Most Likely Youngster Goes His Way (& W Goes Hers)

[25yearsmlc]

West,

forget the dang 10$!! No way are you going to look better for caring about it unless you make it about how you were trying to clarify for HER sake, etc etc

Please take Val's advice about waiting periods. We all have benefitted from that including me.

As for meetup.com - my 22 y/o daughter uses that site to meet people who speak French, enjoy classical music, and now she's in a writer's group. It's not all about dating but it CAN lead to it...and sometimes does. So it's better that sites that are strictly about dating in a lot of ways.

and last but not least btw, if your ex w's new OM can literally "last for hours", literally....trust me on this-he's taking Viagra.

...I know too many men and women who've shared LOTS of info and I have 5 brothers with high sex drives. You can't go on "FOR HOURS" without some help...or a lot of breaks in between.

and at his young age, that's NOT so impressive.

But enough of HIM...how are YOU?

and Go to Meetup.com......it's LOW risk my friend. And high yield potential!

[kml]

Yeah, lots of people here have enjoyed Meetup.com as a way to find new friends and activities - it seems like it would be a great way to GAL.

As for the "going for hours" business - sometimes guys with erectile dysfunction who have difficulty achieving orgasm can TAKE what seems like hours - not necessarily an enjoyable thing for the woman lol!

Your ex has some serious issues and really, isn't a very nice person, at least not right now. Look for positive, competent, kind people to include in your life.

[25yearsmlc]

IF there is a next time your w brings sex with ANY other man up around you
(and I almost hope there is)

I hope you'll hold up you hand with your palm outward

and say "Whoah hold on ex w, I don't expose you to MY sexual exploits and don't expect you to tell me about yours...it's called 'boundaries'..."

if you are on otherwise good terms then change topics & say something like

"now why don't you tell me about that new job/place you are getting INSTEAD?"

But if the talk is just closure of details and may be the last time you two talk, and she brings it up then you say all the rest and close with

"it's called 'boundaries', and maybe If we'd had them earlier we wouldn't be here now - but that's not my responsibility now. BUT I sure wish you well though," and get up and with a genuinely warm BUT DETACHED MANNER -

leave the area....and let her go find what it is she seeks...

don't keel over if she calls you in six months - but don't you dare wait for it either.

You can argue this is a tactic- but only in part. It's also a teaching point for HER to learn basic courtesy, AND it's a boundary setting BY YOU (and w/a little mystery tossed in there too)

You are a better man than before, and you'll be a better h than before. So there's a really good chance you'll be in a much happier marriage than before.

to whomever


((( )))

[westcoastfella]

Thanks, guys. I was in a pretty crummy place before, but now I feel much better about myself. I also appreciate hearing some female perspective on this, given that it sheds a lot of light on what might be going on in my W's head.

Re. the $10: Sorry, 25. Unfortunately, I think that I plain old messed up on this one -- just going to have to take it into stride and do whatever damage control I can. Given that she still hasn't replied to my e-mails yet, I think that she's probably doing what I ought to do -- forgetting about it and moving on.

Re. Meetup.com: It's settled. I'll start looking for some things to do this week. It'll be a little scary, but I'm more comfortable socializing now than I've ever been. It's something that I really, really want to do a lot more of.

Re. boundaries: I like your ideas on this, 25. I will admit that I really don't talk to my W anymore because of my boundaries. Oh, believe me, she has tried to inject herself into my life as "friends" many times, but I have yet to see her do so as somebody with respect for me. Still, if sex ever does come up like that, I'll be more prepared than I was to put up some good old-fashioned boundaries.

Re. being a better man/husband: I think I am, too, and I believe that this is only the beginning. So sad that it took something so devastating to instill this change within me, but I guess that's sometimes how the greatest change is brought about.

Thanks again for the advice and support, everybody! Will keep you all posted!

[westcoastfella]

I thought that I'd add that I recently posted a picture of myself on FB wearing clothes that I bought with X-mas money. They fit much better than my old ones, so they show off my "new & improved" physique. Plus, they also look more "dressy" than my old duds. I got a lot of really great comments! It made me feel pretty.

Also, I seem to have a four-day weekend coming up. I intend to make the most of it. What shall I do besides sleep in, exercise, and catch up on my reading?

An interesting point: I've noticed a recurring trend. Almost every time I discuss my W's behavior with other women away from DB.com, they seem to have a wealth of perspective about it. Many make comments in the same vein as "Women can read other women," or "women know a lot about the games women play." Most seem to be in agreement that my W is playing some pretty obvious and saddening games with me.

Just thought that was interesting.

