WHG: Down the rabbit hole I guess

[2thepoint]

WHG I'm sure this goes without saying but I'm going to say it anyway. Everything you do after you tell your kids will determine how well they adjust to their new reality. It is critical that they feel just as loved and supported after the deed as they did before, if not more so.

Wishing you peace and strength!

[adinva]

Your cookware comment made me think WHG, you're someone only a fool would leave. You've really done well with yourself. I'm sorry your sitch has gotten to this point. Keep doing what you're doing.

[2thepoint]

Clearly Advina is a foodie!

[oldtimer]

WHG,

Please please please keep the agenda to a minimum. Don't put too much on the table for the kids.

Think about how hard it was for you to think about a separation or D, and then look at the details of custody, of housing, of move out dates, of how to handle the fractured blended family. You were NOT up for discussing all those things in one talk, your kids aren't going to be either. These lists of scripted talking points, the letter to the school, etc...., are the things that make you look very controlling.

SS does not need to hear about volunteering opportunities weeks from now. Do you really think that will be his first concern? By raising the topic you just introduce a new point of confusion/pain/questioning that probably wouldn't otherwise arise.

Stick to the basics: We love you and always will, we will always be family. It is not good for us to be married right now.

Then listen and respond. Perhaps that is your plan? Perhaps your prose are mostly just possible responses to possible questions?

As for the specific content of responses, I'm concerned about you promising the kids too much. Your rosy picture of how things will be after separation/D is almost certainly overly optimistic. Happy family outings with the 5 of you, you and W spending nights at the other's house, etc... Maybe some of these things will happen at least once. Maybe not. You really don't know. They probably would not continue long term. Of course, I could be wrong. I'd like for you to have the idyllic post-D life you wish for your kids, and no, I'm not being sarcastic. But the fact is it is unlikely and unpredictable. If you make promises now, you risk breaking them later for your own reasons and for reasons beyond your control. And what happens if W is there in May, June, July for money reasons? Yet the kids Spring semester was wrecked waiting for the big move they were told would probably happen, but didn't.

Think about sticking with the surest things:

- Both of you will always love and care for them.
- Both of you will always be in their lives.
- The kids will always be in each other's lives.
- You don't know when the divorce will happen, but you will let them know at least a week or two ahead of time before anyone moves.


Glad the meeting went well. It seems as if now that you are creating more space, W is trying to increase intimacy (with the crying, etc...) Resist the urge to close the gap. She would have to be the one to do it for her to know she wanted it closed.

FWIW, the idea of reading a D book to S together with W and then springing the bomb on him really turned my stomach. It seems like a trick. S will be so thrilled to be with both of you enjoying a book and then BAM. Ughhh. I think loving, direct, concise would be more compassionate.

[2thepoint]

WHG - Oldtimer makes some very valid points. Keep it short and simple, make no promises you can't keep, no pretense, no script. Let it come from your heart and then listen. You may find that the kids have nothing to say, at least not at first. Give them time, check in on them often and be there for them... all of them.

[adinva]

I thought it sounded good. But then I read OT and agreed. I really have no experience or training, and fear the day I might need to tell my kids. But I'll add a thought.

I think everyone's tempted to avoid the heartbreak of seeing their kids cry, and they want to try to skip that by painting a reassuring picture and getting everyone to the point of being OK with the future. Let them cry, let them know it is OK to be sad, and their sadness isn't going to break you or hurt you. Don't put them in the role of having to appear OK in order to help you be OK. Feel the feelings with them, whatever those feelings are - mad, sad, apathetic, whatever. Meet them where they are. Answer the questions they have, not the ones you think they will have. Let them know it's the start of a conversation, not the whole conversation, so they can bring it up again later if they have more questions.

I think there must be some reason why I don't feel it's OK to be sad or mad, and not being able to recognize my feelings has turned out to have gotten me into a marriage that was probably not right from the start, it just took us 20 years and two kids for it to blow up. So I'm all for being real with feelings if you can, even if they feel painful.

