feeling like giving up.....former DBing against OW

[imthemom]

just sent H a text Good Morning!..:) give me a call later, need to ask a favor...

i havent done that in forever...months...but got to thinking...I know she is there...he couldnt talk last night after a certain time (when she usually comes over) He does that alot to S14..stops responding or taking calls after a certain time..and its always the same time so Ive figured out when she is there and when she is not...
anyway...i wonder how she would feel if I suddenly start being friendly and he starts talking to me more??? and how does she react when he gets a good morning text from his wife at 8:30 in the am while there laying in bed??? I really do need to borrow the dolly to move my fridge...so theres that..but just decideing to try this "experement" to see if theres anything to it......
thoughts??? 2x4s???? opinions?????
im all ears....

[Nblost]

Well, I'm not sure I'm one to give advice given I'm swirling in my own mess...but here's my perspective.

You'll see in my sitch that I've had several of these friendly/warm conversations with my H. I get encouraged by them...but in the end, it's very hard to figure out if he remembers/means what he has said OR if he is trying to manipulate me to stay on his fence (even if he isn't consciously manipulating)

I've had very bad luck sustaining anything positive. While you'd like to believe your text is going to break through the fog or interrupt his time with OM, I predict he's deleted or ignored it and blocked it out.

I had a similar situation with my H about 3 weeks ago. We had a nice conversation and he told me he thought our marriage wasn't as intimate as it should be...he then went on to say that during his affair, nothing has changed and it had gotten worse. I said I had had to detach myself from him and the pain. However, the next day, I sent him a nice little email saying I was looking forward to the holidays and I sent him a nice memory from the past. His response? Nothing. He ended up flying out that night to go on vacation with OW.

I'm more and more convinced the A has to end (and in your case, probably the alcoholism too) before you can make an impact. That isn't to say you don't want to try to do 180's, new approaches, etc. I just wouldn't get too confident that anything is breaking through.

My "new approach" is letting H know I can't go on and we need to separate if he is going to continue the A. I'm hoping reality could settle in...but, he's with OW now and won't commit to when he's coming home...so, the fog continues.

Peace and hang in there!
NB

[imthemom]

Thankfully H has been in recovery for awhile...he will have 2 yrs sober on feb. 17. there have been times that I thought he may have started drinking again but he has sworn that he has not and I nor my S14 have ever seen any different. He still goes by his sobriety bday as being Feb 17. although he has not worked on alot of the things that caused his drinking so IMO he is still behaving and acting as if he were drinking...dry drunk...

He actually did respond...just "ok..will call later"..but it was a response....He was probabley surprised that he recieved a message from me...that never happens. I think the A would have to end also before any big impact would be made...but what good does it do for me to look and act like the "evil xwife"...not having any contact and if there is its unpleasant...and then he can go to her and shes all rainbows and kittens and life is grand...why would he want to leave that ????
Im thinking I should just start including him in things we do...S14 pushes for that all the time anyways and I just avoid it. I think if I let S14 call like he wants to all the time and invite H to pizza etc...he would eventually start doing it and then we would at least have family time together to let him see what he is missing. and it wouldnt hurt my S14 either. I would love for him to see that his mom and dad can be civil...i just dont know if it will happen...he tends to avoid anything close to family time....

[Nblost]

I like your ideas. I agree...if you are cold/quiet...OW looks that much warmer/appealing.

My H has been willing to do family stuff and if you have your S initiate it and S wants it, I'd say that's perfect. (as long as H doesn't say "no" so much that it hurts S)

I try to vent my more sinister/snarky thoughts here versus at H. I generally stay quiet when he is with OW unless I truly have something to say about the kids. But, then, I try to make it fun and light.

I have just started agreeing more with the people on here who say that it's hard to "compete" with OW. I just think we need to make ourselves look like the stable, loving, caring option. Let's hope the OWs are more crazy/unstable and aren't reading DB!

Your H did give you some indication of mixed feelings, so I think you should view that as a baby step. Just be cautious in getting too excited (to quote from Abbey)

I would love to see your H come around ITM! Maybe the $ piece is a wakeup call.

[mishka422]

How's the quitting smoking going? I picked it back after the bomb after not having one for 15+ years. I'm just trying again to quit. Not easy.

[imthemom]

its not going good mish!!...i do well for a couple of days and then im back at it...i need to set a date and stick to it...i went for a run this morning and it sucked!!
but starting again tomorrow...my plan is to limit myself and cut down more and more till im at zero..:)

a friend of mine gave me a book from the movie Fire Proof...its a 40 day dare book...she thinks I should do it and even if it doesnt work out it will help me get to were I can forgive H...which is were I want to be regardless of a reconsiliation or not...Im gonna take a look at it and see if its something I want to try...she said it would be difficult because it tells you kind and loving things to do for H, which, she said I would have to commit to doing while knowing that he is still with OW....and probabley would have to modify accordingly...
we will see, not sure Im there yet...

[25yearsmlc]

MZ and Abby..
You guys have talked about how your 180s included a little bit of persueing on your part as that is what your H needed...out of curiosity, explain that to me.

Since i started this DBing i have thought that what was suggested was really counter productive because our biggest problem in our M was that H always pursued and i always was the aloof hard to get one. Yes, when he first dropped the D bomb i flipped and cried and said i would do what ever it took but he wasnt intetested...he was neck deep in A by then.


