Too Little, Too late. 2

[purgatory]

Journal: kinda long, but I could really use some feedback.

I was really anxious about my tests today, and I was disappointed that H, BFF nor anyone else in my family had asked how I was doing or giving words of encouragement. I sent an email to H at his office simply saying: "I'm scared today and I wish I had a friend." (I know, it's pursuing and pathetic) H called me (before he got to the office) and asked how I was doing. I had worked myself up pretty good on the drive to the hospital, and I started to loose it when he asked. He apologized for not being more in tune with me, and that it never crossed his mind that I would be scared because to him- they are just tests. H came to the hospital to be with me. I kept telling myself that it means nothing has changed.

It turns out it was a good thing because I had an allergic reaction to one of the injections (apparently pretty rare) and it was sketchy for a while. It was nice to have him speak for me and be able to pay attention to the doctors. When I was better, we had lunch together.

Then he brought up R talk.... He wanted to talk about his feelings for BFF. (in that moment, I knew that him coming to the hospital wasn't for anything.) We talked about a lot, and I somehow managed to keep it all together- never cried or yelled. I made him aware of exactly how I felt about this and that I hope he really contemplates all the plus/minus of creating this new dynamic amongst our families. H was able to throw in a few reminders that: "our R has changed." "You need to learn to be my friend, but I don't think you're ready for that yet." "I won't look back on our M with regret, I will heal from the hurt and look back at the happy times." "Maybe I'm meaner than I need to be sometimes, but I don't want to ever give you the impression that there's a chance for us in the future."
[question.... does all of this ^^^^ sound like he's really sure of himself? I would like to think that it's more of his 'convincing himself' but, he was calm and looked me right in the eye.] I'm feeling more and more like there's no chance of a R. My H has always put lots of thought into his decisions, because he never wants to go back on them... so it makes me think that there is no amount of time and space and DB that can change his mind.

When H told me about his feelings 2 days ago, I told him that I felt like I needed to escape... so at lunch today, he gave me a conformation number for a hotel room on the beach that he got for me until sunday. I thanked him. Then I asked him if this was so he could have some time with BFF (stupid, I know.) Lots of questions and speculations later..... H has decided that 'if a good time presents itself, he will tell her this weekend.'

I am all over the place with how I feel about this.
On one hand, if she reciprocates the feelings, than I can cut ties with her (probably tell her off a little too). I have told H that if they pursue a R, I will not be around to watch, I will move to Florida until he leaves for Afg.
On the other hand, if she denies him- than I can be comforted that she is loyal to my friendship. I haven't figured out if I can continue a friendship with her knowing that she is the 'OW' for my H... I think I would always be comparing her to myself. BUT- knowing her, she would probably not want to ever be around my H again, knowing how he feels.

I really have no idea what she will say. I haven't spoken to her since Wednesday. Even though she hasn't confessed to feelings for H, I still feel betrayed. Her actions/words were done in a way that allowed H's feelings to grow for her. I feel like she should have been more aware of her interactions with H so that there was never any confusion.

======================
I am really struggling with the magnitude of the depression that has come over me. I am not strong enough to deal with all this: My M is over, H doesn't want anything to do with me, my health issues and impending diagnosis, H being deployed to AFG for over a year, getting comfortable with the fact that H will want to date soon, and NOW H has feelings for my BFF and she might reciprocate the feelings.

I am overwhelmed with sadness and loneliness. I cried the whole way home from the hospital (H and I were in separate cars, but I noticed that he stayed 2 car lengths behind me the entire way, even when I tried to take a different route; I would like to think it's because he knew I was upset and he was concerned.)

I am questioning why God thinks I can handle all of this???

[ces67]

Sorry Purg, what an awful day for you. I'll share what I've seen others on this board say....there's another side to all this. It doesn't take away the pain, but the presence of the pain doesn't mean you're weak. Hang on and take care of you.

"Maybe I'm meaner than I need to be sometimes, but I don't want to ever give you the impression that there's a chance for us in the future."

