Hi! I discovered this site a few days ago and have been reading & learning so much. I'm so grateful to everyone who has shared their stories, as it's so reassuring to know that i am not alone.
as some background, my husband and i have been married for 3 years/ together for 8. he just turned 30, and i'm about to turn 30 in a few months. i'd always felt as though i married my best friend and although we always had our share of petty fights and disagreements, i always thought that these were minor and not symptoms of a larger problem. in addition, in the past, i'd always thought we were in agreement wrt to having kids and starting a family.
fairly recently, my husband started displaying many of the characteristics of an MLC, but given his relatively young age (30), i was hoping to get your feedback on if i'm on the right track:
- we've been fighting a lot lately for various reasons, such as he is no longer sure that he ever wanted kids - he's rewritten our history and has said that he is not sure if he ever loved me or has ever been completely honest with me - says that he's felt burdened his entire childhood (had to take care of his family financially when he was younger) and does not want to be furthered burdened by a family (wife & kids) - not sure if he wants to be married - says that he wants to be alone - currently acts as though he hates me and wants nothing to do with me. we'd always been a loving, close couple and now he flinches when i get close physically. rolls eyes & acts annoyed when I try to engage him in conversation. - says that he is angry all the time lately (but this seems to be directed just at me) - says that i am too needy & clingy (sees this as an added burden to him) - even though I have said that i will work on my issues, this does not seem to make a difference to him. - says he is not sure what will make him happy and thinks that being alone will be the solution to this
i guess my question is: how can i tell if this is truly a MLC or if this is just the normal breakdown of a marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with MLC/psychological reasons?
reasons why i think this may not be an MLC situation:
-he does not seem like he is depressed (he is functioning pretty well at work and socially & is friendly and normal to other people). the only person he is lashing out at is me. - his age is a lot younger than most MLC situations - there does not seem to be anyone else
to be honest, i'm kind of hoping that this IS an mlc situation, because I still love my husband so much, and this way, i have hope that he can get over this, and we can still have a future together. most days, i feel like this is such a small thing and that with some adjustments on both our parts, we can still be happy. but he seems to think this is a BIG thing, and can not be solved so easily. he has been spending a lot of time alone trying to figure out this "problem," which he has not been able to articulate to me.
thanks in advance for any insights you may have!!!
To answer your question specifically about MLC, the first thing to consider is, if this is MLC, would it affect your working on a solution to rebuild your M?
Second, one of the primary aspects of MLC is the C... Crises... and this is not an overt crises (ie. a problem in the M), rather this is an internal crises within the person them self. Just because they're re-examining what they want in life, does not necessarily mean they are in crises.
If you really want to believe it is MLC, then read up on as much MLC resources here (and there are other resources "out there" as well). Educate yourself on it if you feel it may be helpful.
As a consideration, look on this board and the DR book regarding the WAW syndrome. While it is often written as a gender specific situation, I feel as I believe others do, that it can relate to either gender.
And finally, if you truly do wish to reconcile and rebuild your M, it is highly recommended that we (the LBS) work on ourselves. Become the best person we can become at this time of opportunity to grow, and become a person that only a fool would leave. And if it helps save our M, bonus. And if we end up D, then it will help us in any future relationships we may have.
FWIW, I hoped my W was MLC... and when I learned as much as I could... I started wishing it wasn't... and what I found was... in many sitchs, it really isn't a cut and dried, black or white, thing... I'm still not 100% convinced my W is MLC, but there's certainly strong leanings...
So, questions for you:
+ other than the spew (and a significant number of us have been witness to that bunk), what are some of the actual complaints (valid or not, in your opinion) that your H has of you?
+ what are some things that you actually would like to change in yourself (that might be negative) or make better, that might benefit you in your M or help you in a general sense?
Hi MNC ... sorry that you have to deal with a sitch like this.
MLC is a difficult thing to "diagnose", but some of the things your H is saying does does seem MLC-ish, such as rewriting your history, not wanting to be touched, feeling burdened. Whether it is MLC or not, I would suspect there is OW involved. My H always denied it, until I found the emails ... their R was long distant. Is your H secretive and protective over his cell phone, or emails? That was a sign to me, and I found that out on this board. Does he blame you for everything? That's also MLC-ish, since it's impossible for one person to be at fault 100% of the time.
There is something happening here. Just step back and give him some space, and watch what happens. No R talk, no begging, no crying, no arguing. I started not getting upset when my H unthinkingly hurt my feelings ... would just turn around and walk away. Quite freeing, not defending oneself because, ultimately, it's pointless. Try getting a life (GAL) by going out without him, start/renew a hobby, join a club, have ladies night out (make sure you are dressed to kill), keep a positive mood, smile a lot. Keeping a journal might be a good idea too, so you can track changes, improvements or the reverse. You can even use this board to do that. I do because I don't want my H to find written journals at home.
