Rock and an hard place

[Mach1]

LOL...

Ya'll are killin me down here....


PEI doesn't scare me any, ( unless she finds her way here and talks to me for three days straight , Grit says that is a boot camp for validation )

: O

[~ kd ~]

PEI doesn't scare me any, ( unless she finds her way here and talks to me for three days straight , Grit says that is a boot camp for validation )

Don't worry too much about PEI visiting you. The government made it very expensive for them types to leave the island... kinda like our own version of Alcatraz... But if she ever did, I'm sure you'd get a kick out of her accent...

[PEI]

Little do you know Kaffe ... takes a lot more than a toll bridge to keep me in one place lol. But if it came right down to it, I'd chose here over anywhere on earth ... we just made the brige expensive to keep y'all out ...

[Truegritter]

( unless she finds her way here and talks to me for three days straight , Grit says that is a boot camp for validation )

Hardest thing I ever did...validating a Prince Edward Islander into the wee hours of the morning...

My short answer?

You are a doormat if you think you are doormat.

What does it feel like when you concede to your fear.

When you feel anger or any other negative emotion you have to swallow because of your choice.

When you hang on every word or action of your spouse in hopes that they will change their mind and validate you...

Come back to you so you can feel better about yourself and not a failure.

You are a doormat.

Because you allow your self worth to be dictated by the actions or inactions of another.

IMO you must feel those doormat feelings in order to decide you don't want to be one.

You decide for YOU. You stand for YOU.

Then the only person who can call you a doormat and have it sting will be the one in the mirror.

F everyone else.

You will cease to be a doormat when you decide you are not one.

[ANS]

Hi Grit,

Yeah. I think you pretty much nailed it. You're a doormat if you feel like a doormat.

It's not so much the actions as the reason behind them.

Speaking from my own POV, I do a lot of things that other people could construe as being a doormat. I guess the reason I asked the question is that I don't believe I am a doormat.

I do what I do because I think it's the right thing to do. Not out of fear.

So for anyone who wants to tell me otherwise, I'll just refer them to you

the only person who can call you a doormat and have it sting will be the one in the mirror.

F everyone else.

[ANS]

Sorry folks, I’m gonna hijack this thread for a bit of journaling.

After all this time, I’m still struggling with Perceptions.

Way back when all of this started, I was working two jobs. It meant that I would working my day job, come home, and go out again to work my evening job. Weekends were mostly working my second job. Later, I changed jobs which meant I didn’t need the second job. However, on a fairly frequent basis, I’d be late getting home; sometimes not until the next day. Even later, I worked out of town a lot. Was gone during the week, and came home for only a day or two.

Well, to make a long story short, W got a life. And it did not include me. It did, however, include a MF. Since then, it has had all of the classical symptoms of an A. Is it an A? Or at least an EA? I truly don’t know. If it is, she’s hiding it in plain sight. It hurts me, but that’s not the point. Nothing I can do about it. W’s main priority is for the kids to think it’s OK. That’s my priority too

She has always maintained that MF is a friend like any other. I’ve never said otherwise; especially not to our kids. MF’s W basically made W and I persona non grata in her home, so I don’t serve any purpose in their (W & MF) circle anymore. I’m on the outside.

I have a friend who has maintained a friendship with MF. He also considers my W to be a friend. Sooo... fast-forward to this past weekend.

Our mutual friend popped by to tell us that he wants to throw a BD party for MF, and asked W to invite their (W & MF’s) circle of friends. It’d be kinda hard for her to say no, so it looks like we’re all going. I don’t know how W explains that she, MF, and this other couple can go out on a regular basis without me. I suspect they all figure that I don’t want to associate with them or something like that. But now we’ll all be there together.

Of course, there’s nothing I can do to show anyone how screwed up all of this is. Just wonder. Will it become evident to anyone?

Well, that’ about all I have to say about that. Time to go lie across the doorway. W will be home soon.

[~ kd ~]

There are a lot of people who enjoy catering to their spouse with things like breakfast in bed every sunday.

So yes, doormat really is a matter of perspective. And yes, if it's done out of fear, then it's probably doormat behaviour...

Sorry folks, I’m gonna hijack this thread for a bit of journaling.

I do not know if that is allowed. One of the moderators should be along soon enough to let you know if you can do that...

Of course, there’s nothing I can do to show anyone how screwed up all of this is. Just wonder. Will it become evident to anyone?