This very much like what my W has said to me several times. It hurts. Its been helpful to hear what people on this board have said about "don't believe everything you hear and only about 50% of what you see" (or something like that...still a noob to the board)

For me, its so easy to fall into focusing on my W's choices, behaviors and activities and then allowing all that to bring me down. Its overwhelming sometimes. I hope you can focus on you. His choices don't define you. Its very hard to do, but work on taking your mind off of him and focus it on what you need to do for yourself. Take the beach house if you need to and relax. If he's offering stuff, get a plane ticket and go somewhere of your choice to collect yourself.

I'll leave it to the pro's around here for the really good advice. Just know that somewhere in you is the strength to get through this.

The hard reality of life is there are battles to fight. Most of the hardest seem to take place in our hearts and heads. We have to fight to keep them whole and healthy and able to love. Its not easy. But I have to believe it worth it. I hope you can start picturing a day that you can forgive your H; Not to dismiss his wrongs but to free yourself of the weight of his choices. I can see glimpses of that freedom for myself and I do believe its worth fighting for. You've got a hard road ahead. I wish it were easier for you, but I do believe you can make it.

[BklynMom]

What your H is doing is so so wrong. Has he ever thought about going into politics? a la Newt or John Edwards.

I love that your H wants to convince you what a great guy he is, "dont worry I wont think of the bad times just the good ones"

Does he really think your kids will understand one day when they find out Daddy left mommy while she facing a health battle??

But whatever, we cant change him. The best we can do is get you all the support you need so that you can be the best purg & best mom possible.

If going to Florida is an option where you have support, why wait, go now. I only had 1 of the 3 elements that you have going on, which is my H leaving & saying there is no chance and it was unbearable. I am very grateful that my family showed up big time.

You can not do this alone. Your kids need you to be mentally healthy.

I will with hold comment on your BFF till you announce her decision.

[purgatory]

This is it. (it's gonna be long, but I really really really need HELP)

I spent my weekend at a beach hotel. I tried to enjoy my time and GAL. Went through the motions and managed to get a few things accomplished.

Then my H called to say he had spoken with my BFF (who will from now be referred to as OW). He said her response was: "wow. I'll have to think about that."

Can you imagine the rush of anger/pain/confusion that ran through my body?!?!

I kinda threw out all my DB skills.... I hung up on him so that I wouldn't cry on the phone. He called back later to 'check on me' and I lost it. I never yelled, but I said everything I should have. After a few choice words for her and him, I said: "don't bother inviting me to the wedding." and hung up.

I feel completely betrayed by my supposed BFF. I was finally able to get her on the phone (she ignored several texts). She was suprised at my level of anger, saying that she hasn't made a decision yet- so why was I so mad? I explained to her, that as my BFF who has claimed to never have feelings for him and to have helped fight for my marriage over the past 6 months- her FIRST AND ONLY RESPONSE should have been: "NO. This can never happen because {purg} is my friend and I could never do that to her!"

I further explained what my next steps would be (moving away) if she pursued this. I got a lot of: "why would you leave your kids or take them away from their dad?" "I don't know what I want." "I do think I have feelings for him, but I don't know what they mean." "You are both my friends and I don't want to loose either of you." "So, you're basically telling me that I have to decide if I want to loose both friends, or just one of you?"

REALLY? ARE YOU F_ING KIDDING ME????? I CAN"T BELIEVE SHE ASKED ME THIS ^^^^^^ QUESTION!!! In my best DB effort, I said: "Yes, that is a tough choice, but please forgive me if I don't have any sympathy for you."

After a few choice words about how I can't believe anything she's ever told me before, how I feel foolish for opening up to her and crying my eyes out over my H all this time, how she is the OW in my eyes and I can't ever be her friend again.... she cried a little and I hung up on her.

Flash to this morning, I called her (probably shouldn't have). I asked her if she's made her decision because I need to be able to make plans if I will be moving soon. She said: "I don't want a R with him now, but I can see that in the future because he's such a great guy." (cue my vomit, literally.)

