Too Little, Too late 3

[purgatory]

I wanted to respond to this great post from 25, she gave me some insights and a little hope. Her original post is in red, my responses are purple.

There are some behavioral tips I'll post here that helped me when my mind was on the freeway and couldn't "take the damn exit ramp"...
you will need to take the exit soon so you can get to the "scenic overlook", take stock and NOT REACT - but make a "campaign plan" and implement it...
DB coaches are great for that, and if your IC isn't, ask her to be. You need "instructions" more or less.
My IC is pretty good about giving me a 'task list'... I have a rough time always sticking to it. I fall back into old habits and this makes me mad because those *habits* are what led to the break-up in the first place, so really don't need to give H anymore ammunition with our current sitch.

Purg, First, be brave & strong now or you won't learn what you have to learn in order to make it....but look at this with all the honesty and insight you can, if only just for a minute...take a breath & see how your h sees most of the past 6 years...and check your first post if you need to, but if you want to get a scorecard out for justices/injustices in the marriage, would you really come out far ahead? In his eyes, he has the high ground for now. [i]And for now, maybe he does. How can you change that? Change YOU...[/i]
[color:#6600CC]Nope. I have more negatives that positives right now. I never thought about the idea of him thinking he has the 'high ground'- through that filter, a lot of his words make more sense.

Per my Godsent DB coach
Hard lesson #1--it is NOT the spouses job to show their WAS the "consequences of their actions" or "teach them a lesson".
I've been guilty of thinking this ^^^. I wish I could afford to call a DB coach right now.

Aside from it looking punitive (which it is, and which you already know AND which backfires big time every time)

LIFE does this for us!
The WAS will learn the hard way if they choose a bad path & stay on it. They will face numerous explanations for how they met, and the KIDS WILL KNOW forever...and their r's w/their own children will never be what they could have been. YOU cannot be the one to tell them this, or predict it to your h, or you will be vilified and seen as the cause.
I really hope you're right about this. I have not been able to convince my self that he will ever feel guilty about explaining his choices.

instead, if you behave like the dignified woman who has been punched in the stomach but STILL picks herself up, dusts herself off, & puts her kids ahead of her pride without losing her self respect, YOU will prevail over time.
I wish I could accept how LONG of time this will actually take. In another post (the WAW to LBS) She said how "6 months of changes and being a better you, doesn't make up for all the years of rejections and hurt." I think I fall into this category- I expect that he will be pleased that I made such a quick turn around and take me back... not gonna happen.


TIPS for congitive behavior therapy (aka 25's "mind control" secrets)
1) stop sign for evil thoughts....Put it in your head that you have to STOP this, and be discplined enough to stop it, if only for a few minutes at a time.I try to do this when I have a task/moment with the kids. AS soon as I'm not distracted, the thoughts creep back in... I want to be able to stop it for longer periods of time.

The evil thoughts of revenge do not help your cause. Granted, there are LBSers who LOVE exploring their anger & they would say, "it's the JUSTICE of it all!" and "but I'm RIGHT and they are wrong!!..." but they forget that this is not about being right. It's about being happy Revenge won't help your cause or even give you peace. It only appeals to your anger and that's NOT helping you, your body, your children or your m.
I will need to read this paragraph over and over until it's tattooed on my brain.

2) Every day in the shower or wherever you can gain some privacy, say out loud "God, I turn my pain and anger over to you. I lay this marriage in your hands"...
Some days, I said this literally 100 times, esp right before h would call. It helped calm me and thinking it, saying it and hearing it somehow make it sink in...
The shower has been my only solace. It's the only place that no one bothers me and I can block out the sounds of my house. I usually try to get all my crying out in there, so H can't hear me and I won't have the evidence of mascara running down my face.

3) come up with other helpful mantras and do them as well. Such as"I only control now and 'from this day forward'. Help me be my best NOW"... I'd put some self help books or some of Marianne Williamson's books on my IPOD and would go on LONG walks (aka "25's Fury Marches") b/c she has written a lot on "Handling Fear & Anger" and though she's new agey for some, for ME she helped with this exact issue. HOW to let go and begin healing and forgiving...
I'll look her up and give it a try- I'm willing to try ANYTHING at this point!

Also had playlists for grief so sometimes I could let go and cry hard about it but only in a safe place.
I have that same kind of playlist too... I listen to it in the shower.


First of all- it IS mostly a positive that he's sharing these things, overrall, as much as it sukks to hear. Second, your reaction MATTERS so don't lose it or rant. I LOVE that he has noticed.
[color:#6600CC]He's mentioned and noticed a lot of my changes. He's even said: "I like this [purg] much better." I said: "I like her too." It kills me inside to know that even with all of his recognition, it doesn't change his mind.

Adopt the two phrases that validate, without escalating, and which show change on YOUR End...
plus - no offense--but your memory is either conveniently self serving when it comes to forgetting your outbursts AND OR
you had some untreated diagnosis that YOU WILL GET treatment for, so it will NOT keep happening, and he can trust that will change your behavior & it will be credible....make sense?
Makes complete sense. I have not forgotten what I did to get into this sitch, in fact, I've never tried to justify or make excuses when he brings things up. I've only recently become aware of my fugue states (and they haven't happened in a long time and will be fixed with my heart/lung issues. My doctor's and C have worked together to identify and help me.) I have come to accept that his version of our history, is different that my version... but it's *his* that I need to address.

