H wanted to take me and his mom out for breakfast before we had to take her to the airport (she traveled back with him so he wouldn't have to deal with the boys alone in the car for 13 hours.... I was kinda hoping that he would have suffered a little and the harsh reality of his decision would start to sink in, oh-well.) At breakfast he was nice, friendly and initiated a few conversations directly with me. I'm talking with him thinking: "this is the same man who sat with me last night and so confident in his choice to leave me... now he's my 'friend'?? Doesn't he know how hard it is to just sit here with him and not bawl my eyes out?!" It's amazing to me how the WAS can flip-flop so easily and not seem to have a care of the path of destruction they just left. OMG!! LIGHTBULB!! as I was just typing that last sentence^^^, it hit me: Cr@p..... this must have been how my H felt when I would go off so cruelly one minute and then act as if nothing happened the next- with no apologies. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. That must have been awful for him to go through on a regular basis. My C has helped me to discover why/how I was able to emotionally detach myself from him when we would get into fights. I came to realize that I would talk to him as if he was a perfect stranger that I didn't care about- not the man I love and should have chosen my words carefully so as not to destroy his ego. THAT has been one of my major changes through all of this. I started to change it a while before he dropped the bomb, but I wasn't good at it. Now I've learned how to be conscience in a discussion and things always go much smoother- in fact, he's usually the one to loose his temper first and I stay calm which brings him back down. (the tables have turned)
So this is funny: H unloaded his truck from their trip and left it all in the family room. He casually mentioned: "so, as you're unpacking the stuff from the trip, keep and eye out for [something]" My brain stopped listening when he said *you're*, implying that he expected *me* to unpack the sh!t from *his* trip! This was funny to me on so many levels... first off, I did pack up the boys things for him (because I didn't want my boys to be without anything they might possibly need for a week and my H would forget something, I'm sure) so I guess I gave him the impression that I would help again at the end of the trip. Maybe that was my fault. Second, The simple fact that he *expects* that I will do this (because it's what I've always done) goes to the fact that he *likes* having a W to help. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to be missed only for doing chores, BUT he is going to have a rude awakening when he's on his own and doesn't have dinner ready for him when he gets home and is 'starving!!' the second he walks in the door; when he doesn't have clean clothes magically folded and ready for him; the fridge and pantry are magically full of food; when he comes home to an empty house and no one to talk to; and when he decides to go on a trip and I'm not there to plan/pack/unpack for him. These luxuries are part of the whole package of having a W.... and I think that he hasn't realized the *whole* package he's walking away from
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
Hey Purg, sometimes I wonder if we were related in a past life
OMG!! LIGHTBULB!! as I was just typing that last sentence^^^, it hit me: Cr@p..... this must have been how my H felt when I would go off so cruelly one minute and then act as if nothing happened the next- with no apologies. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. That must have been awful for him to go through on a regular basis.
I have had that exact same realization! My W now uses the same short irritated tone of voice that I used to use with her and now I totally get how she felt and how hurtful it would be to deal with that for 9 years. Now I understand why this is such a long process. I don't like it, but I understand it. There is a great deal of healing that needs to take place for our spouses and we need to rebuild trust with them.
"so, as you're unpacking the stuff from the trip, keep and eye out for [something]" My brain stopped listening when he said *you're*, implying that he expected *me* to unpack the sh!t from *his* trip! This was funny to me on so many levels...
LOL!!! I'm not laughing at the situation. I am laughing at your thought process. I would have been thinking the same thing, but I probably would have just left all the crap there (I need to work on not being passive aggressive)
I agree with you that your H is going to have a rude awakening when he is on his own. Like you said before this seperation will give your H time to process through his anger and to realize what he would be giving up if he moved on with a D.