Anyway, this is all I can think of, for now. First thing, step away, keep your distance emotionally speaking. I know it's hard, but this is a way to get through this. A start, anyway.
Take care.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
P.S. .... since you are turning 30, and the window of opportunity to start a family is, more or less, the next five years, I would suggest you understand what would be your bottom line. If he really doesn't want children, then you should give this R a long, hard look. It's almost a bait and switch situation, IMO. He, of course, can start a family way further into the future, if he changes his mind in later years.
I say this because a niece of mine waited ... her H was in the military and was killed in action ... now she is 40, and there is no possibility of her having any children. She had a hard time as it was, getting pregnant, and she miscarried just before he was sent overseas.
Just a thought.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
MLC is caused by major life changing events that serve as triggers: - death of a family member - loss of a job - getting older - empty nest - birth of a child
Your H has neither of those.
Not to say that there is someone else, but how can you be sure that there isn't someone? It could very well be that there is an EA and he's beginning to feel that the grass is greener on the other side.
Write out in detail the things that he complains about. Forget about the snarky comments about you being "clingy". You may come off like that to him because you're trying to save your M. What have you been arguing about?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
MY suggestion is to read up on MASKED depression, this can be part of MLC and from what you have written sounds very plausible with what is going on with you husband.
All of that just becomes part of your knowledge. Not really much you can DO to FIX this. Work on self and get on living YOUR life.
So far you have gotten good advice. Keep posting and learning.
thanks so much everyone for your thoughtful replies! you've given me a lot to think about & consider. to answer your questions:
kaffe diem:
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
So, questions for you:
+ other than the spew (and a significant number of us have been witness to that bunk), what are some of the actual complaints (valid or not, in your opinion) that your H has of you?
+ what are some things that you actually would like to change in yourself (that might be negative) or make better, that might benefit you in your M or help you in a general sense?
- Some of the actual complaints that H has of me: not being neat enough (I’ve been working on this and actually have been tidier around the house and leaving common places clutter free); too clingy, insecure, too dependent on him; talk too much. - In response, I’ve been trying a lot of the tips suggested on this board & from michele’s books for the past 2 weeks. I’ve been GAL by rediscovering old hobbies, doing things alone that we used to do previously, working out, going to church alone, etc. I no longer initiate R talks and basically do not talk to him at all except for the basic niceties. I do feel slightly more empowered than before, but have yet to see these actions resulting in any tangible improvements to our sitch? Am I not giving this enough time, or is there something else I should be doing? Also, this is a 180 for me, as in the past, I was the pursuer, so backing off has been a big adjustment for me that has been pretty hard but is getting easier over time.
being me: thanks for your insights. While I’m not 100% positive, there is no one else, H hasn’t been doing anything too out of the ordinary – not too protective over his phone/emails and is always home after work. He is more secretive now than before due to our current sitch (ie as in does not communicate), but I haven’t seen any other red flags. I think for my own sanity right now, I’m just going to believe him that there is no OP, and to just focus on our other issues and working on myself. Am definitely taking a big step back and giving H LOTS of space & working on GAL (at least I have been for the past 2 weeks). no improvements yet (in fact, after I started implementing these changes, H has gotten even MORE distant) – is this normal (for things to seemingly get worse before they get better?
also, in terms of the family thing – I think part of our arguments was caused due to my freaking out that I’m almost 30 and feeling the pressure of my narrowing biological clock. Right now, I’m not 100% positive that I would want a child at the expense of my marriage, although this point is moot if he wants out of the marriage I guess.
mrbond: as some background, his mother did pass away at a relatively young age 3 years ago. He has mentioned that he does not want to be like his mom (passing away young before being able to enjoy his life). Could something from 3 years ago trigger MLC now if he has never really processed his feelings about this? To be honest, I’m not entirely sure what our hot button arguments are aside from having children (which up to a year ago, he had been on board with). His other complaints include that I’m too messy, too clingy, insecure, nag too much, etc. I’ve been making progress in all of these areas, but have not seen an abatement in his anger/resentment, which kind of makes me wonder if his anger/resentment at me is a mask for other issues?
Cadet: From my preliminary googling on masked depression, it seems that masked depression is depression that manifests itself in physical ailments? Or am i missing something? He hasn’t seemed to have any more physical ailments than before. I tried doing a board search, but it says that i can’t access the search engine
Again, I just wanted to thank you guys for taking the time to read/offer your insights.
