Is There Hope?

[Oneeleven]

fwiw

I rarely say stuff like that^^^^ but this is crazy. No kids, no wedding license and NO RING and no time invested...AND

no kindness!!! barely contact...

He said he wants you out...what are you waiting for, eviction papers? He'll get to that when he returns and all his things are in one piece.

One11- like I said, IF there is a chance to turn this around it'll be by you getting back the spine you had before assuming you did have one. But seriously, did you? I don't mean to be mean...


but was the dating relationship really so deep? Did he know he was getting deployed and needed a warm cushion at home??

Sorry but I have served myself, am married to an officer and have 5 brothers, 4 of whom have served...I have seen many if not MOST MEN keep their vows.

But there are some who make up for the rest

and he made NO VOWS to you that he feels obligated to keep now.

YOU are both free to date. I'd at least act as if I was but not to tell HIM...

what are you doing TO GAL??

-----------------

We had a short discussion late on Sunday. I am staying in the house until May 1st. It is what is best FOR ME. I don't drive, so I can't even get the dog to a kennel, besides, I love that dog and don't want to do that to her.

I am moving into the lower level bedroom.

I am going on 'our' wedding trip (its non refundable/transferable/exchangable and it's costing me 5 Grands, so I am going for sure! lol) then I will move out when I am back from the trip.

You're right about not being engaged anymore, and you're right about dating.

FWIW: He is a lifer, and always will be. He has a very good "day job" here back home. And he will never date military again. He prefers civilians. I am the best of both worlds as I work for the military in a civilian capacity loL!

What am I doing to GAL? Nothing crazy. I am getting older. My idea of a good time is renting a movie and cooking a pot roast.
I'm not being anything different because I never didn't have my own life and stuff to do. I take care of a house, animals, have a great job, work out every day, do home renos on the weekends, cook like a master-chef! lol! That's good enough for me.

And the 'did I ever have a spine'? question.. valid! I do, I am one of the most fiesty and strong women I know. I don't get 'taken' very easily and I've been independant all my adult life. This whole thing has knocked me on my ass!! My spine disappeared and I didn't recognize myself for a while. I was severely depressed, couldn't get out of bed, contemplated suicide and I think... had a nervous breakdown.

I think this one hit me so hard because this is the FIRST man I ever wanted to marry,I was 'Miss Independant' and never really saw myself marrying anyone before. And the first man I ever want to have a child with. Seriously! That is what made me believe that the relationship was different than the rest I've had (and I've had some pretty serious ones, one lasted 6 years).

But once I got word that I have the time I need to move on financially... as soon as I got that news... something inside me clicked! Oh... THERES my backbone!!!!

[Oneeleven]

fwiw

I rarely say stuff like that^^^^ but this is crazy. No kids, no wedding license and NO RING and no time invested...AND

In relation to most on this board, no time, but our time together was intense

no kindness!!! barely contact...

The coldness he has shown is unbelievable in contrast to the kindness he showed before. This is why I am so incredulous I guess. But yes, it's funny, you'd think the cruelness he displays would make me run for the hills, but I just have a hard time digesting it's even him giving that off! But I am no longer in denial

He said he wants you out...what are you waiting for, eviction papers? He'll get to that when he returns and all his things are in one piece.

This was a fear of mine, and I think... part of the reason I was really freaking out. Sunday I was going a bit mad because I realised that I only had less than two months left to try and get all my Sh*t together and move. I would have had to go into debt to do this AND take care of the wedding payments too. Right now, I am pretty much debt free, I really want to keep it this way

One11- like I said, IF there is a chance to turn this around it'll be by you getting back the spine you had before assuming you did have one. But seriously, did you? I don't mean to be mean...
I replied to this before. I found my backbone again. Thanks for the 2X4


but was the dating relationship really so deep? Did he know he was getting deployed and needed a warm cushion at home??

We knew he would eventually as he is one of only a few trained for his specialty, and that hold his rank. But not when we got together, moved in, talked of marriage and the future no. He was planning on proposing on our camping trip in June. When he got the orders, he gave me the ring early


and he made NO VOWS to you that he feels obligated to keep now.
He made a lot of vows to me. The letters and videos he made since deploying, and plans we made for our future after being together for a while, but I guess everyone does that

YOU are both free to date. I'd at least act as if I was but not to tell HIM...

CAN I ASK: What do you mean "act as if, but not tell him" act as if I am dating?

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks a lot for looking over my situation.

