Update: W and I discussed the D process last night. Conversation began when W said her financial situation is not good and is very upsetting to her. (Continuing theme in our M.) I said D process is costly. W said she wants D to be non contentious. She got upset when I said I wanted a 50/50 split in time with the kids. W says that is not in their interest. I told her that the Ls should deal with the legal matters. I said that D makes Ls rich and the couple poorer. W said I was being difficult. I said that I wanted to be a great parent to the kids and that required time together. During the conversation the R came up and W told me that she knew I had changed since the S. Given that, I asked W if she was Ding the man I was or the man I have become. W said, I am probably Ding the man you were. W said that she had given that man several second chances and could not risk giving him another second chance because life is precious and she had already given that man too much of her life. I said I am not that man. W and I left it at that with her saying she would think about things, we put the kids in bed, and watched a movie together.
Forgot to add and think this is important: W said that she was very upset at me that it took the S and filing D papers for me to wake up. She said I had many opportunities before and had I made the changes then we would not be in this position. I validated like crazy because she was absolutely right!
James my advice is to not have D talks and the process. I would just say W I really don't know how it works we will have to ask our L's when the time comes. I did the same thing and it back fired. My W does not bring the D up at all and neither do I. listen and validate as you did. Good job
"Forgot to add and think this is important: W said that she was very upset at me that it took the S and filing D papers for me to wake up. She said I had many opportunities before and had I made the changes then we would not be in this position"
I don't think that this^^^^ is too bad. At least she is communicating and you are NOW listening. Good hang in there
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks, Rick. My W initiated the conversation. I said several times that the reason we have Ls is to discuss the D and that she and I will be together because of the kids for a long time so we should focus on keeping things positive between us and let the Ls do the legal thing. I also tried my hardest not to use the D topic as a way to get into a R discussion. I was surprised we end up there. Not sure where we go from here or if this subject will come up again any time soon. Thanks for the compliment. I will take any positivity I can get.
James, I agree with Rick on this. The fact that your W is opening up some is a sign of progress. Just do your best to validate without defending. And yes, letting the L's do the dirty work and what they are paid to do will serve you and your W well for the future if a R is in the cards.
Continue to let your W raise the topic of R or D. This way you are not coming off as pursuing.
I think I've seen it stated that if/when these types of conversations come up that you should make statements like - "there are a lot of things I would do differently if I had to do it over again" or "You are right W, I wasn't listening then, but I am now and I am working on being a better husband, father, etc.". All of these are validating and forward looking.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Thanks, 2TP. I am working to validate at every opportunity. I have dropped any effort to defend. I did say to my W that there were many things I would do differently if I had the M to do all over again. When I did, she said, you should have and if you would have we wouldn't be in this situation! I agreed whole heartedly. She shook her head and told me that she did not know why she had to file for D to get me to change when I had so many opportunities to change and she had been telling me to get my act together in so many ways. Not sure how to read that. She has told me in the past that what I am doing is too little too late but, she has not said that in a while. She now says that she does not want to take the risk of giving me a second chance.
"She shook her head and told me that she did not know why she had to file for D to get me to change when I had so many opportunities to change and she had been telling me to get my act together in so many ways."
Here's the irony, MWD says that often what the WAW fails to realize is that men are fixers and respond best to Actions vs. Words. So when the WAW says things like yours did, "I had been telling you to get your act together..." well, those are just words.
Had she scheduled an appointment for you two to go to MC, I suspect you'd have straightened right up. Or if she had said if you don't do X I'm going to do Y, you'd have probably taken notice there as well.
But when all we hear is nag, nag, nag and then it stops out of the blue, we think well, things are finally getting better. But then when the WAW takes action, POW!!
We learn so much through this process, don't we?
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Thanks, 2TP. Very true. I did not hear my W's words. I misinterpreted them as nagging. Early in the S I told her this. She said, see, you should have listened to me. This process has been incredibily difficult but also amazing. Although I am hurting for my M/R, I am grateful to my W for initating the S/D. Without it I would never have GAL and never snapped out of my bad husband ways. I would have continued blaming her for things that were my fault. I told this to my W some time ago and thanked her (very surreal moment given my desire to stay in the M/R). This process stinks but it is also very rewarding if you work every day to stay awake. Here's to hard work and hope.
So very true. This experience really wakes you up in a very painful way. One day you are on top of the world and next you are completely lost and hopeless. We get used or believe that the R/M will always be there no matter what. I think of a R as I do about life now it can change on a dime . It is like that commercial where they say life comes at you fast. The most tiring thing to me has been the obsession of looking back at my baggage. Things I said and did. I can not stop it at times. I hope we all change and be happier and better people from this.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
This experience really wakes you up in a very painful way.
Very well put, Rick, a "very painful way." Your timing is also impecible. Tonight, W had a frozen pizza (cooked) waiting for me when I got home from work. I thanked her energetically and she laughed and said it's nothing and then she went to the grocery store. When she came home I had the kids in the tub (something I didn't used to do). She gave me the look of surprise that she has given me many times since the S so I said I know I didn't help with the kids much in the past but I am now and I like it so I've got this. She said ok and walked away. About an hour later we end up having have a brief conversation during which the topic of pain comes up because a friend of our is in the hospital. During the conversation I backslide and say I'm using the pain of the S to live presently and to motivate me to become a better father and man. She replies, I'm past pain. Not much is said after that. I know it has been written that a LBS is to believe half of what the WAS says but my W's remark struck me as a marching order to herself: don't let yourself feel anything for him or you might want to consider the D. I don't know what's more painful, my W's remark or that I couldn't keep my mouth shut.