[figgeroni]

like i said...

short
simple
and they are going to ask questions that you haven't scripted answers for for things you don't think are important at all but those answers really really really matter

(one of the 1st questions my son asked was if he would have to use different soap somewhere...after assuring him he wouldn't...he had no other questions and didn't want to talk anymore)

don't force them to talk about it
they have to process it their own way too
and it will come out
in crazy places
in crazy ways
(at McDonalds and Target, at supper and basketball practice)
in fits and bursts

there will be no safeword because you have to answer those questions as honestly as you can when they ask them

and if you don't know, you better be honest about it because they need the truth wrapped in a comforter right now
you need to protect them and be honest at the same time

being a parent is the most difficult gift in the world

[labug]

+1 on figgeroni

[workinghardguy]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts... I should have been clearer. Most of those points are simply what w and I have agreed to. If those questions arise those are our answers. The message we intend to start with is fairly basic... We're divorcing. The divorce will be likely be before summer. Some time next week mom is moving to the basement.

The rest is what happens if/when the questions start. I suspect the first question will be about moving. Though I get the part about summer... Perhaps simply at some point mom and kids will be moving and we will let you know at least a few weeks in advance is a better option.

As far as the book reading thing... That came from SS's therapist... I can't say I like it much either... My first reaction was the same as yours OT, but I don't trust my gut much anymore. Maybe we'll end with the book.

One other piece I thought was interesting last night... W has been adamant that she intends to file for d next week while she is on vacation. As we were getting ready to leave she said she would write up what we discussed so she could file next week. I reminded her that she shouldnt file until the QDRO is set up otherwise the whe 401k issue will get screwed up. That I'm working with my 401k administrator but it will take a little time to get it figured out. Her response... Oh that's fine, I don't really care when I file, there's no huge rush.

.... Ummm except two days ago when there was. I don't think she's changing her view but clearly her mindframe is minorly different since we ate moving towards more space.

[workinghardguy]

Journaling... a good day considering... a lot of "family time" today, isn't that ironic? We celebrated SS's birthday today, even though it's next weekend. I decided to make him a big breakfast this morning so after getting up I asked him what he wanted, then ran to the store, and then whipped up his requests. We all ate breakfast together, W included. After breakfast he opened presents and then we all went bowling.

Bowling was fun. W kept sharing looks at me when the kids did something funny, but we've always done that, except perhaps when things were really bad, dark, and cold in our house. It was hard not to high five her or give her a squeeze when she got a strike or a double or a spare. Kids had a lot of fun.

After bowling was done, W left to go hang with her friends. I called her because we had told SS we would do ice cream after bowling, and we forgot. To her credit she came. She even ended up parking close to us in the ramp and called me so that we could wait up for her. We all walked over to the ice cream shop together, had ice cream, and walked back. Then W went off to hang with her friends and help them prep their new bistro.

I took the kids to my mom's house for cake and so SS could get his presents from my mom. It was about then that tomorrow started to sink in more. It got progressively harder the rest of the day. As we left my mom's house I gave her a hug and she started crying. She's helping tomorrow by keeping S after church and bringing him to the house after we've told SS and SD, so obviously she knows. She's so heartbroken and it's hard as a son to know you've made your mom feel sad.

We got home and we watched a movie until bedtime for S and SD. It all really hit me hard then. I didn't lose it around them, but once I was out of their rooms it came on like a ton of bricks. The last goodnight before things change for them.
Somewhere in here W came home and took a nap.

Came downstairs and played XBox with SS. We're definitely getting better at Black Ops W came downstairs, grabbed her beer, and left for her newly moved in friend's house just down the street. She might be home tonight, she might not. I was surprised that last night she came home and by 1:30. I didn't expect that.

Just now SS went to bed. We put a screen protector on his Kindle together. As we were doing it SS asked me where mom was at. I told him the friend's name. His response... "again? Jeez... she spends more time with her than with us." I really didn't know how to answer that... other than to say this was actually a different friend than the one she usually sees. I mean... what do you say? He's right of course. I felt bad that I couldn't come up with something.

And so tomorrow is almost here. I know I will find a way through it and be strong for my kids. I can't stop my brain from wondering how different our house will feel tomorrow night than it felt tonight. Especially since it really was a good family day... a day with a lot of love, camaraderie, fun, and caring. Not that tomorrow can't have those things, but I have to believe the kids will also have feelings of betrayal, loss, mourning, and grief. But we're heading there come what may.

Tonight is definitely a two Tylenol PM night.