Thanks Sandi2 for asking. I'm doing okay. Our sons are back at school and my W and have been working most of the week. I know you and 25 took the time to respond to my post, and I really appreciate the feedback. Your insight is invaluable to those of us on this board.
I replied to your responses, trying to fill in some of the details. New at this forum correspondence medium, it can be hard to convey your precise meaning sometimes.
My question, when it comes to DB, is with the GAL part. It would be good for me to take a class, piano lessons, go out with friends. I have tried with some of these as I've described in an earlier post and they usually result in a negative reaction from my W. An example would be a weekend back in December when my W went to SEA to test some skeet shotguns. There happened to be a poker game with my co-workers that same weekend and about 18 of us went. i told my W I was going and initially she said have a good time. When she got back however, the negative comments started. "Now you are going to poker night, who are you", etc...followed by cursing. She wasn't in town, I thought this is what DB recommends, get out, don't sit around alone. But all it does is make her mad.
Do a 180, try new things right? I had tofu at lunch today with her. I never eat tofu, she has always wanted me to try it. Actually I had it once before this past summer when my W and I had Thai food in Chicago. Yet she doesn't remember that, and so she gets mad today about me ordering tofu. "I don't even know who you are anymore" she said. "Who did you order tofu with, I've never seen you eat it before. You are such a liar". I don't argue with her, I don't really respond other than say "I wish I had tried it sooner, It's good. I should have listened to your recommendation". Is that the right way to deal with the issue?
Do I continue with GAL and 180's even if they get a negative reaction from my W? I must say it seems as if my wife wants nothing to do with me yet doesn't want me to do anything either.
Here is how my weekend went, Saturday, I spent doing some housework (laundry, cleaning, etc). My W spent much of the time on the computer or iPhone, she has a couple of games she enjoys. We then ate lunch together - I made her an omelet. We watched the NFL playoffs for much of the Denver game and then rented a movie on Apple tv - "Midnight in Paris". Pretty much spent the whole day together. Most of it good interaction, occasionally she mention how she will do this or that when she moves to Dallas. Especially the weather and how she can't wait to get out from this cold (-17 today).
Sunday - I went and got her a mocha and cinnamon roll at the local coffee shop since she had a craving for something sweet. She is going to Hawaii in Feb with her Mom, so we went shopping for swim suits. We spent 3 hours shopping together, she would try things on and ask me what I thought. When some of the suits didn't fit she stayed in the dressing room while I was sent to get something different. Nothing like the sight of a 6'5" man sorting through women's swimming suits, we laughed about that. Nothing negative until the lunch and I made the mistake of ordering tofu. We then went to a movie at the theater (War Horse). The movie theme of horses was why my W wanted to see it, but it got so brutal and bloody at the end my W got up and left. I made some dinner for her, then she went to her room and tried on the swim suits to show me how they looked. Just before she went to bed she had me put lotion on her back since the cold really dries out her skin. I sat and rubbed her back for a little while she played a game on her iPhone, she wanted me to help solve some of the levels. Then she went to bed.
My wife works the next three days and then goes home to see her parents over the weekend. I'm actually going to fly this week, I have a 3 day layover in HNL. I need a break. Between work and my personal situation, I'm tired. It will be fun to get out and do something I'm good at.
Another question to Sandi2 or 25, am I spending to much time with my W? Am I to available? I am only around if she wants me to be. There is only physical contact if it is a back rub, foot rub, lotion, or scratching(she really likes her head scratched). Is this okay if she wants it? What is the rule of thumb on this?
Does it seem like we spend a lot of time together? This has been perplexing to both my counselors. They have said that with most WAW's, they are done and want nothing to do with you.
This weekend is fairly typical, we have dinner together most every night, talk some, etc. Every now and then something will get my W angry, usually relating to something I'm doing now that I don't usually do.
Day to day, it feels as if nothing is changing, but compared to 3 months ago, it seems better. So what is your opinion, am i on the right path? Is this all superficial to her or does she like the time spent together?
I'm not ignoring you but I just found your post and have to ponder it.
I will say this about her comment to you re; how you made all the mistakes on her and now some OW will get the benefit of all her work.
it means she cares about that possibility AND believes you could change.
Those are positives.
also consider changing companies. You are not in the military now so there is not Stop Loss preventing you from CHOOSING differently...
and if you short sell your house, see what the banks rights are up there? Here all they get is the house, they cannot come after you for savings. I only say that^^^ so you don't lose a marriage to keep a house...if your w doesn't want to sell it at a loss she may need to stick around and help it look decent.