I don't want to give you any 2 x4s ITM, b/c I know you are hurting...but don't overly revise things, as we are all wont to do. It prevents our growth when we need it the most.

Your h DID want back into the m while he was in recovery but your anger at all the injustice of it all (none of which seems to matter much to you now that you focus on OW)

caused you to make it damn hard on him.

And you WERE separated when he began dating OW not just "to him" but to you as well. Your signature listed the sep before you learned of her. So there's at least a big thread of truth to how he sees that part.


OTOH he has behaved rudely to you at times. And he was a real jerk to s14 but my take on things now is that there's some improvement.

BTW In the restaurant I'd have left even if it meant eating elsewhere. No way would I allow that treatment OR

I'd have gone over and said "it's silly for me to stand there waiting when I can ask how your day is, h, and then I'll be on my way b/c I have to meet someone...(GAL implied)"...if faced with more rudeness, leave.



So now were 4 months from D..a big 180 would be to pursue..but how do i do that while he is still seeing OW and im behaving "as if" the divorce is fine with me.?

You don't do both of those and certainly not the latter.

You are simply an upbeat happy woman who has resigned herself to her h's unfortunate (unfortunate for him) choice to get a divorce.

It's as if you have a dear friend losing her sight but you are not an opthalmologist and cannot fix her eyes

so you let her bump into things until she knows where the furniture is and where she's going...you have to let her bump into things, b/c she cannot learn another way.

Your h is on a journey and for now you are Not invited...let him go BUT

be as happy and polite and upbeat as you can be about YOUR LIFE, AND WARM...as if you DO care about him (b/c you do)

but that you "get it"...he feels he's done. Okay, so you respect that.

It just so happens that you look and feel great, and your job hunt is going well and your life is moving well

and you are looking forward to what God has for you right around the corner...

b/c that's the best way to live and b/c that is, quite simply, very attractive.


Ive always felt like i went about this wrong, if i would have mildly pursued at first instead of crying...i think it would have worked better.
Just curiouse to hear peoples thoughts on this approach...

those are my thoughts...you are the agent of change here. NOT him...or if he is, he already did that by stopping the booze.

you have more power here than you realize.

[25yearsmlc]

ps and

yes you still detach!!! it's KEY

[imthemom]

I understand that the whole DB aproach is the main objective for this forum...and I have pretty much followed that, not from the very beginning but for at least the last 2 months...the talk we had the other night was the first talk we have had with each othe regarding R, I never bring it up and ive been dark for a very long time...with no steps, baby or other wise in any direction. its interesting that since ive changed my attitude he has come around, granted its only been 2 days but in those 2 days weve talked for the first time honestly and he then called yesterday and when he found out I was going out offered to check on the boys while I was out and did. That is something he use to do as a given before the OW got involved and has not done or even bothered to see S21 since then. I was actually shocked when he mentioned that "he might swing by and check on them"...

At the very least MY change in attitude has made it easier for him to communicate with me, but Im also concered that he could be "buttering me up" as he is concerned about the money he will be forced to pay when he signs the settlement agreement. Im simply listening to the complaints he had about how I treated him and using them to my benefit. How does it benefit me to stay dark and basically invisible...while OW is very visible and involved??? He said when we talked the other night that he was scared and blaming me for things that were not my problems but his and he hated himself for treating me that way, he has been more open the past month since we stopped Co Parenting but I have remainded dark and detached. I just thought maybe it was time to peek out from under the rock and see what was happening....
The way i treated him while he was in his program and working on his sobriety was completley unexceptable on my part...i was not supportive and basically bailed on him...because of my anger. That anger is gone now, ive worked hard on that...so maybe it seems like I focus on OW now...I guess I do...but im more aware of the fact that our biggest problem was communication and that is what I want to improve on regardless...we have to parent our S together and will need to be able to do that effectively how ever this turns out...and our S14 is happier when we are able to be around each other comfortably.

As far as being S when he met OW...yes we were living seperatley...but had an agreement that HE insisted on that we had sat and discussed at length because HE was concerned that I would meet someone and start dateing. We both agreed that that was not what the seperation was about, he needed to get sober and neither of us was interested in ending our marriage. And he was basically sleeping at our old house and spending every other minute here with us until the boys went to bed. We always had dinner together and we always spent weekends together....it was VERY sudden that that changed. And Im assuming that since he felt the need to lie about what he was doing, he knew it was wrong ....no matter what he is telling himself now.

I still have my days....but for the most part im going about my life, I know that I can survive without him...I just dont want to. Im aware that what I want may not matter and things may turn out not at all how I want and Im prepareing for that. Ive made big changes in my other relationships..not just with H...my relationships with my Ss, friends and family have improved because Ive made changes in me...Im proud of that.

and it is not in my nature to just roll over and let someone take my place...my nature is to fight for what i want. I always have, just not for my M or my H. which is why I thought that would be a huge 180...i have no intention to beg cry or plead like I did in the very beginning, but letting him see a side of me that he all but begged for before he met OW might not hurt....still thinking .......

[MynameisMZ]

"The way i treated him while he was in his program and working on his sobriety was completley unexceptable on my part...i was not supportive and basically bailed on him...because of my anger."

Tell him that in a very calm, unemotional, but empathic way. If this happened between you and a friend, you would say that, right? I know, it is difficult to be humble, but wow, what a release it is when you are!

As far as ow renting space in your head? That will subside and you will see how unimportant she really is.


BTW, you notice that I never capitalize "ow" and that is no accident.