I cant believe you watched "crazy stupid love" with your W. That movie would have been totally up my alley pre-bomb but now I could bear to watch it. And you guys enjoyed it, how awesome!?
You seem like you are in a good place - art galleries & castles, sounds like a date?
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
I have made it a rule to avoid anything that has 'love' concepts in it- let alone in the title... very brave! I bet the similarities weren't lost on her as well... maybe she'll start thinking.
Enjoy your...mmmm, errrr, dates? Museum and castle visits sound like more than just a 'hang out'
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
LAbug said - You are seeing much more improvement than I am,
Rick said - sometimes its hard to keep all of this in order in my mind, you know - detach, don't be attached to her actions, improve myself, learn from my mistakes, give my W the time and support she needs, take care of the kids practically and emotionally, live my daily life, handle my roller coaster emotions, GAL, think ahead to a new me and possibly a life w/o my W, the state of the world, etc., etc.
I finally just made it easier on myself and siad no matter what I'm going to learn from this and become a better H, I'm going to support my W and give her whatever time she needs no matter the outcome, I'm going to think in terms of how can I help others instead of how things affect me, in conversdations with others I will focus on seeking to understand (I was pretty much like this with others but really not with my W).
Somehow things are turning around. I think. Whatever the outcome I know how I'm going to use my time here on earth.
LAbug said - I always had the right answer, the logical argument, etc.
Rick said - my W, MIL and me had a long conversation last night about all of this. My W's breakdown/crisis and the potential loss of our M was the catalyst for me really seeing how I had become as a person and as a H (the good, bad and ugly). If this hadn't happened neither my W or I would have broken the lifelong habits we developed as protective reactions to our childhood traumas. We both realize that this is the case for both of us and see in each other how we have faced this head on and are evolving.
I don't know if this will help you as you have said you see the similarities between you and me. I really had so many fear based reactions, and one of the constant fears was that my W would not make choices that would be for the good of our families but would harm us. With that thought process leading the way I felt I needed to control so much, and my logic had to be right. What I couldn't do was slow down, listen to her, think in terms of how her emotions were right for her because that is where she was, accept and even embrace the differences. I was so insanely in survival mode and so focused that she could not unburden herself with me. It was already her lifelong issue with her terror of opening up, and then she was married to someone who would meet things head on like it was the end of the world. It only served to push her further into herself.
FWIW, we have made so many gains in self-realization and putting it into practice that we are realizing that we are now able to talk through most issues together, give each other the peaceful place to share it, not feel threatened by each others reactions, and actually feel very much like a united front.
All I can say is that time, self-honesty, and detaching do seem to change the environment for the better; and who knows where that will ultimately lead.
Bklyn said - I cant believe you watched "crazy stupid love" with your W.
Rick said - I don't think either of us thought it through as a comparison to our own sitch when we chose to watch it. Quite the suprise as it unfolded though! And I was just trying to avoid another movie which I thought would be a downer for her.
Bklyn said - seem like you are in a good place - art galleries & castles, sounds like a date?
Rick said - We've been doing this sort of thing quite often and I must say they have been so fulfilling and enjoyable. It really does feel like when we were first together in the quality. The good news for me is that its now her suggesting these trips and none of it feels forced.
Brklyn - a couple of important points:
- this all feels hopeful but I am sticking to what I have learned from this and that no matter what, I am going to live with the newfound realizations that I obtained through this trail by fire, and I want to focus on others more so than before when I was always filtering everything through its affects on me. Kind of like saying if you focus on giving you will always feel fulfilled. Not saying that my emotions are still not up and down though
- if my W and I can even get to this point from where it was obscenely horrible when the bomb dropped, then the same can happen for you. Time, support of your S, and all the other DB principles will give your M that chance.
- my W could tell me tomorrow that she can't do this, this slow mo recovery, so believe me when I tell you that I am cautiously optimistic.
- when the DB principles say to stop giving your S more reasons to continue the walk away, this is so true. It was unbelievable true for me. You know the chapter about it takes one to tango? Yeah, it really is true as least as I can see it at this point.
Purg said - a rule to avoid anything that has 'love' concepts in it- let alone in the title... very brave! I bet the similarities weren't lost on her as well... maybe she'll start thinking.
Rick said - not so much brave as ignorant! The similarites were certainly not lost on her. We kept looking at each other in a holy sht kind of way, and laughing.
Purg said - Enjoy your...mmmm, errrr, dates? Museum and castle visits sound like more than just a 'hang out'
Rick said - they certainly have helped, so much so that she's now taking the lead on suggesting and planning. They really do feel like first dates lately. Just lots of fun.
I see my sons watching this happen and I can feel a kind of collective sigh of relief from them. Really, to go from the almost total anarchy we were experiencing in March to this is quite nice. If anything, the thawing is really helping. I'm not going overboard though. Whatever this is, a recovery for one or both of us, a reconciliation, a stage in this, whatever, I know there is much more time needed ahead esp for my W who is dealing with a number of lifelong issues at once. Step be step here.
Okay guys. Let me share with you A Day in the Life, in the DB world.
Yesterday, was a great day with my W...art museum, dinner out, great conversdation, shared deep stuff but lots of light heartedness too. My W is suggesting many other trips too so in and of themselves should be great times.
We get a call from her MIL who lives with us in the in-law apt, and she wants to talk to us. So we go see her. She says she wants to move out and needs help economically to do so, and to provide for herself in the future. One of her main reasons to leave is that she couldn't bear to watch our family fracture and it has been killing her.