[25yearsmlc]

I'd be madder at her if she didn't have such a wacky say background

But that's NOT YOUR problem now either, is it?

Go let her solve it. I have a feeling she can't do that with you IF it's possible at all.

So I'd rather have her return to you, if at all, patched up a bit.

Hang in there and keep posting including the pics of you in your new duds. And am I the only woman who LOVES cologne on man? Damn...I surely do.

but get a new one so you have new memories to make with them. Something about olfactory senses and early memories. But I'm into maximizing the whole experience from start to finish.

Food should LOOK good and that helps it taste good...same goes for smelling good and looking good. HOpe that makes sense...

[25yearsmlc]

EDIT!!!

should read "if wife didn't have such a wacky SAD background"....

[westcoastfella]

25, I am absolutely in agreement with you about the "being madder" comment. If she was anybody else, I would be so done with her right now and never mind if it got her panties in a bunch. But I know that she's better than all this. All I see is a girl who's hurting so much inside and doing so much harm in an attempt to fix that hurt.

Thanks for the ideas on cologne. I've got a couple -- maybe I should spritz some on tomorrow as a test.

Tonight, while I was out, my W left a voicemail telling me to call her back. When I got back home, I texted her: What's up? She asked, "Can you please call me?" as per usual. So I did. And we had a conversation that lasted for a half hour or so. I will do a lot of condensing and re-arranging (as a lot was said) for the sake of brevity and easy reading.

W: Got your message about the $10. What exactly do you want me to do about it?
M: Oh, don't even worry about it. At least now you know where your book might be off. [thanks for this one, 25 ]
W: OK. Another thing, I'm going to be visiting in March. Can you sign the D papers then?
M: Sure! Just keep me informed.
W: Okay, I don't want you to be the emotionless, "sure!" guy about all of this.
M: I don't mean to come across as emotionless or as though I'm happy about it. I've just been doing a lot of processing, and I feel like I've come to a place of acceptance with it and of embracing my new life.
W: I'm really not doing well with this. I find myself missing you a lot. I wish I could be as strong as you in dealing with this -- that's one thing that I've always admired about you, how strong you are. I sometimes think about whether or not I did the right thing, although I think that I did, because I don't think that either one of us was happy. I feel sometimes like a failure, even though my parents say that I'm not.

I feel like I'm going through a grieving period -- like my heart is broken. I've been feeling a lot of things that I can't explain... It's like you died or something. You were there with me almost every day for almost 5.5 years, and now you've been gone for six months. I considered you my best friend, and now we don't have that anymore.
M: It's going to be okay, for both of us. It really will. I want you to be happy; I really, really want that. We'll both get by. But I feel like the boundary that I set still stands.
W: Is it because of OM?
M: Mostly, yes.
W: I understand that. I just feel like every once in a while, I'll want to talk to you. [at this point, she asks some questions about my life -- am I seeing anyone? How's my job? What kind of things have I been doing? As her tone is more pleasant and respectful than it's ever been, I choose to indulge her, though I'm still very vague. I am clear that I am very happy with my life.]
W: So did you want to hear what's going on in my life, or do you even care?
M: I do care, yes, but I'd better get going. Got to do my exercise -- it's a big one tonight.
W: [getting frustrated] I guess it's always been my fault, choosing to care about someone who doesn't care about me.
M: It's not that I don't care about you. I do. I just feel like I've set a boundary, and now I've got to stick to it.
W: I don't get it. I feel like I compromised myself a lot in our R. I gave you everything that you wanted or needed every day for years, even though you hurt me hundreds of times. And I hurt you once, and you can't be there for me the one time that I need you.

I know that my R with OM has hurt you. It hurt you & it hurt my family. I wish I hadn't done it, I wish OM and I hadn't met that way. OM knows how much I hate that we met the way that we did and that I'll always walk around with it over my head. Do you feel like you're doing this because my being with OM hurts you?
M: Yes.
W: It's not my intention to hurt you, and I don't think that you ever intended to hurt me before, either. But I feel like you intend to hurt me now. Just because we're separated and getting D'd doesn't mean that we have to stop communicating. I feel like you owe me this.
M: I don't mean to be cruel or come off like I don't care about you. But I feel like you already did what you felt that you needed to do to resolve your unhappiness with us. I understand that you're doing what you need to do to find your happiness, and I'm respecting that. But the way I feel about all this is not congruent with what you want from me.
W: Fine. Have it your way. I just really feel like you're going to look back at this and wish that you'd handled things differently. I feel sorry for you.
M: I'm going now. Keep me informed about March.