She went on to say that she is a wreck over this choice and that I mean a lot to her. I called BS!! My response: "If you really gave a sh!t about our friendship and everything that I have ever told you about how I feel for H, than you wouldn't have hesitated. When you were put to the test about sticking up for me and fighting for my M, you saw an opportunity for yourself and you took it. How dare you."

I have accepted my actions that led to the break-down of my M. I was working on accepting that my H and I would only ever be friends (if we could ever get there again)... now I feel like another bomb has been dropped on me. I am angry with both of them, but betrayed by my friend.

Here's a question: I expressed to H and her that I would like to sit with both of them to talk this over. I'm not sure what my motivation is for this. I really don't want to repeat myself, and I want both of them to hear what I have to say to the other one. My fear is that they will feel attacked and therefore unite against me- pushing them closer together quicker. I feel like I deserve to have my friend look me in the eye and tell me her choices (she's very passive aggressive and will not confront anyone unless over the phone)

Should I talk with them?

I'm not proud of the fact that I have cried now to both H and her. I showed my weaknesses. I know that I need to be the bigger person and act 'as if', but how do you actually do this when I am filled with so much rage and hurt??

[labug]

First of all, my heart goes out to you.

Second, they deserve each other.

Here's a question: I expressed to H and her that I would like to sit with both of them to talk this over. I'm not sure what my motivation is for this. I really don't want to repeat myself, and I want both of them to hear what I have to say to the other one. My fear is that they will feel attacked and therefore unite against me- pushing them closer together quicker. I feel like I deserve to have my friend look me in the eye and tell me her choices (she's very passive aggressive and will not confront anyone unless over the phone)

Should I talk with them?

I'm sure after you have settled a bit you'll think differently about talking to them. To what end? Do you think it will change anything? She was never your best friend, she was not even a friend. She's an opportunist. Was your relationship one-sided before? Did she take more than she gave?

And your husband to call and tell you this, when you're supposed to be enjoying yourself???

I think you need to protect yourself from both of them. All they will do is continue to cause you pain at this point. How can you best take care of you and your kids right now? That should be priority one. Let them live out their soap opera without your input.

[BFloat]

you are hurting big time! the betrayal must be overwhelming.

bff? not so much. ironic how she says she doesn't want a relationship with him now but she could see it in the future because he's such a great guy. hmmm.. a great guy that is leaving his wife and kids and then starts up a relationship with the bff?? and for H to spring this on you while you're away on your weekend?

labug is right. how can you best take care of you and your kids right now? and removing yourself from their soap opera would be a good thing.

i'm thinking of you.

[25yearsmlc]

GRRRRRR!!!! ok, got that out.

My H is driving home today with the boys. They have a 13 hours drive, so I still have some time to mentally prepare myself.

that drive must have been an ordeal for your h. Even think about that and how it might affect his attitude? You may want to give him at least the same benefit of doubt that you give yourself for feeling "off" or for not recalling big negative episodes of the m.

Just put yourself in HIS shoes so you learn empathy. I would love to hear you tell me good things about your h and how you can see why he feels as he does...



I was doing good so far, I was planning a special dinner and looking forward to hugging my boys again.


sounds good. I hope you did that^^^ if you chose not to, then do you see how that just looks punitive on your end? Like you're teaching him a lesson, at the boy's expense. A great 180 after your conversation would be welcoming him home with open arms....as if all had gone great!
Just food for thought.

Then.... H called to let me know they were on the road. He told me that he had sat with his dad and revised our Sep papers and wanted to go over them with me. [H has not discussed/mentioned Sep papers in 2 weeks, and our last discussion was only about doing a deployment agreement] So needless to say, I was a little confused and hurt.

did you interpret his not saying anything for the 2 week Christmas vacation to mean he did not want the sep anymore?

what difference does it make that he spoke to his father? He of all people knows why his father would take a certain view of things and I trust that won't be the only voice he hears...plus, btw, you have NO control over this and for your heart sake and your m's sake, you have to let go of what you cannot control.


