Thanks for all the advice everyone and the support, everyone here is great.
I didn't follow any DB methods for the last 2 days since the D-bomb was dropped.
We talked the last 2 days, in person and on the phone about R and D. There were a lot of both positives and negatives.
One huge positive is that I am much more prepared for D than I thought. I thought it would hurt a lot more, but my spirit is a lot stronger now with my 180s.
Today was a big conversation. She dropped S off and I started a casual conversation up with her.
Once we got talking I asked her if she thought about what I asked her on Christmas day about considering having sex. She said she thought a lot about it, and would really like to, but on the same level she isn't sure she is ready for that yet.
We talked then about why I have hyper sexuality issues, and why having sex with her is how I show my intimacy. She said it all made sense.
I then broke a huge DB rule. I asked her about the goals we made at our first counseling session. She said she couldn't really make any (which is why she said she "knew" she was at the point of no return), but 2 she thought of were her walking on eggshell feeling and showing more affection.
I then showed her my goal sheet. It was something the counselor told us to do. I told her I made this after the first session together and after reading "The Four Agreements" (Here is my revised list):
• Quit Drinking Sober starting November 3rd, 2011
• Control of Money *Separate bank accounts
*Say “We can look into it, maybe put some money aside and get it after a future pay” instead of “No, we can’t afford it”
*I am not sole provider, can’t justify buying something for her that is just as expensive or more expensive as her wanting to buy something for herself, S, or all of us.
• Communication *Actively LISTEN: STOP WHAT I AM DOING, LOOK HER IN THEY EYES, AND LISTEN, and validate her, openly talk about anything and everything
*No more “Stonewalling” If I am acting like there is something wrong maybe there is, if she asks about it, TALK about it regardless
*If she tells me something she has already told me before, let her tell it again, it obviously has meaning to her. Say, “I remember you telling me about that…go on…”
*If she tells me something that I already know about, instead of saying “Yes, I know,” and it being the end of the conversation, say “I read/heard about that…” then discuss it with her.
*If we disagree on something or have a fight “I see what you mean, I don’t necessarily agree, but I understand.”
*Positive Reinforcement: The answer is NEVER NO!! We can talk about it, and agree on it. If she is having a bad day, find something good about it. Don’t point out negatives in her work, unless she asks for judgment
*Respect her decisions and opinions / we are equal in all decisions
*NEVER ASSUME
• Stop trying to be a perfectionist
*Everybody has their own view of perfection, there is no true perfection, don’t expect perfection
*Do set agreements on standards with each other
*Share housework (do it together) so we both know each other’s standards
*ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST
• Religion
*“A family that prays together stays together”
*Find a church we both like and agree on and can make it to the services as much as possible
*Family Dinner
• Show her my feelings / Become her Best Friend
*Do random small stuff, like nurturing her when she is sick, flowers just because, a note that says “I love you”, etc.
*Reciprocate “I Love You” every time
*Hug and kiss her on “hellos”, “goodbyes”, “good mornings” and “good nights”.
*Appreciate everything she does; don’t point out negatives when she does something for me, Always say “Thank You.”
*Night out just 2 of us at least once a month
*If she asks to go somewhere with her GO! (Hiking, visit parents/grandparents, park, store, etc.)
*Get involved with her interests and try new stuff *Give her the best of you
*Talk to her about her Fibromyalgia and comfort her/help her
*Never take her for granted
• NO JELOUSY
*Spend more time with her family, she loves them, I should too
• “WALKING ON EGGSHELLS”
How I can help her trust me again:
*Quit drinking: no more nastiness
*No more perfectionist attitude
*Control anger (don’t take things personal, it’s NOT her fault don’t make her feel like it is)
*If I am upset, let her know why!! Don’t push her away
*Accept I am wrong at times (my opinion is not the only opinion), and not be offended by it (don’t take things personal)
*Appreciate everything she does; NEVER point out negatives or what else she could do when she does something for me
*SAY THANK YOU!!!!!! Give her a hug and kiss to show her I appreciate her
*DON’T TAKE THINGS PERSONAL
• De-stress time when I get home from work: (AGREEMENT TOGETHER)
*Greet each other (some small talk), exercise or go for family walk, then talk about day
• De-stress time when W gets home from work: (AGREEMENT TOGETHER)
*Greet each other (some small talk), go for family walk if she wants to, let her vent (massage her back, shoulders and feet while she vents)
After she looked at them she said she wished I had made the list 8 months ago. I agreed and told her, I do get it now.
