W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2

[25yearsmlc]

Snowman - this is a long post. But it includes some other posts on Detachment that I hope will assist you in that endeavor.

Before response to the various posts I must say I received a disappointing news about my W's trip to London (my negative light I guess). That news is that she has decided to book the trip during my S's birthday.


how old is your son? Pretty young isnt' he? Okay -1) it's not in your control. I feel as if a lot of spouses would take a trip to London if it came up, I'm afraid, if the child is young enough that celebrating another time would not be noticed by him. (And for HIS sake I hope that's what happens.)

But 2) besides, what are you going to do about THAT? Like several other items on your grievance list, I think you have to let it go. She knows when his birthday is....she knows. But I would not project your anger at her onto him on his special day...
3)
put your love for him ahead of your anger at her, and you'll be alright.


I know I'm going on a trip without....----.

the rest of this paragraph is you keeping score w/your w and comparing the trips. Neither of you consulted the other before committing to the trips. I don't think anyone wins with scorecards so I urge couples to "lose the scorecard".

Besides, your w has her own scorecard and you didn't know about it - so my guess is she has a lot of points against you..

See, different views of the same event happen all the time even in calm happy couples. That's another reason you can't measure or keep score - b/c you are comparing apples to oranges. We don't view things the same.


---- she is going with girlfriends which will = lots of drinking, and she is now going during her only S's birthday. I'm passing judgement but I'm not the only one as everyone and I mean everyone says that same whether I should care what they say or not.


so how does passing judgement on her or listening to others do the same, help your situation?

How do you feel when it happens?
Why would people offer their negative critiques on your w, to YOU?

By way of reference, I spoke to my h's family ONE time in 2 years, about our m.



Mr. Bond, I didn't say you did or didn't understand the stitch. I said people pass judgement about who I am with knowing only bits or pieces of the story.

Snowman, Bond is a long time veteran and both he and I are very direct. We ask the poster here to keep the focus on who they can control, which is only the poster; ie you. the one person you can work on...you...

Others will chime in and validate your perceptions of your w's behavior, and on occasion I do too, but don't you hear enough of that in your life?

Sure sounds like there's an audience for your marital woes and-- I have to say that the peanut gallery comments only make it harder to

keep the road home, paved and smooth. Meaning, don't make it any harder for her to come back than it already would be. This is not about being right but about being happy.

(That used to be in my signature block b/c I SO believe it and I was stuck on being right for far too long.)



I guess I just don't like your approach. You don't pass judgement on someone you have never met and then say why don't you see it from my perspective.


that isn't what he said. You are misreading his words and your approach is curt to a man who just donated his time to help you. And fwiw, You did say you are judgemental of your w, right?

Your judgement calls drowned out you advice to me whether it is valid or not. I will work on understanding your perspective if you will understand my when it comes to your approach .

First, your response is what drowned out your ability to receive some valuable advice. Second, Bond does this for free, and has helped many people. Be careful who you brush off here, as it tends to be the very person who can help you the most....listen with extra care to those who seem to strike a chord in you b/c ....they struck a chord that may need examining..


25yearsmlc, I'm trying to not loose hope.

good^^^...it's too early to lose hope. But imo, you have to minimize the involvement of others. That just gets your ego wrapped in it, & upsets you more, which probably affects how you interact with her and not in a good way. Plus it involves and damages other relationships that can make an insurmountable mountain for her to climb if she wants back into the m, and makes so many things harder in the long run.


This is classic to only knowing bits of the story. I have mentioned earlier in my stitch that I went to IC for many visits. I got to a point were my C said to only call if I felt like I needed to because I had progressed so much. I probably should go back for a visit or 2 more---

Considering the situation you are still in , if your c thinks you cannot benefit from any more c, I'd say hire another one or call a DB coach. I know you'll take offense at that but before you drown it all out,

face this--- you are not happy and you obsess about your w b/c you are completely attached to what she is doing/planning, and you do a lot of negative mind reading about all her actions. I also had trouble not obsessing about "WHY" my h was doing what he was doing or when it would stop or what it all meant and my anger consumed me as did my constant thoughts about our situation.

I'm not a shrink but we both know that's not healthy. Do the detachment work asap.


As far as the anniversary talks or whatever it was, my W and I discussed talking about us so that's what I thought we were going to do. I know now that apparently that was not the case. You can beat me on the head or whatever else


you think you got "beat on the head"?? Okay well...

You said your w won't communicate, so does that mean she's stone cold silent?

Back when things were better, How would you and your w communicate when she felt a negative emotion?

When she was not pleased with something you had done or planned to do?
In other words-
How do you characterize her words, or handle them, when they are not positive to you? Do you feel attacked?


but I can' read her freaking mind which is part of the problem because she never communicates what she wants to me nor does she keep simple promises or commitments.

see above

We changed our schedule of sharing my S for her school which I agreed too but it made it so I would always have my son at the beginning of the week. Well we pay our daycare at the beginning of the week so I pointed that out so she could give me the check for daycare for her week or pay on Friday. Her we are Monday and she failed to do either so now I will be paying in hopes that she will pay me as she said she would.

do you have joint accounts? Is there some way you can calmly remove the money for that and let her know ahead of time,

or push the issue by simply staying on track via email or text, or some written form, so she remembers her actual promises?

Something tells me she sometimes agrees, or remains quiet and appears to consent, to keep the peace.

Or perhaps she wants to flee or she feels coerced. I'm just basing that on women's intuition, my experience in my professional life, and based on your words, but I know I could be wrong and often am.