Boarding school---okay if you say so and if your son is happy, but I'd die if all my kids were gone at that age as it's hard enough for me now with 2 in/out of college and only one left at home...you barely see him....
empty nest syndrome is real and she probably has that going on too...
more later
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
After you answered all those questions from my first post, (thanks, btw) I think your W is extremely insecure in her MR. I also believe her self-esteem is very low. I'm not saying that you caused any of those issues. In fact, I suspect she had them when the two of you M. It was b/c of those issues that she thought the two of you would be D in 6 mo. It was b/c of those issues she locked herself in the bathroom. If I had to guess, your inappropriate behavior gave her a false message that she couldn't trust you and/or she wasn't all you needed or wanted in a woman.
Women can be at the top in their profession but it doesn't necessarily give the confidence as a woman. IMHO, her ego was fed by her shooting coach and when she discovered how good that felt, it drove her to other directions.....such as the man in TX. I doubt she gave the first coach the boot, but more than likely it was the other way around.
I can tell you from experience that this can very quickly lead to an EA and that it is extremely addictive. Whenever you discover your W hiding a phone under the bed covers, it's more than just friendship! She told you the truth when she said it was fun, but she didn't tell you the whole truth!
It will be hard for her to stop this behavior, but certainly not impossible. I think she's discovered this is an escape from her unhappiness.
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My question, when it comes to DB, is with the GAL part. It would be good for me to take a class, piano lessons, go out with friends. I have tried with some of these as I've described in an earlier post and they usually result in a negative reaction from my W.
Does she feel negative about all of those things or just the poker? Was it that or does she not want you doing anything without her? Why would she care if she's out of town? GAL is for you, but I don't think you should do something your W is against. Has she always been this way whenever you wanted to GAL?
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and so she gets mad today about me ordering tofu.
This is when you need a sense of humor! Be funny or throw it back at her (not the anger) but don't let her get the best of the situation. She's controlling you by her anger!
For example:
Wife: "I don't even know who you are anymore"
You: "I know, right? It's crazy! There's no telling what I may do next!"
Wife: "Who did you order tofu with, I've never seen you eat it before. ".
You: "I think I just ordered it with you, darling. First time for everything. And you thought I was hopeless!"
Wife: "You are such a liar" You: "Hey, this stuff isn't half bad, want a bite?"
Now, that might not be something you would say, so use your personality......just tune it up to fit.
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I don't really respond other than say "I wish I had tried it sooner, It's good. I should have listened to your recommendation". Is that the right way to deal with the issue?
Yeah, there you go! Ha!
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occasionally she mention how she will do this or that when she moves to Dallas
How do you respond to those type jabs? I may be very wrong, but I'm wondering if she is a controller. It would make sense that she'd have that need to be in control, if her brother molested her. I'm not a professional, but she seems to control you pretty well by getting mad. Does she do the same way with her parents? That may be why she doesn't have many female friends.
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am I spending to much time with my W? Am I to available? I am only around if she wants me to be. There is only physical contact if it is a back rub, foot rub, lotion, or scratching(she really likes her head scratched). Is this okay if she wants it? What is the rule of thumb on this?
Not sure how much time you're together, but the main thing is that there should be time apart to do things independently from each other. If you find yourself doing whatever she wants all the time.....then you need to be less available, for sure! And if that causes her to pitch a fit, then let her pitch.
As for the physical contact, you do whatever you want about that, so long as she wants it too.
What does your counselors think about her cursing? Could be all the male companions she has, IDK. I just think it's more than that.
I don't know that she's the typical WAW. I think she needs therapy.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Just got back from flying yesterday. It was good to get out of town for a few days, temperatures have been below zero for the last week. Thought I would update my situation.
My W is in TN with her parents. Her mom's birthday is tomorrow and she is going to surprise her. She is also going to HNL next month with her mom.
Sandi2, you asked if she was a controller. When I discussed some of the texts my wife had sent me on Xmas with my counselor, she read me some symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. She was careful not to diagnose anything but said my W certainly tries to control me with anger.
We have since discussed some things in the past that I hadn't put together. I viewed them as isolated incidents but looking back they seem to be a precursor to the behavior today. Soon after we were married, my W was upset (I don't remember the reason) and she kicked the side of my truck in. There was another time when she threw all my clothes over the balcony while yelling at me. Back in 2003, she told me she grew her wedding ring out in the field because she didn't want it anymore. It turned out that she really didn't, she just wanted to get at me (again, I don't remember the reason for the argument).
My W has certainly had her reasons to be upset with me, and I am continually wiling to accept responsibility for my faults. However, these reactions do seem a little extreme. There have been more. While talking with a friend and his wife relating some of these incidents, they stopped me and said this is not normal behavior. His wife said this is not how a relationship deals with problems.