To clarify a couple of things.
- We are Canadian and in the CF, common-law has the same rights as a married couple. Everything is exactly the same. With concrete proof (eye witness, photos, video) he would be charged and sent home early from his tour. His career would be badly damaged.


I still doubt that b/c of having served in combat and the relative short duration of your relationship. But hey, I'm not going to fall on my sword for it. Since you won't act on it, it's a non issue I guess. And no I am not suggesting you act on it.

- I do not have any of this kind of proof. NOR would I do this to him DESPITE what a jerk he is being
- The bills and housing stress - we have had A PLENTY! lol!! And I am taking care of it all. But one great thing is I am good with money and I have got him out of the hole in every bill and debt he has. Something nice to come home to I am sure.

If you are this good with money then why do you need his home to live in? I mean no offense but what's with needing his house if you were on your own just last year?

Also, are you paying his bills? You mean with his money, right? You are not lending him money, correct? If you are, then you get it back with that POA the day before he comes home so it's "all squared away and he doesn't even have to worry about it".

And please if we've learned one thing here in DB land, is to have NO expectations of gratitude from him at all....maybe never...but surely not a lot if he's not even talking to you now.So don't think he'll say "that was nice to come home to." Sorry one, but that would shock me.

I will take your opinion at face value that he only proposed to me to keep me to take care of his house, but I don't think that's entirely true.


I did not say it was the only reason.

I suggested it as a possibility, and moreover, based on the track record, the short time you were dating, then you threatened to break it off or had a dramatic fight about a possible OW,

THEN He proposed and got deployed. Sure the timing of the engagement is convenient only for him...it sukks for you b/c you could not date while he was gone but clearly he had no such obligation....

but I don't doubt he had feelings for you.

He also had a prior wife AND presumably prior feelings for her. What did you learn about him from her in a 3 hour talk?...


He wouldn't have signed his entire life over to me if this had been the case. I have EVERYTHING. His house, life insurance, POA, the works.

But I def agree that because we don't have any legal ties besides whats listed above, and because this relationship is in its first two years,(FIRST YEAR, right? Didn't you only date 5 months and then move in and then fight and then get engaged and deployed and...well it's not biggie, but I got confused about the length of this. I thought your time together was a matter of months but no it does not make a difference in your analysis. You are being brutally honest but better HERE on this board than when he returns and again, have LOW or zero expecations about a loving reunion. )

that it is probably a good idea to let it go. I am not the type to take advantage of my position with the POA and stuff (which lots of women have/do - I've heard horror stories of guys coming back from tour to an empty house and bank account )

shocking their military has not remedied this. Most of my relatives are French Canadians. I'll have to remind them.

OTOH there were stories of men who refused to give ANY POA to their wives b/c of control issues or paranoia and when they were in Vietnam, they left too little money or zero allotments to their families for the food and rent,and there were kids living on welfare in squalor.

NOW, when you get deployed those things are handled by, among other peeps, legal officers so no one gets screwed at either end. It's not fool proof of course.


I totally agree with you that I need to back off. This may sound like a small feat, but yesterday was day one! That I need to basically act as if it's over. And you know what? I DON'T want to be in the relationship the way it is now. So I guess I will lean on this to help me detach.


it's not a small feat but it's mandatory. So you have day 1, done. GOOD!!

BTW it was crappy of him to blow off your birthday.

What really concerned me was how you excused it and said your family wasn't big on b-days...so what?

YOU had been big on HIS birthday only a short time earlier...that's the standard to go by and he blew it and when you told him (ahhh backslide of neediness and attempted guilt inducing nearly always backfires) and he still blew it off....ouch.

One, This man is bad news for you on all counts, sorry.

I don't care how great he was in bed or how poetic he can wax, he's not been kind to you since a month after he got there AND

before that he messed around...yeah he did.

And as for "proof" of an affair taking place 3000 miiles away, seriously...what could you possibly get that would be "proof"??

if not the contacts and messages you have seen repeatedly, are you sayng only a film crew can prove it? You can't put a camera in his quarters and beam back the info so I'm not clear on how you expected proof. Oh him telling you and admitting it?

Did he ever voluntarily do that before? Didn't think so....And the ONE reason he'd be a fool to admit an affair now, if no other reason is exactly what you said

you have access to all his property and his home.

A lot of women don't handle adultery well and might go nuts and he things you are too snoopy so maybe he fears your reaction to the truth....Who knows?

Does it matter now? Think of Thailand and how he treated you AND then blamed you? He sounds like a borderline personality disorder narcissist...or just a cruel selfish guy. I'm no shrink.

(though you say on one hand you are not married or engaged but you assumed all the responsibilities of that commitment...you just did not get the benefits...do you get free health care? Anything other than rent?

