My Sitch/any better ideas than going dark?

[hope2011]

Wow, you've got a lot going on in your situation, Broken.

Sounds like you're on the right track going dark, seeing a counselor, not drinking. Your response was good too.

Yes, that is Jerry Springer material for sure but that's her past, her life. You can't excuse her behavior for it, you can't change it for her and you can't protect her from any issues she may have from it. She's a grown woman, a mother. I say this because I had a Jerry Springer childhood and a Lifetime Movie adulthood so far myself so I'm not judging or downplaying what she's been through... but at some point we all have to grow up and take responsibility for how we handle the situations thrown at us and what we make out of our lives. The things that happened to her aren't fair, at all. But she's 30 years old with 3 kids now - not the 14 year old pregnant girl anymore. You have to let her grow up and pay her own bills, take care of herself and stop giving her extravagant gifts. Mature adults do not take large gifts like that from others, especially when breaking up with someone. Nor do they have affairs. Those are her issues. You cannot fix them or save her... you can enable her but you shouldn't. Nor can you be Prince Charming saving the Damsel in Distress... because while you may believe you are the "best thing that ever happened to her", that's not how she feels or she'd be there with you. Besides, don't you want to be loved for who you are rather than what you can buy? Be a soulmate rather than a savior?

Keep working on you. You're on the right path. What are you doing to GAL?

[BFloat]

Just caught read up on you sitch and have a few questions for you..

You seem to go into great detail about your W's past and how you swept her off her feet.. But you seem to gloss over some of the initial problems prior to being married as well as when you were drinking.

What exactly does womanizing in between the two marriages mean? Were you dating her at this time? Also, what kind of comments did you make towards your wife that lead her to feel she needed plastic surgery? And while you admit to having been verbally abusive.. It's not clear what sort of things you said.

Although you may have been a great provider, it doesn't seem as though that is what your wife was after. She may be looking for validation which she may have found in OM. Sorry.. I don't mean to say she had a reason and that it was your fault.. I'm just trying to see her perspective.

While I was growing up, I was always told that I was beautiful and never lacked for attention from men. Yet I struggled w/ a lot of self esteem issues. I never felt pretty and to this day I wonder.. If i was thinner.. Or more beautiful.. Maybe my H wouldn't have left me. Foolish I know but.. It's the truth.

So.. Before we start focussing on how crazy your W is because you were so good to her.. And she threw you in jail etc.. Let's get the whole picture.

Not trying to crucify you.. It's tough love! I really do wish the best for you.

On a side note.. The nose piercing.. Maybe MLC? Maybe not. I'm 37 and after H left, I thought about getting one (haven't yet) because I want to feel a little bit more edgy and not so nice girl.. And to boost my own self esteem!

[Broken74]

Thanks Hope and Barely Floating, I greatly appreciate your time in reading and providing your feedback.

Hope, I appreciate everything you said and have to say I agree with you. The BMW at Christmas wasn't so much a "gift" she is paying all the bills related the car, and slated to purchase it by March, but if worse comes to worse I will just go get the car, after 2/13 and the 50b expires of course. I have came to the realization that I may have just been played for a fool/revenge and this entire marriage was farce, and your viewpoint certainly reiterates to me that could be the case.

As far as GAL activities, honestly I am just becoming the person I was before this marriage (minus the womanizing and drinking). Playing golf and looking forward to rejoining my club this year, tennis, basketball, teaching at a local shelter, applying for the "corporate peace corps" at my job, hanging out with friends that I pretty well lost contact with after getting married just to name a few. Staying out of trouble is a little challenging for me, but GAL is not.

Barely, thanks for your feedback, I am not trying to be one sided I am definitely an open book.

I have my share as issues as well. My first marriage ended in February of 2009. I was married for 3 years, had my MLC at about 32. Used to weight near 300 pounds, on my wedding day in 11/2004 I had a near breakdown and the switch flipped. Started working out like a crazy person got down to 175 and was in the best shape of my life in the end of 2007. Marriage had went downhill and was sexless. My wife was heavy with self esteem issues and despite my best efforts was never interested in joining in getting into shape. I didn't have a lot of experience prior to this nor had women ever persued me. Upon getting into shape I was being persued quite a bit. Tried to get lucky at home one night and my wife says "if that's what you want then go find you a hot little number". That flipped the switch for me. I messed up because I actually did what she said, long story short we divorced in 2/2009. So all in all, I honestly feel I am on the receiving end of karma in my sitch, that's one of the ways that I accept where I am right now.

So in 2/2009 I am in MLC mode, basically fraternizing with any woman moderately attractive with a pulse, making up for lost time. One of this women was who ended up being my wife. We dated off and on for a bit as she had issues of her own, she would dissapear for a month here or there and pop back up. Once I finally got to her and "swept her off her feet" as you say, it was implied we said we were dating exclusively. I continued to see one woman I had been seeing prior to meeting her. I got found out, they talked to one another etc, I explained that my womanizing days were over, I wanted her and her alone, and asked her to marry me in 12/2009 with a ridiculous engagement ring.

