plan. I know I'm supposed to be doing it for myself and part of me is... It's still a bit mixed up.

Last night I met a group from Meetup. I originally signed up for the meetup because I want to know more people and expand my circles. But last night I was running late and then forgot something at home... and as I was headed to the restaurant I was really late and thought "forget it.. too much hassle", but then thought about how I wanted W to see me getting out there so it forced me into going. And I'm glad I did. It was fun, good conversation, met a recently divorced dad of four and a guy who just separated from him W. But the moral here is that part of my motivation was still external, not internal.

Anyway... I just feel somewhat lost. I'm starting to feel like I did in the run-up to telling the kids. Not as bad... I was feeling pretty desperate then. Now it's sort of a resigned desperation. But still emotional at times and sad.

I guess it's that I know everything I'm doing is pretty long-term horizon stuff. It has little chance to change the immediate. I don't want the immediate to happen. But anything I can do is only likely to blow up and make the immediate worse, not better.

I guess the best I can do is hold my head high, be there for my kids, and show my W that my life continues on.

Thanks for listening to my rambling here... I just needed to get this out of my head and put it somewhere.

[hope2011]

Hugs to you WHG. I know it's hard with her packing but right now is the critical time to do the 180 and GAL. If she sees you go back to your old ways or beg her to stay, she'll pack faster. Maybe the best thing you can do for her and your sitch is let her move out and struggle on her own without you there to help with finances, the kids, etc. A dose or reality in the world alone has woken up more than one WAS.

This is my 2nd M that I have used DB in. The first one wasn't successful obviously but not because I didn't DB the heck out of it... just did it too late. When my XH moved his stuff out I was a complete basketcase. I cried. Didn't beg, but did ask him to reconsider. He kept packing, with a smile on his face, excited about his new life and not one bit of guilt. So I thought. Later (we reconciled months later once for a few weeks) he admitted it was one of the hardest days of his life but he was afraid of things going back to how they were so he felt he had to leave. My point is... don't let their act fool you. She is putting on a brave face too but she feels it's something she has to do. Let her. And let her wonder why you are smiling, GAL, moving on and not mourning her. That's so much more attractive.

And from a WAW POV... As someone so fed up with my H and wondering if things will ever change, I've got one foot out the door and have looked at rentals, packed, etc. The only thing making me stay right now is his changes, attempts to change. If he goes back to being the guy I want to run from, I'm gone.

Hold steady. You can do it, WHG. If you can get through V day and her moving, you will have made it through the worst. The rest is just paperwork, if that's how it heads. But if you keep with your changes and GAL, you have a chance here. Don't let it slip away.

[workinghardguy]

Thanks Hope. I am trying. I know she's scared and putting on a brave face. As much as our WASs seem foreign to us, we still know them better than maybe anyone else. I know my W's short temper, anger, and frustration of late is a symptom of her fear and insecurity. This is how she has always been when faced with fear and insecurity.

I am trying to put on a strong front, though it's hard. I still question whether the child care arrangement is the right strategy. At the same time though it's the only way I can envision seeing my SS and SD more than once or twice a month. But I fear I will make life too easy on my W as well as create too much interaction.

I just sat down and looked at the first week we will be in separate houses. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday I will have SS, SD, and S from after school until almost 10pm. Part of me is really happy about that. It means three days with SS and SD I normally would not have. But part of me is concerned that wouldn't this all be so much harder on her if she had to find child care for those days? And then part of me says that if she has to do it, it will end up being one of her sisters... and I know I can provide a much better role-model and parenting than either of those two. Argh... just frustrated. At this point I am still coming down on the side of spending as much time with the kids as I can.

Tonight was a good night. W is still in "getting stuff together for the house" mode. She keeps asking my opinion on how she should allocate the money I'm giving her for her half of the stuff in our current house. I keep telling her those are her decisions to make. XBox or dining room table? Your call. Big TV or smaller TV? Your call. And so on.

We ate dinner as a family again. Kids are excited about the move. It hurts to hear that, but I keep reminding myself that they are kids and to them the new house is a grand adventure. We've assured them that the parents in their lives won't change that dramatically, so why wouldn't it be a great adventure?

This evening I was going to take S to the high school wrestling tournament since it was "youth night" where all the youth wrestlers get in free. It was just going to be S and I. Then at the last minute my W tells me she's coming because her BFF's daughter is on the dance team and performing, so her BFF will be there. So now we all went, W, me, SS, SD, and S.

It went fine. Early on SS sat by some friends and S sat there too, so I sat by my S. Then S moved over to where my W and SD were sitting. I sat with SS for a while, not sure if I should move closer to my W or keep my distance. Finally after a little while of that I decided that this was stupid. I'm here for my son. So he can watch high school wrestling... and he's 20 feet away from me because I'm worried that my W will not appreciate me being near her... but she invited herself. So I just went and sat by her. It was fine. She kept leaning over to me to tell me things about the different wrestlers and their families, to share a funny observation about S, or to ask me a question.

I am grateful that we can still have moments like above. I don't know if it's good in the long-term or in the terms of DBing, but I know the kids like it. But it's still darn confusing.

[2thepoint]

I just sat down and looked at the first week we will be in separate houses. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday I will have SS, SD, and S from after school until almost 10pm. Part of me is really happy about that. It means three days with SS and SD I normally would not have. But part of me is concerned that wouldn't this all be so much harder on her if she had to find child care for those days? And then part of me says that if she has to do it, it will end up being one of her sisters... and I know I can provide a much better role-model and parenting than either of those two. Argh... just frustrated. At this point I am still coming down on the side of spending as much time with the kids as I can.

WHG - I see this a little different than you. The first 3 days of your WAW's time at her new place will be a lonely time for her since the kids will be with you. What better way for her to reflect on what she has done and all that comes with it, than to be all by herself in an unfamiliar place. Forced to ponder her future. What could be better? /sarc

I am grateful that we can still have moments like above. I don't know if it's good in the long-term or in the terms of DBing, but I know the kids like it. But it's still darn confusing.

If it's good for the kids, then it is all good. Even though you will be separated from your W, I think any opportunity you can share together as a family will be good for you, your W and the kids. I mean, how much time does your W spend with SS, SD and her first H? I don't think you ever mentioned that as happening. So, if you can make that happen on your end, then all the better, IMO.

[sayitaintso]

Its going to be a tought time adjusting WHG, their is no way around it. I had a great amount of anxiety when my W moved out and was sick to my stomach for a while when I had to go to her new place.

I tried to remain as positive as possible for my kids as they will feed off your energy. I also was frustrated thinking that when my W had the kids and she needed childcare that my sil would care for them when I know they are not getting what I would provide. It was and still is (6 months later) hard to let it go.

However, I also found the dynamic between W & I changed a few weeks or perhaps longer? after she moved out. Their was less tension and her guard seemed to come down slightly. Time and space can be a good thing and I hope it is the case for you.

I recall sulking and moping around the nights my W had the kids as it was so quiet but now I try to find GAL activities when she has them and that has definitely helped.

Keep your head up!!