I expressed that I was confused because he had said I would get a copy of our most recent agreement so I could discuss things with my parents too.... he never sent that to me in the past 2 weeks. H got very defensive and stern voice: "I never said you couldn't talk to your dad. I never said I wasn't going to talk to mine, that was my plan and it didn't change. Not my fault if you feel like this."
(I was proud of my 180 reaction): "I've told you how I feel. I don't want to discuss this with you while you are driving and I don't want S5 to hear anything. I appreciate the heads-up and I will get my thoughts together so we can discuss it when you get home." [inside I'm crying and screaming!!] I was surprised by how calm he instantly got: "if I upset you, that wasn't my intention. This whole process is frustrating for me- maybe that's why I sounded angry." (of course ----
So this was on of the things I predicted before my trip.... now I'm waiting for the other prediction to come true- that he will announce that he's moving out until he leaves in July.

***please dont' make negative predictions. Hope for the best while preparing for the worst makes total sense, but making predictions just seems to tip the scales, now and then, against us...I've been there



This one I will fight against- not for me but for the kids.


man I wish you would not do this

Fact is, he will be gone for a year and miss daily hugs, kisses, bedtime, birthdays and holidays....


you really do not believe he is aware of this? He knows and he's not happy with it and you must MUST try to see his point of view in this.

To HIM he has been a victim of behavior of yours, which you yourself have described badly. You said you were "out of control" "mean" "flew off the handle" etc and though you say you had physical or physiological reasons for that, it still happened TO HIM...and now you are saying you are changing but how would HE know that? What does he see?

You didn't own it b/c you say you don't recall it or you had post partum depression and though most of us have had hormonal swings when pregnant or after, we are cognitively aware enough to know when we need help.

The problem with this "you can't blame ME approach" is that it also means

"so don't count on me changing and in fact now that I have a diagnosis, who knows? Maybe I'll get worse..." and if you become an invalid, who "may" have another fugue, do you see that it probably won't help matters or make a reconciliation that appealing?

do you see how that is not appealing to him b/c he sees himself as a long suffering h, who has been through a lot, and when you originally posted here you didn't disagree much with his assessment.

For sure the marriage was tumultuous and he's said that a "good time now and then, isn't enough" and in truth, don't you agree?


he owes it to my kids to be with them every moment he has available. I will not hesitate to tell him that he is being selfish if he moves out and that our kids' needs must come before his.



Wow, please don't do this^^^. You will fuel every negative image he has of your worst behavior. I would not criticize him for anything unless there was a gun to my head...

Not criticizing him is not = being a doormat b/c setting boundaries needs no criticizing, and at this point, neither does your h


I know that statement goes against DB, but it's for the benefit of the boys so I have no problem breaking a rule.


no, it's against DBing b/c it won't work, which hurts them and you, and you're showing him NO change

Have you read the div busting books yet? Or the Div Remedy one? What did you think of them?

The goal here is not to guilt him into staying -

but to show him through changes IN YOU that marriage to you could be different and better.

So ask yourself how each choice you make helps or hurts your goal.



Had to vent that out before it eats at me all day. Ok, now back to planning a special dinner for my boys (I could care less if H likes it, or even if he eats at all!!)

will read more of your thread when I can but HAD to respond to this post.

hang in there

[25yearsmlc]

Well, I guess I'm in a new category now.....

Had an unpleasant finding about H which led to conversation with him. Long story short: he said he's 'warming up' to the idea of dating. Later in the conversation, I flat out ask him if he has feelings for [my best friend], he says:"that's not a fair question" (as if I don't know what that implies.) After dodging the topic for a few, he admits: "I would be lying if I said that I haven't thought about it..." He says he's never talked with her about it nor has he sat with these feelings and really processed them.

I didn't yell. I didn't cry. I didn't pester with questions. (still not sure how I was able to do that)

GOOD!!!

This is my BFF who is like a sister. She is my kids godmother and I am to her 3 kids.


is she married?

How could she be so clueless as to no notice and then continue to let this happen???

let what happen? Your h says he has not told her how he feels...I am not clear on what you thought should have happened if she did not know?
He didn't want to date anyone until just now so how would SHE know he would now?

My H asked that I not blame her or go off on her and I responded with: "Please do not defend or protect her in any way from me, that adds insult to injury."