OK, I say that in NOT every situation, if it looks like cheese, it is cheese...

Still, observable human behaviour is pretty standard stuff that is internationally understood.

When we spend a lot of time with someone of the opposite sex (my acknowledgment and respect to our same sex members), there is no doubt a bond that is made that moves beyond "standard" friendships... If these people are single, then most around them will be whispering about how good they look together and offering suspicions that the two are dating...

That doesn't change just because one or both of those two are married... to other people... it just changes to tone from "aren't they cute, they should be dating" to "aren't they cute, they should have an affair"

As kids will pick up on stuff like that (and unfortunately this behaviour can be "normalized" to them), so do adults...

So having said all that, I am sure that if there isn't knowledge of something "more", there is most likely suspicions... or there eventually will be... and in some circles, it will even be open...

[ANS]

There are a lot of people who enjoy catering to their spouse with things like breakfast in bed every sunday.

Yep. I used to enjoy that very thing. I miss being allowed to do that.

... I am sure that if there isn't knowledge of something "more", there is most likely suspicions... or there eventually will be... and in some circles, it will even be open...

If you check any of the lists of “red flags” for an A, you could check off a tonne of them regarding W and her MF. Do I smell cheese? Yes, I do. I’m not stupid. However, when I look at some of the things that W had accused me of, and the reasons she accused me of them, I can’t say that there weren’t strong reasons to believe what she believes about me too. A particularly unhelpful C worked it out with her that I was “leading a secret life” so it must be true, right?

... in NOT every situation, if it looks like cheese, it is cheese

But I will say this. MF has replaced me as W’s best friend. She can say that he’s no different than a FF, but regards to him replacing me as her best friend, it doesn’t matter what his gender is. I believe H and W should be best friends. My W and I once were best friends, but now I'm only a source of income and caretaker for our autistic son, so she can do her thing.

But in practical (DB) terms, my feelings don’t matter. It’s hard not having anyone to talk to. Maybe that’s why I came back to the boards. I have to act As-If, not only to my W, but to my kids too, and in the long run, I’m concerned about this:

... kids will pick up on stuff like that (and unfortunately this behaviour can be "normalized" to them), so do adults...

My eldest three kids are adults. Will they follow W’s example 30 years from now?

Acting As-if can be a double edged sword. Society puts such an high premium on personal happiness, and M is supposed to be an happy state of give and take. W used to call me a taker, and she wasn’t happy about it. Now the tables are turned, and I have to act happy.

But like KD said,

I am sure that if there isn't knowledge of something "more", there is most likely suspicions... or there eventually will be

So, I’ll act As-if everything is hunky-dory, and maybe some day, the reality of W’s behavior will sneak into her consciousness. And maybe the irony of how her actions appear to others v.s. how my actions appeared to her and her C will also hit home.

[Truegritter]

I think in most of these cases where there is smoke there is fire.

And I disagree it does matter the gender of a close friend if your W is heterosexual.

ANS let me ask you back to my earlier diatribe on doormatism:

Does this relationship your W is having make you feel ok?

I think you are right to be concerned about what your children think. Is this the example you want to set for them?

Have you read the resources on boundaries?

I can post what I saved back when I needed them if necessary.

They are to protect you from bad choices your partner is making. And they have to have consequences for breaking them.

Give some thought to what you value in a relationship and how you would like to be treated. More importantly how you would treat someone if the roles were switched.

Would you carry on a relationship like this with a woman that excluded your W? Would YOU consider it acceptable?

Time for some thinking ANS.

[Oneeleven]

( unless she finds her way here and talks to me for three days straight , Grit says that is a boot camp for validation )

Hardest thing I ever did...validating a Prince Edward Islander into the wee hours of the morning...

My short answer?

You are a doormat if you think you are doormat.

What does it feel like when you concede to your fear.

When you feel anger or any other negative emotion you have to swallow because of your choice.

When you hang on every word or action of your spouse in hopes that they will change their mind and validate you...

Come back to you so you can feel better about yourself and not a failure.

You are a doormat.

Because you allow your self worth to be dictated by the actions or inactions of another.

IMO you must feel those doormat feelings in order to decide you don't want to be one.

You decide for YOU. You stand for YOU.

Then the only person who can call you a doormat and have it sting will be the one in the mirror.

F everyone else.

You will cease to be a doormat when you decide you are not one.

Wow. Some powerful stuff right there.