But that's a guess. See if you can speak in softer tones with her and then re-cap what you think she has agreed to, without sounding condescending. Can't hurt.

Can you re-cap what HER 2 biggest complaints were about you, when she first dropped the bomb?

And how are you working on those two issues now?


I could go on but I will refrain as its all just me passing judgement on someone who continues act irresponsible financial or otherwise, sorry that's how I see it.

She just asked me for her Itunes login which I happily provided her and then she asked for mine to authorize my songs on her new computer and I even went out on the limb to do that even though she could possibly buy songs with my account. I offered to copy our whole music collection from our home computer so she would have it. She said that would be awesome.


not sure what all this^^^ is about. It's a nice gesture (copying her music for her) but you sound resentful of it, so I'm not seeing the love language being expressed here. Are you happy to do it or not? Do you notice anything about the tone you use about her, even when you are "happy to do it"?

(BTW please read "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman. FYI- I say this to all couples as I think it's among the best overall marriage books around, and most couples express & receive love in different "lanes."

They may not realize it for years or ever, and consequently they can both be loving their spouse, and yet have a spouse who does not feel loved....Can't hurt to read it).


My BIL inviting me over was not to get allies as this BIL was my W closest sibling. He is disappointed as everyone else is.

Re read the post I reacted to.

You said your bil was on the phone w/you and said something derogatory about your w, w/something to the effect of "now he gets what you have been going through"...you did not disavow him of that.

As i said elsewhere, the more other people comment on things, the harder it is to reconcile. I'd put a moratorium on comments and say "I apppreciate your intentions but for now I don't want to talk about it, thanks..."

How is it so many family members know the story AND feel free to comment on it? My guess is you called them to "ask their opinion"? While I do understand the temptation to do that, it never seems to help and usually makes things worse.

I would not invite their comments. At least not while you are in the midst of fighting FOR the marriage and struggling against the temptation to wallow in anger and fury.

In my 2 YEARS of dealing w/my h's MLC, I spoke to my h's family ONCE about our marriage.

I don't believe the more who know, the better---B/c again, I think that makes it harder to Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth...


Plus, there is a certain beauty and dignity in a man who refuses to criticize the mother of his children.

Furthermore, if there's a real chance she's mentally ill as you say your MIL claims, then remember your vows. (sickness and health)

And there's a reason the vows say "from this day forward"....you both would have to leave a lot of the past behind...while of course learning from it.

But a lot of LBSers say that about spouses who leave, b/c they want to blame it on something and not look at their marital dynamics..

it's not easy to dig deep and own our role in the demise of our m, EVER, let alone when we are in pain.

But I urge you to do so,

b/c the couples who DO reconcile for good around here, all seem to have made significant changes in themselves....usually starting with the LBSer and for a long time, maybe only the LBSer.



My 180's or traits to change:
-Spend max time with my son and make him top priority
-Be less controlling

what does this^^ mean and what will it look like?

-Be happy no matter the things around me
-Get more fit (Not doing so good but part of that is my lots of time with my S, no excuse I know.)
-Let go or detach once again (Probably never did)
-Enjoy and get involved in my hobbies


these ^^^GAL sound good. I would add that you have not detached- but I'll post something to clarify it for you if that helps. I could not wrap my brain around "detachment" for a long time

b/c I associated it with giving up or not caring. I was wrong.

I also hope your hobbies involve meeting other people who don't know the sitch b/c it really helps the self esteem and it reduces the obsessing.


I can admit I'm not the type that works well with someone smacking me on the head with judgement, criticism

who does? and who smacks you w/criticism? Are you talking about your real life or this board?

or anything else and then tell me to change.


read that statement^^^ and imagine someone else wrote that. What would your impression of them be?

At some level, do you see that for the marriage to be reconciled,

SHE has to believe it can change -- and that's going to mean

at least partly, YOU changing? Is that what's bothering you?

Why? B/C it implies fault? We all have them - and we ALL have to work on our them...that's why it takes a brave person to look within...

& not all traits that need changing are necessarily flaws, but still need to change, for the spouse...


I more in the lines of you show me how much you care before I care how much you know (this will probably be used against me).


I will assume you mean this in real life, and not here? B/C i don't know you. So what do you mean about showing we care?

I mean, we're here...taking our personal time to post to a perfect stranger in pain b/c we believe in the underlying philosophy of DBing and

building a community of support for marriage. AND b/c we have ALL been somewhere like where you are now. And it sukks.

Second, what's going to be "used against" you? What are you referring to here?


I can now hear someone saying that's what you need to do with my W and I agree but I have apparently failed to know how to break the barrier of being able to do this.

I don't know what this^^^ means...


My MIL is still convinced that her daughter is mentally ill

based on what? Leaving you? What else? Has your w ever seen a shrink? Ever acted this way OR mentally ill before?

Does your mil have an illness of her own she's projecting, or do you think she might be coming up with this as some sort of explanation?

Are she and your fil still married? What's their m like?



which I can't really say one way or another. It hard to argue against someone's own mother that has known her daughter her whole life until now.


good thing you don't have to argue or defend. Listen and evaluate.

For now I'm going to work on the letter unless people oppose this idea??

I can't comment about the letter b/c I don't know its content or purpose.
Must have missed that thread.

here are two posts on detachment that I found helpful.

This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
I) Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to those actions that will undermine our very best chances of accomplishing our goals. We can not control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love. Met with love we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’ It is the natural acceptance that I am alone responsible for how I act. I can not control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."

2) Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save OR fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.

* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.

* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
_________________________

hope this helps

good luck