Well, there it is. I think that I've hit all of the main points in the convo. I'll leave my analysis out of it, as I'd like to both give myself a day to process my feelings and perhaps get some good feedback from you all.

My main question: Did I do the right thing in sticking to my guns and pushing her away? I feel that I did, but I can't help but feel incredibly guilty about it at the same time. She sounds so unhappy...

[kml]

You did the right thing.

SHE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH ANOTHER MAN. One that is ongoing. And no, she doesn't get to keep you as her best friend AND sleep with the OM.

That discomfort is actually making her deal with what she's done in a way that she never would have done if you'd just indulged her "best friends forever" fantasy.

And the fact that she can't understand or respect the fact that you have this (entirely reasonable) boundary - says something about her selfishness.

I mean, a healthy person would understand, "wow, I really hurt my spouse by cheating on them, maybe it's too much to expect them to be my buddy right now".

Instead, she keeps getting mad at you.

Although - I will say, there's an old trick that often is enlightening. Take a statement of hers, replace all the "you"s with "I"s - and you often can hear what they are REALLY thinking.

For instance, she said:

I just really feel like you're going to look back at this and wish that you'd handled things differently. I feel sorry for you.

But she MEANT:

You just really feel like I'm going to look back at this and wish that I'd handled things differently. You feel sorry for me.

[25yearsmlc]

yeah you did the right thing. She's in another world or solar system and all planets revolve around her. She wanted YOU to comfort HER for her adultery b/c it bugs her that she "met OM the way she did" what a bunch of parsing...uyou mean when you cheated on me? IS that what you mean about how you two "met" and how you "regret THE WAY YOU MET"??? NOT that she broke her vows or crushed you but that it does not LOOK GOOD on her dating resume... I don't care what happened to her in the past.

She's very self centered and clueless AND btw, she has NOT grown an inch emotionally. Notice that It's all about how SHE hurts now b/c she cheated on you and somehow

it's all about her, again...first you neglected her and so she cheated of course, and now YOU are withdrawing b/c

of the affair AND SOME INEXCUSABLE COMMENTARY FROM HER RECENTLY....

which was clueless at best - and cruel at worst. I'd have said something abnout that and said either the polite way-

"Wow we sure don't see that event the same way at all, but that's okay b/c we don't have to agree on the past and you won't have to be unhappy anymore"

or just "Gee I sure don't see it that way AT ALL, but I'm sorry if you were hurt" and end the topic. Stand your ground that SHE's way off base there...

God forbid she OWN the mistake.

It's all in code and riddles so she wants YOU to stick your neck out and take all the risk to chase her some more

but then what? She's with him! She regrets HOW they met, NOT that they are together NOW, correct? Am I missing something?


Okay so is it possible she wants you to sweep her off her feet and win her back?

it is possible. But she sounds like she is "with" OM...

and even IF she IS wanting you to come in and take her back--or win her back with work on YOUR end (which is all I heard...NOTHING on her end of significance to work on or change or promise, and that's a bad bad sign)


Do you think this woman as she is, who shows no growth or insight into HER behavior in a way that indicates changing it anyhow...

is a good investment for your heart?

Like I said, Let HER go patch herself up and figure what she wants out and THEN SHE can come to you and say why she misses you and what she needs or wants from you

and YOU can choose what's right for YOU.

Right now she's only going to obstruct your growth and stop you from enjoying meeting new people and you MUST meet some new women to get your confidence and mojo back...

Yes I'm saying go get your swagger on and gain some experience so YOU'LL know when you are treated right...b/c she treated you horribly

and still won't admit it. And sometimes you dont' see it yourself.

Your marital mistakes were what again? IF I recall - you got complacent and depressed and I'm SURE that was a big drag...you were underemployed too?

Okay so she stuck by you...or not? She didn't....she left you b/c you were too much work? Maybe so but she did DO THAT...and you slogged through some crap and you are now better, thank God. But see

After She left you and you told her how YOU feel, she filed for divorce and THEN let you in on way too much information...and now it seems to me, that

SHE regrets that she lost ANYTHING IN HER "MARITAL TRANSACTION"

b/c when you trade one guy in for another, you DO lose the guy you traded in.

You do NOT get to keep one in reserve or pout to them about what it cost HER to make "one mistake".... God she's got the selfishiness of an elementary school brat but that offends me b/c my girls NEVER acted like this.

So YES you did the right thing and if anything you were too polite about it.

I'd want to express SOME shock at the gall of a woman who cheats on you when you were already down in the dumps, and then pouts that you won't be her bff anymore...Good God...

sorry west, geez