I feel so sick to my stomach. I feel betrayed, lied to and replaceable.


I know you are hurt and I recognize that sick to your stomach feelings. But you were not exactly betrayed or lied to in this post so am I missing something? And you FEAR being replaced, as we all do...it does not feel good but we all have that fear.

You learn to cope with it and see yourself as uniquely valuable and gifted and become that way so that you KNOW you are not replacable and you radiate that.


If she becomes the OW,I am no competition for her. She is totally 'his type' and she likes to do all the same activities as him (which I reminded him that these were all new hobbies he picked up in the last 2 years, not the same person I met 9 years ago.)


who says you are frozen into staying the same way you have always been? DBing is about changing and growing and evolving...show him you can. She'll never be the mother of his children. Right now he sees none of her flaws or faults...but she has them


I'm not sure what to do here. ---It was hard enough to hear him say that he's ready to start dating... but now to know that it might be *her*. I will never get him back if they start down that path... she is everything that I wasn't in our M.... and the 'old me' is what he's walking away from.

so what is the NEW different Purgatory doing now?

How are you showing him that you are becoming a different better woman?

Don't run away and prove they're right...be a woman only a fool would leave. GAL and do th 180s and your bucket list and be a vibrant fun woman who humbly recognizes her flaws in the m and is not too proud to work on changing into the woman you are inside, and the w he deserves.

I would not take the defeated approach although I would protect myself legally.

[purgatory]

25- Thanks so much for reading into my thread.

To answer/clarify a few of your *very awesome* points:

When I originally posted this, I was very angry. After I calmed down, I re-read what I wrote, and wasn't pleased with myself.
* I DID make a special dinner for the boys and acted 'as-if' things were fine that night.
* I didn't fight him on moving out. As of right today- he is moving out this weekend. And as much as I want to fight him on it- I have come to accept that those action would do more harm than good.

25 said:
The problem with this "you can't blame ME approach" is that it also means
"so don't count on me changing and in fact now that I have a diagnosis, who knows? Maybe I'll get worse..." and if you become an invalid, who "may" have another fugue, do you see that it probably won't help matters or make a reconciliation that appealing?
do you see how that is not appealing to him b/c he sees himself as a long suffering h, who has been through a lot, and when you originally posted here you didn't disagree much with his assessment.
For sure the marriage was tumultuous and he's said that a "good time now and then, isn't enough" and in truth, don't you agree?

Thank you for reminding me of this. Yes, I still do accept that my behavior was horrible for him to live/suffer through. Your perspective is insightful- the fact that now I have a 'title' to what I was experiencing, doesn't diminish the fact that he *lived* it... and those hurts are still with him.

Question: How do I overcome this 'image' he has of me and our M? Of course right now, he couldn't ever imagine that it would ever be different... he has acknowledged some of my changes and has said that he's glad I will be a better mom because of them- and that I won't make the same mistakes in my next R (that comment stings a little)

If you ever find the time, I would be interested to know what your thoughts on my more recent posts are (H has expressed feelings for my BFF (not anymore) and she has reciprocated... I'm really suffering with this one because I feel like I've lost him for good, no matter what.)

[25yearsmlc]

(Hard to post to you with colors b/c you used several and this is the 3rd time, but I'll try once more -just sayin'.....)

you are in a lot of pain but I don't see this as changing the sitch that much. When you are calmer, even you realize she has flaws and she will bore him in time. Don't forget that.

Wait til he's gone and tries to have a conversation with her IF IT GOES THAT WAY but don't obsess.


She is not you and she has flaws so in the long run you don't have much to worry about with THEM? At least not imo...right now she's familiar and that's friendly but she's also "new" and yet friendly...and weak...

This is it. (it's gonna be long, but I really really really need HELP)


I kinda threw out all my DB skills.... I hung up on him so that I wouldn't cry on the phone. He called back later to 'check on me' and I lost it. I never yelled, but I said everything I should have. After a few choice words for her and him, I said: "don't bother inviting me to the wedding." and hung up.


this is you projecting your worst fears out into the universe and letting her hear them. The hardest thing I had to learn was to keep my mouth shut and NOT say anything....period.