1) so for the marital revisions that surprise you, you say
"H, I don't recall it that way (or at all) but I'm so sorry you were hurt/upset."
2) for the memories he brings up that are valid, the fights or the times he was hurt that you recall or believe, or concede are possible, say
"Sorry H, if I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
I've said similar things to him, but I do good when I have a 'script' to follow- I will try to learn these phrases and use them.

You are very welcome. I had the vital help of some peeps on this board who remain here btw, from time to time. THey guided me through this and gave me hope.
Why do I believe there is hope in your sitch? (yes I do believe that)
WHAT?? REALLY?? I'm surprised that you can see this 'working out'... I'll lean on your hopes for now.

B/c as the mother of his children, the choice to be with OW (or "DIP OP" or aka POS bf) means that he must justify it often.
Is this what he's doing when he brings up things like:"I've felt alone for 6 years, I'm done with that." "If I don't have to be alone, I won't be" "I can't get past all the hurt, and there is no way we will ever be more than friends." ???

IF your changes are real and lasting, and not merely tactics to get him back,[/b]
that gets to be VERY difficult to sustain. Essentially he'll have to tell himself
"So what if she's great and all I ever wanted her to be, now, and so what if the kids miss her and she misses them and I broke up my family? I deserve HAPPINESS!!" --and that gets harder to say out loud to others and to yourself...it just does.
I really hope it does. I can't ever imagine H having a hard time saying these things to himself or others.... think it will take years? Months? Will there be anyway that being in AFG (away from me and OW) will help to clarify things for him? I feel that he'll just miss her because of the 'fantasy' that he will be able to create in his mind about their R.

It begins to sound hollow and shallow and pretty damn selfish.
But know that just as that WAW felt about her h's "new outlook", for now, he does not believe your changes are lasting, but that they are tactics.
Only consistent change + sufficient time = Him believing the changes are real.
I wish we could put some numbers in that ^^^^ equation. But I know that no one has the crystal ball to know exactly how long this will take.

Whenever you lash out at him or rant, you confirm that it's just a tactic. When you disparage Dip Op, you put him in the position of having to defend her. Bad idea.
I did that the day I found out about her feelings. And yes he did defend her... which made me even more angry. It was a backslide that I immediately regretted. Can I recover his impression?

I would probably never mention her...seriously, I would not at this time, view her as anything but a "less than me, not worthy of mentioning"
I LOVE this! Yes! She isn't worth the breath that it would take to talk about her.

I don't see her having the fortitude of being newly single and not exploring other men...(heck, in her shoes - there's no way I would not date if I just got my freedom back.)
I think that's why she said: "I don't want to date right now, but in the future I could see that with [H]." She's a coward who can't even try to learn someone new- she has to jump to the easy target who she's already gotten to know as a friend. Coward! It's pathetic how the first guy who says he has an interest in her, she jumps on it. She needs to be validated ALL THE TIME and H said the 'magic words' to her.

She's thinking "yeah you're a great guy but um, you want me to wait around for you for a YEAR while you are sep from your family--and w who seems to be all groovy and calm now--b/c you SAY you are sure you want out, & you think you want to have a real r with me later on - but in the meantime I get to be lonely b/c I just lost my fake bff and now I can't date?? Gee that sounds appealing.
(And with her "character", I think he'll be surprised at how bad betrayal feels...)
OW is very insecure. She's never stood on her own two feet- always had a man to take care of her. She went from her family home, into a M at 19 with her H and has never worked outside the home. I'm afraid that she would sit around waiting for him, instead of putting herself out into the dating world- because she's needy. I really hope I'm wrong. But in his absence, I won't be there to be a friend to spend time with.... hopefully she will feel lonely.

Plus, when he contacts you and the kids, while I'd be scarce at first, b/c it's easier to notice changes when there is some space/time apart (as opposed to daily contact which I happen to think is a slower way to show changes b/c it's harder to create mystery) then I'd reveal the new you in pieces.
How do I 'reveal' over emails, phone or skype??

Part of that is going to be the "UBER ZEN Purg" who does NOT lose her cool or lash out b/c hey, she's different now...she has evolved, and changed. She has all the great attractive traits that he fell in love with, but with a maturity and compassion and serenity she may have lacked at times before.I REALLY WANT to be this person again. When he met me, I was top of my class in college, had a huge social life... he had to pursue me for 3 weeks before I even agreed to have a date! I don't know which magic combination of traits 'grabbed' him.... but I want to be that person again- because I felt REALLY GOOD about myself back then.

And I'd create mystery big time...if he brings up working to support yourself, you act as if you assumed that all along and you are looking forward to getting back out there and meeting NEW PEOPLE...
I have a job interview today! When I mentioned it to H, he was surprised because he didn't even know I had put in an application.

don't assume for a minute that he won't have regrets if he thinks, "Hey purg is all calm and appealing now and i went thru hell with her, just so she can NOW be all I wanted with some other guy?" But if you rant/rave, he'll feel relief to be gone and totally validated in his choice to leave.
I have a hard time seeing that he would ever think this, but hey, I'll take your word because you've been there before. He's actually said: "I'm glad you've made changes so the next guy won't have to go through what I did." (It was like a slap across my face!)

Finally, I love this analogy.
Say someone asked you "What if your life were a novel? Who is writing yours? How do you want the next chapter to go?"
What are your answers? So, be the author of your life. Don't let someone else write in your book with their actions or words. Don't give away your power.
A great analogy to keep in mind for the whole DB process!

For now, and "from this day forward", be your best self.
I think there's a good reason those words are in our marriage vows.
I wish that H would think about some of those other vows: for better or worse