She had been wanting plastic surgery far before she found out about my infidelity during our dating. Having 3 kids, I barely ever saw her body naked, she made mention that she was self conscious about it but I never made negative statements about her body. I knew that she suffered from self esteem issues, and lets be honest I had my own selfish reasons for her getting the plastic surgery. But my heart was in it because I wanted her to be happy and feel good about herself. Obviously I was in love and didn't think everything would go south so fast and I would get stuck with the remainder of the bill.

So the things that I said to her, in all honesty barely, I was so hammered/blacked out I don't even remember. I know I called her a bankrupt *****, fueled by my constant stress over finances because everything was on my head. As I said, my actions pulled her out of bankruptcy, as well as allowing her sister and husband to move into the house they wanted. When I found out about the EA I yelled in the driveway she was a cheater. For fear of moderation issues, I'm not sure what I can say. I'll leave it that I was a tremendous jerk I know this without a doubt, and I definitely was verbally abusive towards her. But literally this happened maybe 5 times, all black out drunk alcohol induced.

As recently as the holidays she continued to tell me I was the man of her dreams, but that "too much had went on to recover". Also saying she knows that she will never find a man to treat her like me "when things are good". The EA partner was separated and had an adopted daughter, I honestly think that is what drew her to him. Because he had the "parental qualities" that I was lacking. I only had a year and a half to learn, to me that is not fair.

The more that I reflect, and the more opinions I get, the more I am second guessing myself that maybe the marriage just altogether a mistake. In all honesty I never thought I wanted kids of my own, but I thought I could deal with three that were not. A positive of this now is that I know I want children in my life, because I did truly grow to love my stepchildren and still do, they are great kids, especially given the cards they were dealt.

So in short, I have been a class A jackhole more than once in my life, and I really probably deserve evertyhing that has happened to me (except for the 50b and jail bit that was uncalled for). I still have a lot of soul searching to do. Minus the one email exchange I've been dark for almost a week, and obviously she doesn't care. Her grip on me loosens a bit each day, and I can feel myself being happier too. The thing is I would bet money that she is going to turn a 180 before it is all said and done. At this rate she may end up being the one that is too late. I love her with all my heart but there is only so much a man can take.

Thank you guys again for your feedback, I wish the best with your respective sitchs and will review and see if I can provide any kind words or constructive feedback. :-)

[~ kd ~]

OK, broken... that was an interesting read...

So, you figure you were MLC...

brute force honesty here, man... what do you think about you, now...?

Do you really think you were MLC? I'm asking, not judging or questioning... Do you really believe you were?

Do you really believe that you are no longer MLC if you were, and that this M that started from an MLC really is something that you want to keep working on?

[Broken74]

Thanks Kaffe!

When I hit my goal weight I went straight out and bought myself a Mitsubishi Eclipse convertible, so I honestly do feel I was having a MLC, albeit early... lol Ironically I never noticed only women drive that car until I bought one, geez!!!

I don't feel I actually grew into "myself" until my body was finally in shape for the first time in my life. I grew up as the fit kid, constantly picked on, never dated in high school or went to the prom. First girlfriend in college, my first wife was my second serious relationship and third sex partner. So basically when I got in shape, I sort of went from being the chubby laid-back, even keel guy that everybody liked, to this kind of self centered, cocky jerk. I honestly do think I was in the midst of an early MLC. I determined that marriage was not for me, especially the one that I felt I went into for the wrong reasons based on convenience, and I wanted to bounce. And I got my wish.

Now you asked what do I think about me now. I still don't think I like myself or I never would have said the things I said to my current wife. I never said anything inappropriate to my first wife. I honestly think somehow in my sick mind I may have felt justified at some level because of all of the "things" that I did and all of the weight I was carrying in the marriage, because I was supporting the three kids in every way their biological fathers were not. That's a lot to swallow you know? And then there is remorse of how I made my first wife feel. She was willing to forgive the EA and fought and fought to get me and our marriage back. I wasn't at all interested, considered it one time and went back for a week and then bolted again. I went back because aside from no physical attraction/sex life, we made a great team and could probably both retired at 45 if we would have set our minds to it. I determined it wasn't worth it. I see her out from time to time and she won't acknowledge my existence. I don't blame her and I wish her nothing but happiness. Now I know how I made her feel because I'm going through exactly the same thing from the other side. Karma by definition right?

I don't think this marriage was started "by" the MLC though. I literally was dating 10 women simultaneously at one time, bad I know. So it wasn't like I was worried being lonely. My wife truly showed me what love was, I had never a feeling like the one we had when things her right. Despite the other aspects of her life that made me think twice, I could not let her go. That is why I am here, and I get mad and think otherwise but nothing would make happier right than for her to show up at my door wanting to give me a hug. I know that's not going to happen, and I force myself to expect that it never will, but I hope that it does, at this moment anyway.

