DB is like walking a tightrope over the Grand Canyon.
On the one hand the LBS must keep a sharp focus on the positive for positive results, that the love you have in your M and for your H, to be the truth.
On the other hand, one must be prepared for the free will of the WAS and what they choose or "need to do" with their life.
I've watched you struggle with both sides of the possibilities. I've watched you do the DB, decide to leave, decide to stay, be ensconced in muddy waters, be clear.....
Will he stay or will he go? It may or may not have anything to do with us. What we do and say may or may not have any impact. I think most reasonably intelligent people get that. We are scared most of the time going through this. Flying by the seat of our pants with no prior experience. Learning more about ourselves and our spouses than we ever thought possible.
I do know that every word, every action has to have intention and come from a place of sincerity. So when you say things to him that are positive and with the intention to plant a seed of a path out of the fog, is that co-dependency? Or is that a voice of reason? IMHO, you have never seemed "co-dependent" and you have never seemed "controlling." Those are words of judgment and will serve no good to you or anyone else on this board.
You appear to me to be a woman who loves her H, wants her M and is willing to take an honest and hard look at herself whilst at the same time look at the reality of what may come to pass and protect yourself.
DB is in itself behaviour modification. We are, in effect, saying and doing things to bring about a different result in action and behaviour from another. Given that, one could qualify behaviour modification as trying to "control" another. If practiced without sincere intention to improve for the good of all involved, it is in fact controlling. Therefore, our purpose and intention must come from a good place, an honest place. We must realize that this is a journey both are on. The trick is to really look at oneself, to become very humble, and to wake up ourselves and make the positive changes in us that will hopefully bring about (a wake up call) a change in the other. If we do our changes with mal intent and to only "win" our results will soon be lost.
An A is a wake up call for both to come out of the fog, to get off our arses and tend to this R and M.
Freud said that there are two important things in a healthy person: FULFILLING love and work.
I do know that nobody can grow in isolation. The purpose of R is growth. Often M is the stage for healing. All crap comes out/gets acted out in the R and M because that is where it is. All R are mirrors of ourselves.
How do we survive? By owning our own $h!t. SO I hear a lot of that on here. It just gets delivered like 2 X 4s at times. I personally don't find that helpful....even if is "right."
I think folks sometimes get confused by the piss and vineger.
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
Thanks MZ... I'm inspired by your words I'm off to get some long needed errands done, but will respond later today or tomorrow.
Abs
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
Don't thank me Abs, cuz my post wasn't to give you any advice. You can hold your own. There are many others who read our stories and the advice bestowed upon us....or the 2 X 4s.
Let me tell you an anecdotal. Recently at a X-mas party I was involved in a "lively" discussion about a bitter neighbor who refuses to be a part of our very small community. It came out that his bitterness evolved out of a request from him, to the town, to build a ramp to his house for his invalid daughter. Apparently the town refused to do so. As I listened to neighbors rail pro and con regarding his stand I could feel my pulse rise. I said some things. The next day I went to the hosts' home to apologize. However, they were amused. My HS friend's H said, "MZ, you were great. You were like a little bull dog when you said, 'I would NOT have WAITED for the town to build a ramp for my kid. If that were MY kid, I'D be out there building that friggin ramp myself!' and I thought, you go MZ!"
So, if we were at a party and someone called you a "manipulator," "co-dependent," "controlling.".....You can BET I'd say what is on my mind.
BTW, the town's people today would have built that ramp for that little girl. I would have made sure of it!
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
Piss and vinegar,... funny it's probably not the first or last time I've been associated with .. er spunk
Stranger still though, is just how easily one can go from spunk to funk in these kinds of sitchs.
H seems intent on driving me batty. One minute he's all love and cuddles, the next it's like he's floating through a maze of unknown emotions toward the OW. One minute he's being nice to her on the phone, the next minute he's telling me she's a stupid... er.. anyway..
We've had daughter for 2 sleep overs, and we'll have two more this week coming up. Whilst I'm quite enjoying the time we spend together, having a toddler when you're in your late forties, is... different to say the least. The whole maternal instinct thing... I clearly didn't think I had that in me. Turns out, I do. LOL.
On the R front: What I am acutely aware of, is how little my H understands or grasps what he's done to "us", to this marriage, to the relationship... and yes ... TO ME. It's a side of him that I really dislike to be honest. It's a side I'm not sure in the long run I'll be able to get past either. Trust rebuilding only comes from working on not making past mistakes. I'm not sure HOW climbing that hurdle will come about for us. Yes, I've read all the bloody books,... putting it into action, I'm not sure yet how we're ever going to get that path started.
Men in particular seem to want to just let it all pass. Problem is, that we as the LBS, (women) in this case... aren't going to trust UNTIL that whole thing is put to bed once and for all.
He's also still drawn to OW. His words today: I don't know why I keep getting drawn into those fights with her. My comment: You make the choice to. Until you can cut her off each and every time she strays into trying to get into relationship talks with her, and bring her curtly back on topic about your daughter... you choose to let her go on and on.
How that relates to me is: Until he can do that, while I'm ahead the game... I still feel I'm not anywhere close to being out of the woods with him. That's even with him saying the things he does to me,... including out of the blue I love yous, having discussions about buying another home together, and making sure that it's in my name to make sure my assets are protected etc etc etc.
His words talk about OUR future, with daughter. Including totally going after OW for primary custody of daughter. (Funny how so many people who know this OW say the same thing: She should have been forceably sterilized.) H's own words less than 20 minutes ago: She couldn't care less about daughter, she shoved her off with her other kids and is off to go hang out with her druggie friends.
I've got a meeting with my T this week coming,... will have to ask how much I say or don't say while my H sorts all his emotions out.
My emotions... I dunno... to early to tell where I'm going to end up. Sometimes I long for the solitude of my own place... away from the roller coaster ride.
Abbey
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
One other piece of this puzzle that keeps coming back at me like a greasy pizza after midnight...
This feeling like: If H spent even HALF the amount of time/energy working on a relationship WITH me, instead of fighting with OW (or even bothering to be nice to her for that matter)... we'd have a pretty good foot hold on where we need to start to rebuild. On one level, it feels like jealousy, ... yet, I know I'm sick and tired of not being allotted the proper priority. That's where for me, I keep coming back to. I truly question, even with the best of his intentions, if he'll ever be able to do what HE needs to do, to do the WORK he needs to do, to make US a priority again.
I'm not going to be satisfied with second best, or in the proverbial holding pattern where everything butts into the line ahead of me.
THAT is one of the biggest stone walls I keep seeing in my path. If anything I'm afraid to let myself believe I can be in a relationship with him at this point... simply because of this issue.
Strange. Abbey
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
Been there! Just hang in ....it keeps changing form as you progress along.
Had a funny intuitive hit as I was reading your last post. That hit was that ow will easily give this daughter up over time....loser, druggie type she is, I've seen it happen in our community over and over again. Trend seems to be the borderline who hooks up with an unavailable man and have his baby....haven't seen it work out. I work in a very depressed community. Again, it's only an "intuitive" hit.
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
Not so strange. You know that the opposite of love is not anger, but indifference. As long as he's so involved with being mad at her, or getting sucked into her drama, you know he's still feeling emotional attachment to her. And the fact that she's a total slutty whack job has to make you question his judgment at this point!
I mean - it would be one thing to make a brief mistake with a woman like this, then finally come to his senses and realize what she really is. But to KNOW what she is and still allow himself to get sucked into this? You're right, it's really disrespectful to your relationship with him.