Backing off BIG TIME and in an upbeat warm way as if you are the lucky one (and you are)

it's the only realistic way I can see, based on his "feedback" to you, his Classic OW behavior of treating YOU badly so you'll "leave him" and free him to date openly

and his irritation at you for reminding him that he's taking advantage of you AND your neediness was a turn off. And OW is....there...physically. You are not.

He's the type of guy who has to have what he wants when he wants it...

Do you believe that makes great dad material?

The bar room scene suggests little chance of him being a monogamous type --but for the right woman who makes him work for it, MAYBE..maybe not..


As much as I love him. As much as I hope we can be in each others' lives, things need to change drastically for both of us in order for it to survive.

Thank you very much again for taking the time to give me some insight. And for backing up that I have a right to 'back off'. I kind of felt... guilty.. backing off before because he is in a crappy sitch over there. But he doesn't deserve (or want) different right now.

Today is another day~

111

God help me for saying this but If he has skype and private quarters he's not front line. I don't say that to minimize but please don't let his present sitch excuse his behavior. If anything most men are KINDER and MORE loving when they feel their time is short or they want to shore up a r they hope to rekindle. For a guy coming home in a month, he's NOT acting like he wants back IN....when my h and I are apart we are MORE romantic and expressive. I can't explain why but many friends report the same.....

Yes I understand marital stress - After over a decade of post grad schooling for law and medicine, We were both active duty, in a war, had 2 small kids at the time, were apart long periods and as far as I know neither of us cheated.

Been m over 30 years now, been through some crisis internally and externally and 3 deaths in 14 months, a 4th death 6 months earlier (over there) and have a lot invested in our marriage, and raised 3 kids.

I say Please, cut your losses.

I have never said that to any married or cohabitating woman with kids or even to someone in a LONG term r

but to me this isn't even a year together, is it?

I guess what i am trying to say, however feebly I am wording it,

is you are LUCKY to know this all now. It's a blessing in disguise. I know it's a dang well disguised blessing b/c it feels like heartbreak but it is still so much better to deal with this now, cleanly, than later.


Is there some part of you that thinks you are so "Old" that you have to settle for this if you really want a child that badly? Please don't be offended by that question, I am just a bit confused by what you are tolerating from this non relationship and what you are getting out of it.

It was "so good" for so short...

Do you want THIS man's child? What do you love about him? Not how he acted with you good or bad but what are his qualities you admired or loved?

And now?

As for my h's deployment, I am not thrilled for obvious reasons. Been there, done that. Thought the war was over too btw....and he's taking a HUGE PAY CUT to go so we're going to maybe lose our home.

IOW we were active duty but now he's in the reserves. H Does Army stuff one weekend a month but works in private practice the rest of the time.

Now when he's deployed and they do NOT match his civilian pay all I can do legally is keep the home from being foreclosed....WHILE HE'S GONE , BUT the month he returns we lose it.

Nice touch huh?

but you know how I cope with that and having 2 kids at home and working? And not letting free floating angst about him being bombed hit me in the face every hour?

By realizing that in the grand scheme of things, if the only thing we lose by my h going off to a war zone is a house,

then we'll start over and build again, and we'll be luckier than thousands of soldiers who did NOT come home
OR
who came home missing limbs.

My h treats those soliders now in the wounded warriors project.

I believe in supporting the military and detest spouses who cheat or fool around with money while their partners are in war zones or just overseas serving their nations for that matter.

b/c it's really a dastardly thing to do. It's like cheating on a pregnant woman. You just don't do it. It is what a "CAD" would do...

But he's been a cad to you and you are NOT doing anything wrong by simply arranging to move out and be on your own AS HE HAS REQUESTED...

I didn't see a retraction from him. How can you feel guilty about anything here? I'm a little worried that you need to talk to a t if you think you've done anything wrong or are you leaving something out?

Was there a retraction? Did he ask you to stay in the home?

Even so, why depend on him for anything? it's such a set up for being a doormat b/c you'll feel so trapped.

And that's exactly the oppposite of what you need to be if you want to attract him.

I'd move out and GAL big time, and MAYBE if you can, take the dog or some item that means he'll have to contact you. The dog is best but can't be a hassle to rent a place with.

Then he'll see you looKing GOOD and being upbeat and NOT taking him to the cleaners but being independent and attractive, and expecting NOTHING FROM HIM AT ALL...

and being mysterious and busy acting as if you "get" his choice and you accept it with resignation and regret FOR HIS SAKE,

b/c YOU know YOU will be fine without him as you were before AND you are an improved version of yourself now, so great things are happening in your life now and right around the corner too...