She told me how she has been asked out a lot lately, but not to worry because she wouldn't date or be with anyone else until we D. She said she was scared of STDs and such, although she was curious. I told her I wouldn't date either, and that was a great thing about being married.
We really had one of those moments here. She was pointing good things out about being married to each other, not having to worry about us cheating on each other and such.
There was a moment also she did say about our wedding pictures, that she wanted to save them for our S IF we divorced.
I know I broke rules, and right now she still wants a D, she said she feels like she put everything she had into our M and feels empty. I do think for the first time she may have had 2nd thoughts.
She mentioned a few times too, that we were having a good conversation and she enjoyed them. There were other connecting moments as well, it was about an hour and a half talk today, but this post is long enough as is, so I will let it go for now.
I will go back to DBing.
My goal is still being her best friend, which I told her. I reiterated that I am not giving up on us. It will be interesting to see what tomorrow morning will bring.
M 33 W 29 S 4 M 5 T 7 11/7/11 Separation, W moves in with parents 12/1/11 W: "IDLY, I'm not coming back, it's over" 1/7/12 D Bomb Dropped
Some feedback, advice, input would be great. I know I deserve a big 2x4, but honestly I think we did have our best connection today then we had in a long time including before our separation. We both only had one moment of crying, and it wasn't for more than a minute.
W even made statement when S said "Mommy you have to leave now!", I said "But mommy and daddy are having a good conversation." She said "Yes for once we aren't arguing or crying our eyes out." She also said she missed talks like this, and didn't know why we stopped having them. I told her I love having them too, they actually stimulate me.
She left the house smiling.
M 33 W 29 S 4 M 5 T 7 11/7/11 Separation, W moves in with parents 12/1/11 W: "IDLY, I'm not coming back, it's over" 1/7/12 D Bomb Dropped
Thanks, labug. I read that list everyday and edit it as needed, and it is free for all to use and share.
As I said in the long post, hurts me that I didn't know sooner what she was feeling, because she knows I get it now.
She says it is too late, she is beyond the point of no return and feels empty.
What exactly can I do about this? Going dark doesn't seem to be the answer. People say detach, I feel I AM detached as much detached as I am going to get.
This morning we talked more of the usual, no real relationship stuff. I did mention how much I like to talk to her in the morning before work.
I said that was one thing that was great about when I worked second shift, we could talk in the morning before I went to work, and she said when I came home if I was stressed I slept it off. I said yeah and you used to wake me up every morning [with sex]. She laughed and said she couldn't help it.
She brought up future arraignments for S (daycare), so she wouldn't have to get up so early. I told her what we have right now is working out ok, so we have time to figure something out.
All in all a decent conversation, I was worried what she would say after yesterday.
M 33 W 29 S 4 M 5 T 7 11/7/11 Separation, W moves in with parents 12/1/11 W: "IDLY, I'm not coming back, it's over" 1/7/12 D Bomb Dropped
What exactly can I do about this? Going dark doesn't seem to be the answer. People say detach, I feel I AM detached as much detached as I am going to get.
CO, I think you may be thinking about this wrong...
Detaching isn't a physical thing. Detaching is a state of mind, that takes a lot of thought stopping, and even more focusing on the things you CAN change.
Detaching is a peace , that you are doing the things you meed to do, not to induce a reaction, rather regardless of the reaction...
Because it is the right thing to do...
It is when you stop wondering what magic thing you can say or do to get her to change her mind. It is when you can step back and think with your head instead of your heart, and stop giving in to the emotion that we all have lived with throughout the first months of the bomb.