My father is a mixture of George Patton and Archie Bunker. He is 86 years old and from that greatest generation. My brother and I were yelled at a lot growing up. I soon learned to do anything to not make my father angry.
Now I feel the same with my wife. I think I've felt that way for awhile. I know that maybe I turned to work as a refuge from home because I was tired of always being wrong.
I'm not making excuses, I really wish I had handled this better. I didn't communicate well with my W. I've read "The Passion Trap", and I can relate from the "one down" perspective in our relationship.
Back to her parents; she didn't talk to her parents for about a year. This past summer she finally called and said she missed talking to her mom. Her mom and her have had a rocky relationship. She is the only daughter and is the youngest. Her parents and I don't have a good relationship, at least for a while. When we were first married, we got along fine. I loved going to their house and spending time there. My W's family are all military, Army or Air Force. We had a lot in common. It was when I made the decision to leave the military and we started to do well financially that I sensed a change.
It doesn't help either that my W would express all of our arguments/problems to her mom. Of course now that she wants a divorce they said it is about time, "he doesn't treat you well" etc. They have swooped right in to save the day. They have never been that involved with my 2 sons, but now they want to fly them down to spend time in TN or FL with them.
The fact is though, her mom exhibits some of the same anger issues. She likes to control her family with her money. She has always tried to buy everything for her grandchildren. We have lived in ANC for 4 years, yet they never made an attempt to come see their daughter or grandsons.
I told my Db coach that I've been the only one in the family that has stood up to her. Only when I had to but she was out of line with my two sons on occasion and I let her know it( and my W backed me up too). So now I'm the black sheep. It is interesting that my MIL has had problems with both of her DIL's. They have never been good enough for there sons.
I guess where I'm going with this is my W is back with her family and I feel they will only enforce her negative views toward me.
It is interesting that whenever my W has been out of town, the contact is minimal. Yet when I went to fly, she wanted to make sure she said goodbye on the phone. Texted me "have you landed yet", texted from work, etc. She even texted to be careful and stay dry. That was the first expression of concern toward me in a long while.
When my wife was packing for her trip I was downstairs but could still her her talking. She wasn't talking to anybody, just out loud. Swearing mostly. I started counting, she said the F word over 50 times. It was a continual stream of "F this", "F me", "F you", "I hate my "F" life", "I don't know what to F**ing wear" etc. Again, I wasn't in the room nor did she know I was downstairs and could hear her. Wow!
My wife started having hot flashes a year ago, and her period has stopped and started. She is either menopausal or peri-menopausal.
We are empty-nesters, and our sons are fairly far away.
She turns 49 next month, it, along with cancer, certainly have made her acutely aware of her mortality.
We live in a place she hates, and she is leaving for Dallas. Although it doesn't seem like she is in any hurry to leave.
As my DB coach said, I'm in the middle of the perfect storm.
Both Sandi2 and 25, you have said there is hope, or positive signs anyway. Sometimes I feel that way, but other times I feel that she is done. She has such a negative view of me, I don't know how to overcome it.
DB coach said it was okay to do GAL things, what do I have to lose? She going to be upset no matter what you do, so do what you want.
I'm going to take some classes online and study for the GRE, then start my masters. It is something I've wanted to do for a while now. I need to start moving forward with my life ad come to grips with the fact that she may not be part of it.
So what happens when and if she goes to Dallas? Does time away help or hurt the situation? She claims when she is away she doesn't miss me, we don't have a relationship and haven't had for a while. Is this true or her manipulating me again?(Nothing you hear and 50% of what you see right).
After divorce, 25, how do I sweep her off her feet unless she wants me too? Is that something that happens, divorce and re-marry? Will she get to TX and realize maybe I wasn't so bad after all? I'm not counting on it.
I really love my wife. I would like to spend the rest of my life with her. But not this relationship. We need to start a new and better relationship. I know I can be and have been a much better husband.
Right now I feel like I'm in love with a Momma Grizzly who has lost her cubs. I warily keep my distance, but wanting to get closer. But every time I move closer, I get mauled. (Alaskan metaphor)
Do you think I'm on the right path? I don't react to my W's behavior, I treat her as my best friend. If she asks me to do something I will do it for her, as I would my friends.
It seems as if we are stuck, she is just waiting to move to Dallas this spring, we will be divorced by then she insists. I try not to get involved with future discussions but I'm going to need to make some decisions regarding our sons school here shortly. Anytime I bring it up she doesn't want to address it.