You know this b/c YOU have become a woman only a fool would leave

and if you become your best self and he still chooses OW or to move on

then he is a fool and it's a BLESSING to learn this now.

a bientot!

[Forrest Gump]

"CAN I ASK: What do you mean "act as if, but not tell him" act as if I am dating?"

So much of this (DB'ing) is just a kinda mind game. 99% of the time you could effect a change in your R and never say a word. As an example. Just walk down the road and wave at random people.. most of them are going to wave back. Or just standing somewhere in a group of people look down and point at the ground.. chances are most of the group will look down with you. People respond to actions and what they see. Imagine if you were in that same group and just said "Look down!" what are those people going to be looking at? I got money they won't be looking down.. but right at you trying to figure out why you just said that. I understand that you can't "see" him. But if you talk to him on the phone.. smile.. even if you are mad. If he texts/emails you crap.. don't respond. Simple things like that help.

[Oneeleven]

Wow. Thank you for the response, I think You are repeating what any member of my family or the one friend I've told the entirety of this sitch to. I will answer some questions below

Thanks a lot for looking over my situation.

- I do not have any of this kind of proof. NOR would I do this to him DESPITE what a jerk he is being
- The bills and housing stress - we have had A PLENTY! lol!! And I am taking care of it all. But one great thing is I am good with money and I have got him out of the hole in every bill and debt he has. Something nice to come home to I am sure.

If you are this good with money then why do you need his home to live in? I mean no offense but what's with needing his house if you were on your own just last year?

[color:#CC33CC] I don't need his house persay, but obviously I love my home and hate to have to leave. And about having to stay until May 1st. It's because I don't want to go into debt by moving earlier. Our agreement was I pay the wedding and he pay all the mortgage. If I have to pay first and last months rent, pay a mover, set up all new utilies, etc, now I will go into debt. Staying at his house a few more months, rectifies this

Also, are you paying his bills? You mean with his money, right? You are not lending him money, correct? If you are, then you get it back with that POA the day before he comes home so it's "all squared away and he doesn't even have to worry about it".
Hell no! In Canada your pay almost doubles while you're in theatre. I have access to all his money and have been paying down his debts and moving around his money to reestablish his finances. he is not very good with that sort of stuff. He can build a finished basement but don't ask him to balance a cheque book

And please if we've learned one thing here in DB land, is to have NO expectations of gratitude from him at all....maybe never...but surely not a lot if he's not even talking to you now.So don't think he'll say "that was nice to come home to." Sorry one, but that would shock me.[/color]

I have zero expectations, and truth be told a "thank you so much" means nothing to me at this point. But he *will* most likely thank me profusely. He even has since the Dec 27th blow up. (when I made his car shelter payment go on my visa) But his thank yous fall on deaf ears right now (so obviously... I'm not doing it for a thank you, I'm doing it because I want to complete my end of the 'bargin' and so I can feel good about MYSELF)

I will take your opinion at face value that he only proposed to me to keep me to take care of his house, but I don't think that's entirely true.


I did not say it was the only reason.

I suggested it as a possibility, and moreover, based on the track record, the short time you were dating, then you threatened to break it off or had a dramatic fight about a possible OW,

THEN He proposed and got deployed. Sure the timing of the engagement is convenient only for him...it sukks for you b/c you could not date while he was gone but clearly he had no such obligation....

but I don't doubt he had feelings for you.

He also had a prior wife AND presumably prior feelings for her. What did you learn about him from her in a 3 hour talk?...

The time between possible OW and him deploying wasn't quite as short as it seems here, but it was yes. I won't agree that he proposed to keep me around to take care of his stuff, when he had it in his mind to dump me the moment he got home, I will agree that he proposed to keep me happy. I really wanted to be engaged and we talked about marriage and babies pretty much every day. I got wedding fever. Thats more why he did it. And he knew I really wanted to be at least engaged before I got pregnant. I am not delusional on that sitch


He wouldn't have signed his entire life over to me if this had been the case. I have EVERYTHING. His house, life insurance, POA, the works.

But I def agree that because we don't have any legal ties besides whats listed above, and because this relationship is in its first two years,(FIRST YEAR, right? Didn't you only date 5 months and then move in and then fight and then get engaged and deployed and...well it's not biggie, but I got confused about the length of this. I thought your time together was a matter of months but no it does not make a difference in your analysis. You are being brutally honest but better HERE on this board than when he returns and again, have LOW or zero expecations about a loving reunion. )

We have been together since August

that it is probably a good idea to let it go. I am not the type to take advantage of my position with the POA and stuff (which lots of women have/do - I've heard horror stories of guys coming back from tour to an empty house and bank account )

shocking their military has not remedied this. Most of my relatives are French Canadians. I'll have to remind them.