Now, know that she and my W are so much alike in retreating into their inner shells, not facing stuff head on, and then just exploding in a worldwind of emotion down the road. So, this would have to be handled with exquisite care.
Suprisingly my W takes the lead in suggesting that the issues that plagued her, her entire life are in many cases the same issues that plague her Mom. My W said that her facing of these issues and learning to overcome them are what is helping us in our M and maybe we can apply the same awareness to this sitch. She told her Mom that her Mom isn't really up to date on where our M is, nor its affects on the kids. She said that we are really way much further along and in a much better place than we were before, that we are both fully aware of the others issues, progress, need for time and understand each other very well right now. I just sat back and thought "yeah baby, keep talking".
So then, the floodgates were open in terms of how with the things we all needed to learn about ourselves, and improve on, were preventing many key areas of understanding between us all, and how it affected our quality of life. My W was literally saying that, yeah we all freaked out when the bomb dropped but in the end have managed to get this far without the even larger damage we have seen in other family members sitches. I was thinking, "wow, you do see our strengths now, and that the original horror when the bomb dropped was truly many overreactions by all of us to something brand new and massively challenging".
My W said that we all have a choice here, we can certainly blow this all up or we can sit back, communicate, listen, and come up with new answers. We can and should make a point to stop bottling up things, bring them out in the open and find better solutions. I thought to myself, thank the M gods for her saying this. Early in our bomb days I used to suggest this same thing for us but she wasn't ready to hear it. In fact would tell me I was out of my mind and we had no chance whatsoever.
This conversation gave us all the chance to acknowledge how each of us in our own way and with our own issues made life difficult for the others. And, how we have learned new things and we all got the chance to say how we have learned and can be better as individuals and as family members.
We will see. So much input in a day!
It got me to thinking about something 25yrs said and I have been trying to wrap my mind around it since. It was something along the lines of how in a M, you might think you have some sort of contract with the other but in the end you don't. Kind of like they are their own person and so are you and you don't "own" the other. If the other chooses to leave they certainly have that right.
I struggle with the idea that at least for me, when I married I felt like there was still a me as an individual, but there was also this me/her marriage hybrid person so I took if that this would be the case forever. I guess, with that mindset I innocently took for granted that there would always be an "us".
Somewhere along the many thousands of posts I've seen was her comment along the lines of that there is no contract and you have to earn your M every day. Every day is a gift so handle it as such I think she was saying.
I thinking about it. Do you really take the mindset that every day is just this sole entity, kind of like completely living in the now? Do you not take comfort in being married as a sense of how nice this is to know that you have melded with this person for life? Or, is that too possesive? Should you just take every day, make the most of it, and do the highest and best things you can do? Does this all apply in a M?
The other thing I have been thinking about is that I keep reading people here post about "piecing". What is that about? I dont recall it in the DB book but maybe I should go back and look again. Can anyone explain it, or direct me where to find it? Is this what is happening to my M now?
Okay guys. Let me share with you A Day in the Life, in the DB world.
Yesterday, was a great day with my W...art museum, dinner out, great conversdation, shared deep stuff but lots of light heartedness too. My W is suggesting many other trips too so in and of themselves should be great times.
We get a call from her MIL who lives with us in the in-law apt, and she wants to talk to us. So we go see her. She says she wants to move out and needs help economically to do so, and to provide for herself in the future. One of her main reasons is that she couldn't bear to watch our family fracture and it has been killing her.
Now, know that she and my W are so much alike in retreating into their inner shells, not facing stuff head on, and then just exploding in a worldwind of emotion down the road. So, this would have to be handled with exquisite care.
Suprisingly my W takes the lead in suggesting that the issues that plagued her, her entire life are in many cases the same issues that plague her Mom. My W said that her facing of these issues and learning to overcome them are what is helping us in our M and we should apply the same awareness to this sitch. She told her Mom that her Mom isn't really up to date on where our M is, nor its affects on the kids. She said that we are really way much further along and in a much better place than we were before, that we are both fully aware of the others issues, progress, need for time and understand each other very well right now. I just sat back and thought "yeah baby, keep talking".
So then, the floodgates were open in terms of how with the things we all needed to learn about ourselves, and improve on, were preventing many key areas of understanding between us all, and how it affected our quality of life. My W was literally saying that, yeah we all freaked out when the bomb dropped but in the end have managed to get this far without the even larger damage we have seen in other fanily members sitches. I was thinking, "wow, you do see our strengths now, and that the original horror when the bomb dropped was truly many overreactions by all of us to something brand new and massively challenging".
My W said that we all have a choice here, we can certainly bloe this all up or we can sit back, communicate, listen, and come up with new answers. We c
...lifelong habits we developed as protective reactions to our childhood traumas. ME
I really had so many fear based reactions, and one of the constant fears was that my W would not make choices that would be for the good of our families but would harm us. With that thought process leading the way I felt I needed to control so much, and my logic had to be right. What I couldn't do was slow down, listen to her, think in terms of how her emotions were right for her because that is where she was, accept and even embrace the differences. ME
someone who would meet things head on like it was the end of the world. Me
we are realizing that we are now able to talk through most issues together, give each other the peaceful place to share it, not feel threatened by each others reactions, and actually feel very much like a united front. What I want to be
All I can say is that time, self-honesty, and detaching do seem to change the environment for the better; and who knows where that will ultimately lead.
Thanks for sharing this, it really helps. I have made great strides and know that I would not be as far along if H had not dropped the bomb.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