It is where the DB rubber meets the road, and you GAL, and start working toward your goals.
It is when you start looking in the mirror at yourself, accepting your role in the breakdown of the marriage, and working toward bettering yourself. REGARDLESS of how she sees it..
It is about making good, rational decisions, and stop making those decisions out of fear, and regret...
It is about forgiving yourself, and making changes so that you don't find yourself here again in a few years, wondering what the hell happened...again....
Going dark , sometimes, is the best path to get there...
Going dark protects you from the irrational, batt-schidt , crazy stuff around you, to allow yourself TIME to detach....
You have a great list of things you have stopped, and things you want to do...
Thanks Mach 1, I did read this difference between the two before, I think you may have posted it on someone else's thread, and it is a great definition. Thank you so much for the advice.
I do know the difference. I am at peace (mostly anyway). I know I am on the right path, regardless of how this all turns out, I will be ok in the end.
I am still at the point though (this is where I may not be fully detached) that I do care if she comes back, because obviously I want this to work. Will I be hurt if she doesn't, yes, will I be crushed, no, I know life will go on.
A lot of my list does take practice of doing it every day (interaction with her would be best, right now I do what I can when I can with who I can).
The waiting game is what most people say you have to play. I tried that, then panicked and showed her the list and the other things [all in my big post], and I feel I finally sort of reached her.
Now that I sort of reached her, I wonder what can I do to make her start doubting her decision even more. Other than of course being someone only a fool would leave (still doing that with my 180s!!!)
Is there a way to help lose that emptiness and bring her back across the point of no return?
This is where IC is failing me. Our MC pretty much conceded since she says she feels this way there is nothing left for her to do but divorce me and seek a specialist to help treat her for her depression, PTSD and fibromyalgia.
M 33 W 29 S 4 M 5 T 7 11/7/11 Separation, W moves in with parents 12/1/11 W: "IDLY, I'm not coming back, it's over" 1/7/12 D Bomb Dropped
I think you gave her a lot to think about and hopefully she will give you another chance. You seem really sincere and want to work this bad situation out.
Unfortunately when I read most of these threads if it is a WAW they seem to walk for good compared to men. Not sure why but that is what I have noticed.
Anyone have any idea why this is the case or am I missing something?
M 42 W 41 S 10 D 7 M 15 Years T 20 Years Divorce busted
Well Shaky, from what I know, and the way my IC explained it to me was my W left me finally because she no longer had any feelings left and the only way she can get over her hurt is through a D.
That is why it hurts me so much when my W continuously says she "feels empty" and is "past the point of no return".
It dims my hope that she will ever want to come back, even though she knows I have changed, and things can be better.
She told me a few times she can forgive me, but not forget things that happened, and we could never start fresh.
Men supposedly leave before they reach this point. Which is probably true.
I know and admitted to my W that I had thoughts that we should have separated or D. I even had brief thoughts of looking for another woman.
Those thoughts weren't too long ago, then she dropped the bomb on me. After that I realized how much I loved her and any thought of wanting a D or OW were out of sight.
M 33 W 29 S 4 M 5 T 7 11/7/11 Separation, W moves in with parents 12/1/11 W: "IDLY, I'm not coming back, it's over" 1/7/12 D Bomb Dropped
You're making progress. Don't give up. I'm not sure you should have showed her your list but you did and she seemed to appreciate it. I am far from one to say you shouldn't have show her bc your counselor seemed to think it was ok. Is he or she a DB minded counselor? Anyway, it is easier said than done but you may want to go a little darker for awhile. Let her wonder what you are up to and who you are with. She is well aware you want to get back together so ou needn't keep telling her. Stop talking about your R with her and stop talking about the future. She is going to MC with you and that is a huge thing. Let her live her life for a bit and see how it goes. I know I'm not one to talk but this could help in your situation. You are doing great and maybe a little taste of what it would be like without you, while of course doing what's best for your son, may get her to think about things a bit faster. Im no expert so take it for what it's worth. Just a thought..