[color:#FF99FF] It's digusting. So are the women who cheat with other guys. It happens a lot when the women are left on the bases. My EX and I do not live on base.

OTOH there were stories of men who refused to give ANY POA to their wives b/c of control issues or paranoia and when they were in Vietnam, they left too little money or zero allotments to their families for the food and rent,and there were kids living on welfare in squalor.

Certain ranks are like that here. It's pretty gross. But going overseas gives the younger guys/lower ranks to get a leg up for 6-9 months

NOW, when you get deployed those things are handled by, among other peeps, legal officers so no one gets screwed at either end. It's not fool proof of course.
[/color]

I totally agree with you that I need to back off. This may sound like a small feat, but yesterday was day one! That I need to basically act as if it's over. And you know what? I DON'T want to be in the relationship the way it is now. So I guess I will lean on this to help me detach.


it's not a small feat but it's mandatory. So you have day 1, done. GOOD!!

BTW it was crappy of him to blow off your birthday.

[color:#CC66CC] I F-ing agree. Now that the sadness of the whole thing has worn off, I am pretty disgusted by him for it and that is good! I am taking that feeling and holding on!

What really concerned me was how you excused it and said your family wasn't big on b-days...so what?

I didnt excuse it, or I sure didn't mean to. It was really heartbreaking.


YOU had been big on HIS birthday only a short time earlier...that's the standard to go by and he blew it and when you told him (ahhh backslide of neediness and attempted guilt inducing nearly always backfires) and he still blew it off....ouch.

I did SO much for his BD to make him feel special. I have made him killer care packages since he's been there. (one was a complete Christmas set up for his room) And I wish you could see the video he made of himself opening his BD gift. It is just ..headshaking

One, This man is bad news for you on all counts, sorry.
I don't want to believe that but unless things change drastically, I fear it's the truth

I don't care how great he was in bed or how poetic he can wax, he's not been kind to you since a month after he got there AND

before that he messed around...yeah he did.
Not physically, but emotionally.

Thats what I really have to remember to help detach. He HAS NOT BEEN NICE TO ME (aside from the odd occassion) SINCE SEPTEMBER!!!

And as for "proof" of an affair taking place 3000 miiles away, seriously...what could you possibly get that would be "proof"??

I have proof of EA, but not PA, and I don't need proof for myself. But I wondered if technically I had to HAVE proof to be justified in feeling like it was ... a deal breaker.

if not the contacts and messages you have seen repeatedly, are you sayng only a film crew can prove it? You can't put a camera in his quarters and beam back the info so I'm not clear on how you expected proof. Oh him telling you and admitting it?

Did he ever voluntarily do that before? Didn't think so....And the ONE reason he'd be a fool to admit an affair now, if no other reason is exactly what you said

He did admit to the trust violation from way back. On his own as well. It took him a few days, but he did. And that is when he presented me with some free counseling that the military would provide us

you have access to all his property and his home.

A lot of women don't handle adultery well and might go nuts and he things you are too snoopy so maybe he fears your reaction to the truth....Who knows?


Does it matter now? Think of Thailand and how he treated you AND then blamed you? He sounds like a borderline personality disorder narcissist...or just a cruel selfish guy. I'm no shrink.

Nor am I. Hence why I am not going to put a label on this. Even perhaps say .... MLC. His wife told me he started going off the rails from who he used to be since they posted to this city. We compared notes of the breakdown he's been suffering since she knew him, from the beginning of my R with him, till now. He is deteriorating. We both see clearly he needs to talk to someone, but it doesn't matter what we say. It's him who needs to realise it for it to happen

(though you say on one hand you are not married or engaged but you assumed all the responsibilities of that commitment...you just did not get the benefits...do you get free health care? Anything other than rent?

I have all my own benefits. And I was paying half of everything until we made the agreement regarding me paying off the wedding instead.

Backing off BIG TIME and in an upbeat warm way as if you are the lucky one (and you are)

it's the only realistic way I can see, based on his "feedback" to you, his Classic OW behavior of treating YOU badly so you'll "leave him" and free him to date openly

and his irritation at you for reminding him that he's taking advantage of you AND your neediness was a turn off. And OW is....there...physically. You are not.

He's the type of guy who has to have what he wants when he wants it...