She assumes that I will pay for their school while she will suffer financially on her own. Do I continue with what I'm doing, waiting for her to file, but be there for her for what she needs?
Maybe "lost her cubs" wasn't what I intended, more like they are growing up and on their own. But again was just looking for insight, maybe there is progress, I'm just to close to see it.
So when she acts out with anger, you do what? Ignore it, keeping on going as nothing happened?
Do you see yourself as trying to just get along with her and look the other way when she is displaying cr@p behavior?
What are you doing that is different from when she bashed in the side of your truck?
How do you respond when she talks about moving to Dallas?
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If she asks me to do something I will do it for her, as I would my friends.
Do you have friends that treats you like she does?
In a past post you said you were the only one who has ever stood up to her. I think you mentioned you had to do it a couple of times? How did she react to that?
What does your DB coach advise about waiting until she files? Has the coach given you any solution based thoughts about what to do while you wait on your W?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'm currently reading "no more Mr Nice Guy". I can see I fall into the "always trying to avoid conflict" type. In the initial stages of our relationship, probably the first 10 years at least, I always tried to avoid conflict with my W. I am always the one to apologize, avoid bringing things up for fear of making my W mad etc.
I can see that I've spent much of my marriage living in fear of making my W angry. I deserved some of it, I certainly didn't handle it well. But I can also see that at some point I felt like I couldn't never seem to please her and that is when I started to engross myself with work. It was easier to be at work than to deal with her at home. Again, I know that it was the wrong thing to do.
I made a comment to my W last summer, I said "i'm happy go lucky at work, I get along with everybody, I'm funny, friendly etc". She got very upset at that comment, and I have finally started to see how I am myself at work, completely at ease and totally confident. At home, I am walking on eggshells, l feel the same anxiety that I had when my father yelled at us.
Recently, I don't ignore her anger. My DB coach said I need to acknowledge the anger, let her know I have heard her, then move on. In some cases, like the vile texts she sent me on Xmas, I respond with one text stating why I sent the photo and then let it be. She continued to text me through the night with escalating angry statements, "I hate you, I wish I never said I didn't", "your are a poor excuse for a man, husband and father". When it gets like this I don't reply at all. I don't know if there is any appropriate reply.
When my W brings up Dallas, it is usually inserted as part of another conversation. She will be talking about the dogs and then "I can't take care of both of them when I move to Dallas" etc. Whenever she gets feed back on her job hunting from her friends in Dallas, she is very quick to let me know. She doesn't usually text much when she is at work, but she will immediately let me know via text that she has a phone appointment with a recruiter etc. I just say "that's greta".
My W is a highly experienced nurse. She could have a job in Dallas tomorrow if she wanted. She is on her fifth job in 4 years here in ANC. She changes jobs a lot, Either she doesn't care for the people she works with or the hours etc. But she always gets hired. I have no doubt she could be employed in Dallas by next week with out her friends help.
My counselor has said that when this stuff comes up, leave the room. To be available for her to talk about it. I have asked some logistical questions, how are you going to get there, what are you taking. Where will the boys be this summer. She gets agitated, says she doesn't have a plan. She said "I don't know what I'm doing, I haven't done anything yet. I haven't even left yet". I'm a slow learner but I've stopped asking.
I have been worried about my sons school, what will happen this fall. But my wife doesn't seem care at all. She has said it will be my responsibility, she will be in the poor house and will need all her income to live on. She doesn't seem to care about anything right now. Even her skeet shooting, she doesn't do any more. She was on a girls league team, but she just stopped going and totally blew them off. It is as if she is tired of everything, like she said "I hate my F****** life".
I want her to be happy, I asked her if moving to Dallas will be want will make her happy. She said "No, I will be as miserable, but at least I will be alone instead of in a loveless marriage".
No Sandi2, I don't have any friends that treat me the way she does. But then with my DB coach and you and 25's replies, I am empathetic to my wife's feelings. I haven't met her needs in the marriage. So I feel like I deserve the anger, that she needs to vent and I shouldn't avoid it. Is that the wrong way to look at it?
Like I said before, both DB coaches have said they feel like my wife really doesn't want a divorce. What she really wants is my attention. But my DB coach says I need to be fearless, and she will be angry no matter what I do so continue with GAL.
Another note, I said I was the only one in the family to stand up to my MIL. My W is still at her parents, haven't heard from her in two days. How do you contend with her parents and friends all telling her to get out of the marriage?
Kind of short on time right now, so I may finish posting later. I agree with the coach/counselor. Your W is too quick to tell you about Dallas and that she'll be leaving, yada....yada. It's like she's throwing the alarm flags all around and trying to get you to do something.
What would be that something?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