Your strength, wisdom and compassion always amazes me. Hang in there you are doing a great job ((( )))
M:(f) 35 W: 45 3 dogs and 2 cats T: 9 years 9/30/11 I love you, but I'm not in love with you OW confirmed 12/23/11
"Second, The simple fact that he *expects* that I will do this (because it's what I've always done) goes to the fact that he *likes* having a W to help. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to be missed only for doing chores, BUT he is going to have a rude awakening when he's on his own and doesn't have dinner ready for him when he gets home and is 'starving!!' the second he walks in the door; when he doesn't have clean clothes magically folded and ready for him; the fridge and pantry are magically full of food; when he comes home to an empty house and no one to talk to; and when he decides to go on a trip and I'm not there to plan/pack/unpack for him. These luxuries are part of the whole package of having a W.... and I think that he hasn't realized the *whole* package he's walking away from"
I totally relate to this. I think that separation is the only for some people to see that its a whole package. Yes - you didnt act nicely & you need to change that but you were expressing your love for him & the family in other ways.
Hang in there, you are doing awesome
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
first off, I did pack up the boys things for him (because I didn't want my boys to be without anything they might possibly need for a week and my H would forget something, I'm sure)
Why did you really do this? What would the worst outcome be if you didn't pack for the boys?
I used to do this exact thing and thought it made me invaluable to the family. I now realize my poor judgment.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Sun & Bklyn, thanks for coming by to visit me today- I wish I had known you were coming, I would have made some tea and cookies
I've actually left all the trip stuff right where he put it, kinda waiting to see if he puts things away or mentions it again to me... I don't want to immediately put things away because then I"m just falling into his expectations of me.
Very interesting events happened today... Driving home from the airport (dropping him mom off off) H expresses his frustration with me about the plans for S5 b-day party. Nothing worth going into details about... but it led to me expressing how I feel that he has been angry/frustrated with me since he got back and it's affecting every interaction we've been having (I was calm and matter-of-fact.) H got defensive: "I don't see how you could feel like that, I have only been home 2 days and I haven't even been around you that much." (kinda my point- he avoided me like the plague) Anyways... conversation went on and I pointed out some examples of him being rude and/or snippy with me and even made a point of showing him that he was doing to me what I used to do to him that he hated... I KNOW that this goes against DB, but I just needed to get that off my chest. **It's interesting how we have changed roles in discussions. It's almost as if he's punishing me and doing it just to get back at me- because I know this is not his authentic self** {side note} I've read on several forums, that the WAS goes through a phase of anger towards the LBS. Partly because they are disappointed that it took walking away for the changes to take place (but the silver lining to that is that they have *noticed* the changes in order to get mad) and the other part is an ager/frustration because things are going the way they planned. It's had for me to judge which one my H is falling into-or if he is genuinely pi$$ed at me for something....any ideas?? Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.... We didn't talk for the rest of the evening until he came home from the gym at 8 (I should note that he has come home from the gym at precisely 8pm for the last year, so I guess this is a positive given our current sitch- he's not going out to a bar or worse.) I had gotten him his favorite drink from the corner store and left it with a note in the fridge. (Now I might be criticized for this part, but it's a 180 for me) The note said: 'I need to work on my timing, sorry about earlier. I know you are frustrated with a lot at work right now and I shouldn't have added to it." Can you guess what happened next??? Wait for it.... He said "thanks for the [drink] babe." Then he walked over to the couch and sat beside me and GAVE ME A HUG!!! God could have taken me then and I would have died a happy woman (of course I'm exaggerating) but it was so amazing that he reached out to me as a gesture of thanks (btw, his love language is physical touch- so i KNOW that his action was a big step!) But that's not all folks.... I had rented a movie (Warrior because I really wanted to see it, but I also knew that it would peak H's interest) I had already started it when he got home, but it was only 15 minutes into it. He asked me what it was about and said that he wasn't in the mood for getting pulled into a movie- so his plan was to play on his computer then go to bed. That statement was made at 7:45, flash forward to 10pm and where is H?? Next to me (well, other end of the couch) watching the entire movie!! I am trying really hard not to get hopes up or too excited (too late I think!!) but I am taking these small actions as a win, especially after he was so angry with me this afternoon.
Questions: Has anyone experienced this with their WAS? They are so angry with you, with no apparent reason. I'm trying not to think that it's me and just brush it off because he's going through his own demons right now... but then he shows affection towards me when I apologize to him (like I said, me acknowledging/apologizing is a complete 180 for me. I used to hold a grudge until he apologized first... that makes me sick to my stomach because I can't ever imagine doing that now.)
A little excited, a little confused.... but mostly giddy because I got a hug!!!!