Do you believe that makes great dad material?

He needs to get emotional help before he's ready to be a dad. You can't do 7 tours in his position and NOT need to talk some stuff out after

The bar room scene suggests little chance of him being a monogamous type --but for the right woman who makes him work for it, MAYBE..maybe not..[/color]

See, here I agree. And THAT is the woman who I was after. When I found out. I was calm, cool and collected. There were no threats of leaving, and he STILL freaked out right away. That is really who the woman I am. You just can't get all that in my internet chat I guess.


As much as I love him. As much as I hope we can be in each others' lives, things need to change drastically for both of us in order for it to survive.

Thank you very much again for taking the time to give me some insight. And for backing up that I have a right to 'back off'. I kind of felt... guilty.. backing off before because he is in a crappy sitch over there. But he doesn't deserve (or want) different right now.

Today is another day~

111

God help me for saying this but If he has skype and private quarters he's not front line. I don't say that to minimize but please don't let his present sitch excuse his behavior. If anything most men are KINDER and MORE loving when they feel their time is short or they want to shore up a r they hope to rekindle. For a guy coming home in a month, he's NOT acting like he wants back IN....when my h and I are apart we are MORE romantic and expressive. I can't explain why but many friends report the same.....

As I am sure that you can understand - I can't devulge what he does but he is most certainly front lines. His position is a unique one. He is a guy with a beard, if that holds any meaning for you yanks (it's code here in Canada lol) And YES I KNOW! He was so kind and so gentle and so appreciative. Then things changed. He might have fallen out of love. Maybe he just met someone. Whatever the reason, but I did see these qualities you speak of. I remember shortly after the Thailand trip, he wrote me the strangest letter. I guess they had rocket attacks on his 'area' and he was affected. He wrote me about feeling alone in the universe and wanting to be a better man. He asked me for patience and said he was trying, he knew he was difficult, but he was trying. That he hoped I wouldn't give up faith on him. That he appreciated me and hoped we could start anew when he returned from A-Stan.... It really threw me for a loop.

Yes I understand marital stress - After over a decade of post grad schooling for law and medicine, We were both active duty, in a war, had 2 small kids at the time, were apart long periods and as far as I know neither of us cheated.

Been m over 30 years now, been through some crisis internally and externally and 3 deaths in 14 months, a 4th death 6 months earlier (over there) and have a lot invested in our marriage, and raised 3 kids.

I'm so sorry for your losses that sounds pretty overwhelming. You sound like a fantastic, strong and admirable person

I say Please, cut your losses.

I have never said that to any married or cohabitating woman with kids or even to someone in a LONG term r

but to me this isn't even a year together, is it?


[color:#CC66CC] A year and a half, but he's been deployed for part of that. But I don't consider the relationship any less because he's not physically here.
I guess what i am trying to say, however feebly I am wording it,

is you are LUCKY to know this all now. It's a blessing in disguise. I know it's a dang well disguised blessing b/c it feels like heartbreak but it is still so much better to deal with this now, cleanly, than later.
[/color]

Is there some part of you that thinks you are so "Old" that you have to settle for this if you really want a child that badly? Please don't be offended by that question, I am just a bit confused by what you are tolerating from this non relationship and what you are getting out of it.

Gosh no! Quite the opposite. I have always been pretty anti-kid. I never wanted one and the older I got, the more that was clear. Then when I met P, quite shortly into our R, it was like... Ding ding ding... I want to make babies with this man! Very strange. No one could believe it. And my making babies urge goes away if it is not with him (not to say it couldn't happen with another, but I think given that it took me 40 years to find P to make that reaction happen in me, the chances are pretty unlikely! lol)

I am getting sweet F-All from this R lately. And it's been that way since ... Sept, Oct. Since then .... I've just wanted him to come home so I could see with my own two eyes, if we were still a couple. To see if things fell back into place. Now it's pretty clear they will not!

If something NEW happens with us, great. But reviving what we once had is not something I want. NOR does he.



It was "so good" for so short...

Do you want THIS man's child? What do you love about him? Not how he acted with you good or bad but what are his qualities you admired or loved?

And now?


