Our story

[25yearsmlc]

Admittedly, contacting her on her sister's wedding day was a calculated risk. I realized it could come off as pursuing. It MAY have been a poor choice, though it didn't seem to have gone over too poorly.

see notes below


As to the other aspects busto and 25mlc wrote about, I'd like to sincerely thank you both. It was actually very eye-opening - things I didn't realize I was doing even as I wrote that post last night.

"Correcting" is not a word that had been used at all, but now that you've brought it up, and pointed out where I was doing it, I can tie it into a trait she had mentioned on one of our two joint visits to counseling and get a better idea of what she had actually meant.

Believe it or not, when she had mentioned being condescending or disrespectful in counseling, while I didn't dispute it at all (even I at the time would have realized how damaging that would be in terms of invalidating her feelings), I legitimately was unaware of ever doing it at the time and was unable to recall an example.

then work on this^^^ or you won't fix it. It's demeaning to correct, give input when all the woman expressed were HER Perceptions of reactions to something which is NOT a "correctable event"...
ask if you must-if it's not clear to you, ASK if they are inviting your feedback.
If they say no, do NOT take it personally. It means they just wanted to share something with you.
But correcting, or adding in your "important additional" info undermines as well and over time it really damages others feelings for you.

I debated in college & have argued in court countless cases. it does NOT help often in marriages b/c Ilke to know the verdict! "DId I win??""

But marriages are not those kinds of trials. We're lookng at conflict resolution, not win/lose. We want consensus building, not a victor.


I distinctly recall asking her, in front of the counselor, to please help me identify when I'm doing it. She was pretty incredulous that I was so totally aware of doing it, and only a couple times after pointed it out so I kind of struggled through (unsuccessfully obviously) trying to pinpoint it, and then change it, on my own.

It was only in reading Michele's books over the past month and reading other people's stories here that I could see similar characteristics, and begin to get a GENERAL idea of what I had been doing. But it's only now that you two have taken the time to point to specific things and show how and why they're perceived the way they are that I'm getting a much better understanding.

It's also MILDLY intimidating, as I'm beginning to think that just being more sensitive to the time, place and tone of my interactions with people (not just my wife) isn't going to be enough if any potential future reconciliation is going to work. I'm really beginning to think I'm going to have to completely reinvent how I talk and listen to people.

I agree totally with that statement^^.

the successful couples who reconcile here, do so after the LBSer changes a lot...not the WAS, the LBSer -for the longest time, and it's humbling as heck...

but the brave ones who make the journey inward, find that the inward journey is where the real growth is...

NEXT btw,
Your texts on the wedding day were way off base. You don't see that though.

That's b/c your sister in law had the graciousness/Grace of her own happiness that day, which she passed on to you.

Read NOTHING into her rushed message given in a heartfelt moment, on a day she ought to have spent only on HER pending marriage, and not the demise of yours... see anything a tad "off" or even a little selfish about that?

So Your w could hardly do less than the bride, since it was she who uninvited you.

IMO sending your w anything that day was pursuit & a manipulative "reminder" of YOU....YOU not being there and reminding her more than once that you wre not there, and making it about you --under the guise of wishing your w a happy day with repetitive unsubstantial comments that didn't ring true anyhow/ You wanted her to really enjoy her day and NOT NOTICE your absence...really? (She couldn't miss you b/c you kept texting her showing her how you were NOT GAL and making it clear you wanted to be there with her)


I think it bugged the heck out of you that you got delisted before papers were even filed.

BTW when my brother invited me and our family to his wedding during our crisis, I asked h if he'd be comfortable going. He was so out of it he felt sure he would be totaly fine and I think he was fine.

I also think he loves most of my family and realized what ELSE he'd lose if we split.

It never hurts to have a family let you keep marital problems between you two and NOT get "allies/enemies"...it never hurts b/c it makes it easier for you to

Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth....don't make it harder for your w to return than it already will be....

Isn't keeping the road home, paved and smooth a goal of yours?
IF SO, let it show.

I felt like your texts were aimed (mainly) at invading her thoughts that day...it's a control thing pure and simple.

The text to the sil MIGHT be seen as a gesture of kindness, but ON the wedding day itself???!! NAh... It would be distracting to me as a bride I'd be kind but it would later bother me and seem self centered of you even if all you said was "Bet you look beautiful".

You could have sent it the day before, after, etc.

I would want my day to be about MY soon to be successful marriage and my betrothed. My family would have asked if I wanted them to block your calls if it'd been me and mine. They were gracious to you instead and the awkwardness to avoid was for the bride as well as your w. Maybe even more so. We do not know.

Just food for thought...

The next time the topic comes up, the plan is to ask (and, most importantly, ONLY ask) how she came up with her proposed settlement. If I say anything more than "Ok, thanks for explaining it to me" it will be to relay it back to make sure I understood it - and then be done. I think it will be good practice for me to JUST listen, accept and validate as opposed to DISCUSSING.

I think you both need to seek out a l's opinion for general info. If she has, then she's got some wildly different info than you have.


as a L myself, I sought out counsel when my h and I sep b/c I could never be objective enough to represent myself, and it's not my area of expertise.

But the info I got was very favorable to me. My L was a specialist from a large firm, which I recommend, and I can read the law anyhow.

But she gave me caselaw b/c there was one argument I wanted to make that she did not believe would work. So I read what she has on it and she agreed to push for it IF h got wacky. But honestly in a community property state, its a matter of what is marital property and what's not, plus add in any kid factors.

So when my h mentioned something HE believed about the law, which I KNEW was way way off, I did not correct him. I didn't want to.

I wanted someone on "his team" to tell him so he could hear from his own counsel what he'd really face and to warn him off this road.

So
I suggested with genuine calm confidence that HE RETAIN COUNSEL at least to verify what he believed or heard. Besides, on the off chance my L was wrong, it'd be good to know sooner rather than later.

I certainly was not going to be the one to rain on his parade and say "See? I TOLD YOU SO!!

I WIN!!!"

Let a lawyer hired (even if just for a few hours), tell her the real deal. IF it's a community property state it's not complicated to explain and IF things were kept separate then that's that. It's either marital property to be split or it's separate property that remains that way.

THEN let the L give her the bad news.

NEWSFLASH THIS WEEK A WOMAN FOUND OUT SHE'S A BIGAMIST b/c her
lawyer from her first divorce, the "woman who wasn't really a L" SAVED her and her ex h money by filing the whole thing for 500$...

only she did NOT file and was not a lawyer and so when the woman walked down the aisle for her second wedding, she got the bad news that she was still married to her first h, AND had not "saved" a dime but had created heartache.

don't be pennywise and pound foolish.

In a short m in a community property state it OUGHT to be easy but I don't know if you are rich or famous or vulnerable to bad PR threats...

otherwise, just let the Ls do the dirty work and avoid the money/legal talks as much as possible.

You sound like you won't be able to do that b/c the traits you seem to send out to us are surprises to you so I don't know that you can change enough or fast enough.

But I wish you luck.


I have often heard outrageously unrealistic things uttered in anger and believe the best medicine is them getting the facts

but if you have not noticed by now then here's a newsflash

THE "FACTS OF LIFE" CANNOT COME FROM YOU even if you are "right".

B/c being right isn't important, being happy & staying married, if possible, IS.

Hope this stuff helps you.