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
Another Journal, After yesterday's high ^^^^^, I've hit another low. I actually went out to my car tonight and bawled my eyes out... There's no where in the house that H or the boys won't hear me cry. I've even tried going into the shower, hoping the water noise would drown me out- but H said he could hear me downstairs through the ceiling, apparently the acoustics are good and the floor is thin.
My second prediction for after the holiday break has come true. H is moving out, not sure when- but he is clear that he will soon. Here how the conversation went: (he had brought up the separation papers so we were talking about custody arrangements) H:... I guess when I move into [married friend's house] we can test out our custody arrangements, see how it really works for us. M: you're still planning on doing that? H: Uhhhh, yeah. Why would't I? When did I ever say I wasn't? (he was getting frustrated at this point) M: our last conversation about it, 2 weeks ago, was that it was an option you were considering. I never got a definitive answer from you. H: well, I took that conversation to mean that *was* my decision. I mean why wouldn't I want to move out?? M: I can give you two reasons. They are in the back seat of your car right now and they won't see you for over a year. But that's all I will say about it right now. (I was getting choked up and mad/upset and didn't want to loose it on the phone) H: [nothing in response to my statement] Well, I'm going over there this weekend to check it out and see what kind of room I will have. M: Ok. (I wanted to scream and cry and convince him that he's being selfish and not thinking about the boys!) H: That's another thing we should talk about: when are we going to tell S5? M: I really don't think we need to tell him before you leave for deployment. I mean, if you tell him the D word and then you leave for a year, he will associate D with 'my daddy goes away and I never see him'. I think that would be too traumatic. The deployment is hard enough for him to get his brain around, let's do one at a time. Tell him D when you get back. H: Well, I disagree. I think there's enough time before I leave for him to not associate the two.(still anger in his voice) M: I'm not ready to have this conversation, especially with the kids in the car with you. Can we please talk about it later? H: Fine.
My emotions were all over the place. I'm angry that he's only thinking about his needs right now, nothing about what's best for the kids. I wish someone could get him to come around and see that staying in the house before a year away is best for the boys... but I am not the one to tell him. I don't want to 'convince' him to stay because he would only resent me and there would be no hope for us. Is there a compromise? Maybe he moves out for a few months, but agrees to come back for a few months before he leaves? Probably not.
When we've talked about our Sep papers, H has said that he doesn't like that our custody arrangements only have him seeing the boys 6 days out of 14 days (every other weekend including fri. plus 1 day each week, mind you- he wrote this). But then he counters his own statement by saying that his work schedule won't allow him to be the primary, I would still have to watch the boys everyday until 6 pm... so it doesn't make sense for him to be primary. H quote: "I don't like this, I want to see my boys everyday." My smart@ss wants to say: "you have that ability. Stop this separation. Stay in the house. You can't leave the M and still get everything you want!" But of course.... I 180 and don't pressure or attack, I just listen.
These little statements and his opposite-from-normal reactions to things make me think this is really a MLC. I know that's he been frustrated with his job for the last 2 years (unappreciated, un-motivating boss, creativity is not encouraged) and he's been un happy in our M.... I think I'm not entirely the problem, I'm just the easiest target. He can't change anything at work, so the only thing he can change is me. Even though I can logically come to this concept- It f-ing suxx!!!!! Why does he think he can only ever be 'happy' if he's not with me?!?! (I put happy in quotations, because I don't think he really knows what the word means for him)
His job is going to change, he will have new challenges (he is an awesome leader and problem solver, so he LOVES challenges) and a new environment... so I can only assume that he will start to feel better about himself (even though it will be in a desert). So where does that leave me?? I'm left alone here, with two kids who will miss their dad everyday, my H will miss them too; no-one to help me comfort them, and no-one missing me.
I'm having a pity party for a minute.... wanna come?
I know in my head- that I need to go with the flow and sign the papers. I also know that I have a strong side in the decision as to when we tell S5... I don't want to be a doormat, but I don't know how to get him to really listen to me without his anger/frustration response, which seems to be the go-to right now. It's as if anything that I say that challenges his decisions or ideas, is immediately labeled 'arguing', 'you're frustrating me'... and he doesn't ever address the actual issue.