Other questions I have: I've been following the DB tips (lovingly distance; GAL; being more independent; no more R talks, 180, etc), and honestly things seem to be getting worse (he seems to be even more distant, withdrawn, and angry at me). is it normal for things to get worse before they get better?
in one of the threads i read, one of the causes for MLC is if someone represses their feminine side/masculine side. i wonder if this is true in our sitch since H has always been very career oriented and does not place much on emotions & feelings. if this is true, is there anything i can do to get him to "embrace his emotional side"?
i know there really isnt much i can do, except work on myself, but is getting past MLC (assuming that this is what it is), something that happens naturally on its own whether or not H realizes it? or does H need to realize he is going through an MLC befoe he can address these issues head on. because obviously, he does not think he is going through an MLC. he knows he is unhappy, but is not sure why, and is using our marriage as a scapegoat in a sense...
- Some of the actual complaints that H has of me: not being neat enough (I’ve been working on this and actually have been tidier around the house and leaving common places clutter free); too clingy, insecure, too dependent on him; talk too much.
Just to bring this forward right now, we like to remind people not to mind read our spouses. Having said that disclaimer, I want you to look at the complaints you say your H had, which of them do you believe are actually "valid" complaints?
Originally Posted By: mncwng
- In response, I’ve been trying a lot of the tips suggested on this board & from michele’s books for the past 2 weeks. I’ve been GAL by rediscovering old hobbies, doing things alone that we used to do previously, working out, going to church alone, etc. I no longer initiate R talks and basically do not talk to him at all except for the basic niceties.
The above are great, although dig a little deeper. What things would you actually like to change or make better in yourself?
ie. I lack self confidence so I want to take some courses in public speaking. Or, I am not very adventurous with food, so I will try out one new type of food every week.
Things like that...
Originally Posted By: mncwng
I do feel slightly more empowered than before, but have yet to see these actions resulting in any tangible improvements to our sitch? Am I not giving this enough time, or is there something else I should be doing? Also, this is a 180 for me, as in the past, I was the pursuer, so backing off has been a big adjustment for me that has been pretty hard but is getting easier over time.[/quot]
As you learn to be patient in the process, you are likely to be reminded over and over and over and over and... this is not a quick fix. There are no known quick fixes for M breakdowns. It is a lot of hard work, will take time, and will challenge you in ways you didn't know you had the constitution to survive.
This will likely take not mere months, but measured in at least 1/2 years. You may see changes within a week or two of any specific change you make. So doing to many things at a time is likely to skew results in the same way that changing things up too fast will show no results. Time + consistency = results in this equation. When you see positive changes, keep doing what you are doing. If you see negative changes, stop doing what you are doing and do something different.
[quote=mncwng]Other questions I have: I've been following the DB tips (lovingly distance; GAL; being more independent; no more R talks, 180, etc), and honestly things seem to be getting worse (he seems to be even more distant, withdrawn, and angry at me). is it normal for things to get worse before they get better?
You are attempting to stop a freight train at full speed. It will take time to have it slow down... come to a full stop... and begin to reverse... This CAN show up as things appearing to be getting worse, before they get better... but they DO GET BETTER...
On the rest of your post, I have not heard anything about repressed male/female issues. Although any repressed issue, past trauma, childhood events, etc. do appear to be triggers for MLC. Even if it doesn't seem traumatic for us, if there are unresolved issues, they can be triggered and result in MLC. And no... there's nothing WE can do to FIX THEM. This is a journey they have to travel through and they have to do it themselves. Any interference from us can delay their journey.
It appears to be observable that some MLC never gets resolved. If a person continues to refuse to work through their issues, they will remain stuck in them. Of course, some people appear to have no concern about becoming "better" and grow and that again is regardless of whether there is MLC or not. Some people are simply content to be who they are.
Take your time, be patient, do the work for yourself. One or two major changes in yourself and observe your H's behaviour over a two week period. If good progress, keep doing what you are doing and add one or two more things. If negative progress, stop doing what you are doing and try two more things. If no progress, keep doing what you are doing because you want to keep the changes and add a couple more changes. As we say... and then... rinse and repeat...
I do feel slightly more empowered than before, but have yet to see these actions resulting in any tangible improvements to our sitch? Am I not giving this enough time, or is there something else I should be doing? Also, this is a 180 for me, as in the past, I was the pursuer, so backing off has been a big adjustment for me that has been pretty hard but is getting easier over time.
As you learn to be patient in the process, you are likely to be reminded over and over and over and over and... this is not a quick fix. There are no known quick fixes for M breakdowns. It is a lot of hard work, will take time, and will challenge you in ways you didn't know you had the constitution to survive.
This will likely take not mere months, but measured in at least 1/2 years. You may see changes within a week or two of any specific change you make. So doing to many things at a time is likely to skew results in the same way that changing things up too fast will show no results. Time + consistency = results in this equation. When you see positive changes, keep doing what you are doing. If you see negative changes, stop doing what you are doing and do something different.