- He was so amazingly sweet. I remember I used to tease him about being a tough infantry man. Hard on the outside but so soft on the inside. His romantic gestures were beautiful (and actually didn't make me wanna barf! LOL) and his kindness towards animals won me over
-He was such a protector and provider. I knew that if were were trapped on a desert island I would have a roof over my head within half a day. He was my McGyver. Or when he found out he was deployed, since I don't drive he bought a freezer and filled it with meat and bought a six months supply of everything heavy so I wouldn't be too burdened.
-He always put me first. We were always joke-arguing about who's need would come first
-He loved who I was, warts and all. He showed this on several occassions.
-He told me if I couldn't end up having a child, we would adopt. Keeping me was more important than having a natural child (he told me this again in thailand)
-He's SO smart. Scary smart. His mind facinates me
-He's brave but also not afraid to admit when he's scared
I could go on but I'm kind of making myself feel a little blue remembering all the things that made me fall for him.

(oh and he is a MEAN cook!!)




As for my h's deployment, I am not thrilled for obvious reasons. Been there, done that. Thought the war was over too btw....and he's taking a HUGE PAY CUT to go so we're going to maybe lose our home.

IOW we were active duty but now he's in the reserves. H Does Army stuff one weekend a month but works in private practice the rest of the time.

Now when he's deployed and they do NOT match his civilian pay all I can do legally is keep the home from being foreclosed....WHILE HE'S GONE , BUT the month he returns we lose it.

Nice touch huh?

I don't F-ing get that!!! excuse my language but I am so mad for you. That is horrible. I don't know to much about how the US army standards work but that really seems unfair.

but you know how I cope with that and having 2 kids at home and working? And not letting free floating angst about him being bombed hit me in the face every hour?

By realizing that in the grand scheme of things, if the only thing we lose by my h going off to a war zone is a house,

then we'll start over and build again, and we'll be luckier than thousands of soldiers who did NOT come home
OR
who came home missing limbs.

My h treats those soliders now in the wounded warriors project.

I believe in supporting the military and detest spouses who cheat or fool around with money while their partners are in war zones or just overseas serving their nations for that matter.

b/c it's really a dastardly thing to do. It's like cheating on a pregnant woman. You just don't do it. It is what a "CAD" would do...


I agree. And this is a lot of the source of my guilt in this sitch. I always felt bad making a stink about anything because he was in a war zone. And he blames me and has horrible resentment towards me for thailand being so ... volatile. I know its not all my fault but he certainly tries to make it that way to ease his ... regret most likely. I give kudos to your H and I love your outlook on life. I pray for your H safe return. I can't wait until we stop sending our loved ones to that place but I guess if not that place, there will always be another
But he's been a cad to you and you are NOT doing anything wrong by simply arranging to move out and be on your own AS HE HAS REQUESTED...

I didn't see a retraction from him. How can you feel guilty about anything here? I'm a little worried that you need to talk to a t if you think you've done anything wrong or are you leaving something out?

Was there a retraction? Did he ask you to stay in the home?


Yes i thought I put in it there. Immediately after his mean email re: me finding the Skype invite, he wrote me another saying it would be better for all involved if I just stayed and then he would help me move once he got home. As well, our short convo on Sun nite said the same thing. "I will give you till May 1 then I will even help you move"


Even so, why depend on him for anything? it's such a set up for being a doormat b/c you'll feel so trapped.

And that's exactly the oppposite of what you need to be if you want to attract him.

As I stated to him, it's not so much depend, but I said basically..."I'm doing you a favor by staying, can you please repay by letting me stay till it's convenient for ME to leave" He agreed

I'd move out and GAL big time, and MAYBE if you can, take the dog or some item that means he'll have to contact you. The dog is best but can't be a hassle to rent a place with.

Then he'll see you looKing GOOD and being upbeat and NOT taking him to the cleaners but being independent and attractive, and expecting NOTHING FROM HIM AT ALL...

and being mysterious and busy acting as if you "get" his choice and you accept it with resignation and regret FOR HIS SAKE,

b/c YOU know YOU will be fine without him as you were before AND you are an improved version of yourself now, so great things are happening in your life now and right around the corner too...

You know this b/c YOU have become a woman only a fool would leave

and if you become your best self and he still chooses OW or to move on

then he is a fool and it's a BLESSING to learn this now.

a bientot!

[Oneeleven]

"CAN I ASK: What do you mean "act as if, but not tell him" act as if I am dating?"

So much of this (DB'ing) is just a kinda mind game. 99% of the time you could effect a change in your R and never say a word. As an example. Just walk down the road and wave at random people.. most of them are going to wave back. Or just standing somewhere in a group of people look down and point at the ground.. chances are most of the group will look down with you. People respond to actions and what they see. Imagine if you were in that same group and just said "Look down!" what are those people going to be looking at? I got money they won't be looking down.. but right at you trying to figure out why you just said that. I understand that you can't "see" him. But if you talk to him on the phone.. smile.. even if you are mad. If he texts/emails you crap.. don't respond. Simple things like that help.