Suggestions? Is this 'normal'? Are his behaviors typical of a MLC? Do you think this is a MLC?
He's made me feel like I'm the entire problem with his unhappiness and he can only ever be happy again without me in his life.
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
purg.. you don't need to have your own pity party.. just join me at mine! plenty of room.
"My emotions were all over the place. I'm angry that he's only thinking about his needs right now, nothing about what's best for the kids. I wish someone could get him to come around and see that staying in the house before a year away is best for the boys... but I am not the one to tell him. I don't want to 'convince' him to stay because he would only resent me and there would be no hope for us. Is there a compromise? Maybe he moves out for a few months, but agrees to come back for a few months before he leaves? Probably not."
i know this is so difficult for you and i'm sad you have to hurt so much (it actually makes me teary because i know that same hurt!). in his mind, there are no compromises. and most likely, if you were to try to "convince" him, he would do the opposite just to negate you.
"Why does he think he can only ever be 'happy' if he's not with me?!?! (I put happy in quotations, because I don't think he really knows what the word means for him)"
i think you're right. and since they can't seem to figure it out.. it must be us. it's amazing how they are able to convince themselves of this.
i'm so sorry i don't have the right thing to say. i can only share with you what i've been through. i am devastated to be in the position i'm in. that my perfect H could be such an a*$! every mon when my H leaves, i am sad to see him go.. but there is also a huge sigh of relief. because he's not here, i am not obsessing over his every move and trying to figure out what he's thinking. yes there are moments i cry from sadness but, it's easier to focus on the kids and myself and try to figure out what i need and how i'm going to change myself for the better.
i'm not trying to make you feel better. just a gentle reminder that you can not control what H does or say.. you can only control how you react and what you will do for yourself. something i need to remind myself all the time!
Me:38.. H:33. Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3 M:8.. together for 11. Bomb dropped:10/17/11 Separated:11/07/11
I don't have any idea if this is MLC but I do know that before deployment, stuff comes crushing/crashing down for them. They feel a rush to 'complete' everything before they leave, I guess in the back of their minds, in case they don't come back.
This is SUCH a hard time to be going through pre-deployment stress/possible separation stress.
I'm really sorry you're going through all this at the same time (health troubles too).
He is being SUPER selfish right now, but LOTS of men do before deployment, so I am not all that shocked.
Then I find that they get in theatre and for the first part are really missing their lives back home and their families.
I agree with PP who say that the deployment might be a good thing for for you guys. It will def make or break you.
But I really wish he would just hold off on causing any kind of rupture now. Even if it's just 'pretend'. it would be a lot easier on those kids if daddy leaves for a year FROM HOME. Then after that year, THEN decide about separating. I wish he could give himself that distance and mental and physical break from you before making any pre-deployment-fueled decisions.
Just made an appointment to speak with a lawyer next week. I feel sick to my stomach.
I don't want to do this. I don't want to discuss the details of when H will see the kids.
Our anniversary is this Sunday... and he's going to his friend's house to check out the possible space he moving into. Very clear message: that day means nothing to him and he doesn't consider my feelings anymore.
I'm really sad right now. I wish he could see that all the efforts and energy he putting into finding a lawyer, new place, creating papers... would be so much more valuable to put towards our R. The fact that we have a life, history and kids should be enough for him to want to exhaust all possible efforts for us, but I'm reminded daily that his focus is on him and that he wants "out".
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
You have all the rights to feel sad. You'll be starting a new chapter in your book and the uncertainty of it is painful. I know how you feel. Though my H is still in the talking stages of moving out, he is none the less thinking about it and told me that he's been looking for apartments,etc.
I hate it when people say that you need to give your H a chance to miss you, that being away from each other will be good. My fear is that what if he doesn't? At the same time, if he doesn't, then why would you want to be with that person? I struggle with these thoughts all the time.
Keep your chin up and continue DB'ing. Keep thinking about yourself and your children. Even though having kids involved makes things so much more harder, at the same time we should be grateful for the love and affection that we do receive from our kids and can give it back. Even if my H won't hug me, I love getting hugs from my S. So invest in good quality time with your kids (I'm sure you're already doing this) and do good things for yourself, because that's the most important thing you can do right now.