So what am I Kaffe, I am a stage 10 freaking mess man... I have been since August of last year, and I will be for the forseeable future. Wanting my wife back one minute and so ticked ready to so screw it the next minute.

Tomorrow is another day though and I thank you again for your reading and guiding questions and hope your sitch is getting better.

P.S. Does anyone have feedback on how long it generally takes to see a real reation to the LRT? I am a week in tomorrow, have only got one "business" related email from her and otherwise she appears to care less. I know I am in a marathon not a sprint, but should I think a month, three months? Thanks again and God Bless!!

[~ kd ~]

thank you. Again, I get the honesty and fair assessment in your post.

To answer your question about LRT, understand it is for YOU. Yes, your W will react, but to you it may appear as anger and spew, rather than codling love. I don't think it would be unfair to say you could see results almost immediately... although it may take a few weeks for your W to realize that it is real...

But like I said, LRT is for you, to get yourself emotionally on track so that you can start thinking "straight" and make some clear, concise, and positive changes in yourself because your focus is no longer centred on your W, but narrowly focused on you becoming the best you can be and a man that only a fool would leave...

but let me ask you another hard question. An brute honest answer is all I ask...

What about your X? Where is she at, these days, in your thoughts...?

[Broken74]

Hey Kaffe,

To be honest, she rarely crosses my mind. Not in terms of missing or her or missing that marriage anyway. We still have a lot of mutual friends, but I'm certain we will never socialize again, and I am ok with that, because in all honesty that is what I deserve. I think of her in terms of my guilt, for the things I did to her. The fact of the matter is there was no passion or fire in our marriage at all. That realtionship made me think that I was subpar lover etc that I later found out was not the case/greatly affected my self esteem. I didn't know what passionate sex and true love were until I was out of that marriage, I found passionate sex with other women and true love with the best sex ever with my current wife.

The main thing that I think about is that I had the opportunity to do the right thing, but I didn't do it, and she deserved the right thing done by her. I knew when the marriage was over in my mind. Point blank, I am very sexual person and she was not. We had a number of things in common, but when the sexual realtionship is not good, for me that is a problem. I realize as we get older that that goes down the tubes etc, but that doesn't change the fact that is very important to me now. I should have told her I wanted out before I acted on her "if you want...then" statement. Obviously that was an idiotically selfish, irresponsible, and spiteful move. I basically just left and left her everything (no kids makes it easier), probably about $150k to the good, and in my warped mind that is how I can justify sleeping at night.

I truly believe in karma and that you reap what you sow. I am paying the piper now with interest... Truth be told I have been such a jerk to so many that I really don't deserve any woman, but as you said it is time for me to work on being the best man I can be, and by my calculations I have 8 months to do it before putting a bow on this one.

Thank you again Kaffe :-)

[hope2011]

Broken, you sound a lot like my H and his complaints about money (he makes 10x what I do by nature of our careers and when he lost his job due to the market crash, he resented me for not making more). His resentment made me #1 resent him, #2 rewrite history because I *thought* he loved me despite how little money I make, #3 lose respect for him because all he cared about was money. His self-esteem is wrapped up in how much money he makes, sounds like yours is too? Guess what? If a woman loves you, she doesn't care how much money you make or what you could buy her. And women want to be loved the same way... without a price tag or a bank account.

What if you took money out of the equation totally? Just stop measuring success based on money, objects, early retirement or bankruptcy. Take care of bills of course but don't obsess over them or what you did for her or paid for, etc. Stop buying her things. Stop resenting what you already bought.

Use all that energy on working on the REAL substance of a man.... kindness, honesty, integrity, etc.

I was no angel during my first marriage either and beat myself up a lot and consider it "karma" I'm dealing with so much now in my 2nd marriage. I hear you on that! But at some point we both have to forgive ourselves and move on or we're destined to keep repeating that. If you asked your XW for forgiveness, asked God (or whomever you believe in) and you have stopped the behavior you need forgiveness for.... then the slate is clean. Let it go. All you can be is the best person you are TODAY. Now remind me of that when I need to hear that too!

[Rick1963]

Broken I just read your story and I thought I was reading about myself. We are pretty similar in behavior and history. I tell you that we can change, it is hard work but has to happen. Really, I have the same fears, that I will hurt some one again. So keep at it

[Broken74]

Thanks Hope and Rick for your responses!

Hope you are right, my stressing over finances certainly did not help our relationship at all. My self esteem is a tricky thing, I would have to agree that my livelihood certainly does factor into it. I hear everything that you are saying and agree with it wholeheartedly.

Rick, I appreciate your kind words as well, and you are right we will get it done :-).

So I was busy GAL this weekend. She texted me on Saturday afternoon with some business nonsense that I think she was just trying to feel out what I was doing. I let 5 hours pass before responding to her simply answering her questions and nothing more. Then she proceeded to call me Saturday evening. I didn't pick up her call, she didn't leave a message. We traded a couple of nondescript texts yesterday, I think this LRT might be working....

We'll see what happens...

Good luck to one and all in your respective sitch's!!!