Ah I see.. so I did good by ignoring the "wtf do you want" email. LOL!

[Oneeleven]

Well, I think I answered my own question in the title of this thread.

I did a Google search of my Exes user name for dating sites again, but this time put the location he is staying in beside it.

I found two more sites.

One of them lists the date of sign up and the last date of sign in clear as day.

He signed up July 2 and last sign in was July 7. Which means.....he signed up two weeks after leaving Canada. During which time he was calling me constantly. Emailing me several times a day, Skyping me, and even texting until we discovered it was hideously expensive.

So I've been duped folks.

He must have planned to just keep me hanging on to take care of his house and dog.

After we met mid tour in Thailand I guess he figured he was safe tto tell me to beat it. Or at the least, not have to keep up the game of pretending like he actually liked me.

So yes, the deal is done.

I will stay here until just before he returns. At which point, I will take $2000 from his account for his part of the wedding trip which will give me the money I need to make it convenient for ME to move.

I will play along like everything is fine until then so he will notify me when exactly he is expected.

II will then book it.

Nice talking with you folks and sorry for wasting your time here.

[Oneeleven]

Hi everyone (or hi to those of you who read my thread)

Question to those of you who have had to 'act as if' under duress/extreme awkward moments

My Ex is due home at the end of Feb.

I've decided to stay there until it's convenient for me monetarily wise and time wise to move (not to mention moving when the snow is mostly gone here. Moving in minus 20 weather in 5 feet of snow sux poo-poo and should be avoided at all costs).

(oh and for those of you who read above thing I am being a selfish bi-aaaaa...h... please have a glance at my thread and you will understand why).

My sitch is that ex is coming home from deployment at end of Feb. Things as they stand are pretty volatile. But with the 6-7 weeks left, it should cool off b/c I've gone no contact. His horrible anger issues usually fizzle out when I ignore him.

My plan: Once home, i will make sure his house is in ship-shape, just so that there is no reason for him to yell at me about that. And also to take his lead. If he seems bi*tchy... to make myself scares.

I plan on moving my personal bedroom belongings to the spare room in the basement ahead of time.

Any ways that you can suggest to 'act as if' that won't come off as fake and condecending?

Also, do you think it's appropriate for me to start packing some of my personal stuff from around the house? I mean stuff that is not needed IE: nicknacks.

OH and I want to bring the TV that is in our room to my new basement room.

Is it okay for him to come home to that or does it come across like I am 'trying to prove a point'.


FWIW: the acting as if I don't care for him any longer I can do I think. I am so mad at the latest discoveries that I no longer want him back (unless he claims he was abducted by aliens and shows me a sworn statement from the ship's crew).

Thanks so much for the assistance guys, I thought you'd have the best advice here!

111

[ANS]

Hi 111,

I've been acting As-if for a very long time now. In my case, I don't act as-if I don't care for my W. The way I look at it, I'm acting as-if it's OK that she doesn't care about me.

On the 180 front, I'm doing as much housework, yard work, caring for our autistic son, etc. that I possibly can (given that I'm the major bread winner in our family).

Bearing my background in mind, I have the following observations for you...

Keeping his house "ship-shape", just so that there is no reason for him to yell at you, and also to "take his lead. If he seems bi*tchy... to make myself scares." may not exactly be acting as-if you don't care, but it does fulfil the idea of acting as-if it's OK that he doesn't care about you. At the same time you're not pushing his buttons. I think that's good.

I don't think it'll come off as fake and condecending, but of course, it all depends on his perception. You can't do anything about that.

As for moving to the spare room, and redecorating a little, maybe it'll also show your independence. I had a friend whose W moved out of their bedroom. She didn't like it at all when he redecorated the bedroom. But hey. She moved out right? It kinda brought home the fact that he was adapting to her decisions.

I think the bottom line is that you can't stop him from thinking that you're 'trying to prove a point' at this time. If he interprets it that way, so be it. Over the long haul, he'll have the opportunity to change his perception.

[JustStunned]

One11, I am very glad you have found a way to be at peace. I have followed your thread from the beginning biting my tongue. I have been deployed and seen actions such as you have described. I did not believe the posts I began would have been constructive. I have been accused of having the tact of a hand grenade. I was relieved reading 25’s posts to you.

If these help here are the 37 rules that you will find sprinkled about this board. You may have already reviewed them. I believe Sandi deserves credit for these. Adapt as you see fit

“And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules”.~ Barbossa Pirates of the Caribbean

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.