I further explained what my next steps would be (moving away) if she pursued this. I got a lot of: ]"why would you leave your kids or take them away from their dad?" "I don't know what I want." "I do think I have feelings for him, but I don't know what they mean."

here^^^ you went into angry punitive threat mode and played into every negative image your h has of you...you must learn to contain your anger b/c it is a big reason you are here. NO offense b/c I don't want to kick you when you are down

but you have to learn to stay calmer and NOT say every angry thing or negative fear you have.

When you make fear based choices you will regret them.



[b]REALLY? ARE YOU F_ING KIDDING ME????? I CAN"T BELIEVE SHE ASKED ME THIS ^^^^^^ QUESTION!!! In my best DB effort, I said: "Yes, that is a tough choice, but please forgive me if I don't have any sympathy for you."


Flash to this morning, I called her (probably shouldn't have). I asked her if she's made her decision because I need to be able to make plans if I will be moving soon.


here ^^^you are giving her all YOUR power. Don't do that. Your life belongs to you. Live it the way you want to live it.



I have accepted my actions that led to the break-down of my M.


okay so how will that^^ realization affect how you choose to act NOW?

I was working on accepting that my H and I would only ever be friends (if we could ever get there again)... now I feel like another bomb has been dropped on me. I am angry with both of them, but betrayed by my friend.

I get that it hurts a lot and she's wishy washy and he's an easy target plus she thinks you mistreated him and in truth that happens more often than most of us realize. My bff here on the street treats her h terribly (so thank God he's not attractve) but yes I've told her this.

She doesn't want to hear me and thinks I'm "just plain wrong" and she does a lot of "showing him the consequences of his actions" -to punish-

which no offense purgatory, but that's how you sound when you threaten to take the boys away. You are putting your anger ahead of all else.

I would not run away but I do think time apart will enable you to Calm down and work on anger management. Can you take anti-anxiety meds so you don't say things you'll later regret or hyperventilate

or fester and obsess? I know where you are now and it's a dark place. But you can get yourself out of it. And only YOU can...



Here's a question: I expressed to H and her that I would like to sit with both of them to talk this over. I'm not sure what my motivation is for this. I really don't want to repeat myself, and I want both of them to hear what I have to say to the other one. My fear is that they will feel attacked and therefore unite against me- pushing them closer together quicker. I feel like I deserve to have my friend look me in the eye and tell me her choices (she's very passive aggressive and will not confront anyone unless over the phone)

Should I talk with them?

NO you will absolutely push them together and unite them and there is no way you are presently able to calmly address them

there is little to zero value in what they would say to you now that you'd believe

and there is such a huge downside to this that I cannot imagine anyone suggesting it. And Why confront them together?

To snoop and catch them in a lie? How would that help anything? What is the goal?

Do NOT do this....


I'm not proud of the fact that I have cried now to both H and her. I showed my weaknesses. I know that I need to be the bigger person and act 'as if', but how do you actually do this when I am filled with so much rage and hurt??

your anger needs to be managed more.

Saying "how can I do this when I am filled with rage and hurt"

You have to realize that holding onto your anger does nothing to THEM.

It's like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes.

If I could suggest anything it would be that you focus on GAL and imagining a life without your h but happy.


and see what that would look like. Detail it and envision it and then

begin to create it NOW...

and don't assume the worst of your diagnosis. My sister in law has a "terminal disease" she was diagnosed with in '98 and my bil had a brain tumor diagnosed the same year and lived 10 years with it and worked most of that time at his job.

your symptoms sound like SVT. Is that it? Without info I can't give you a pep talk but I would not stress that your condition made you unable to control yourself b/c you are only promising your h a worsening of that, with the added "bonus" of maybe being an invalid.

No offense, but even the best among us - IF we feel we have been mistreated, over a long period of time, would not want to stick around for that.

You have some factors in your favor if you can remain calmer and show some changes in you.

This will test your changes sorely but then again, why not show him your best NOW?