Rick said: I think she does want me to wait based on her reactions to anything that sends the message that I am not going to. This is difficult for me because I do not know the outcome of this, but I've made this choice for her and us.
25 said: That's risky for HER and I commend her. She's Not trying to have her cake and eat it too, or playing games with you.
Rick said: I agree. We both have done a lot of soul searching throughout this sitch. Lately these discussions between us have just popped up innocently and we get to talking about where we both were.... either lost, confused, unhappy/fearful, or needed to evolve/improve. Without this sitch/bomb ever happening we never would have had discussions like this. It would have been defensiveness, lack of comunication, frustration, talking in circles, etc. There's a new element of trust between us as we discuss the hard issues and even if we aren't sure what the other is saying at first, we have the newfound ability to have the patience to talk it through. _______________________________________________________________ Rick said: I don't think she wants out of the marriage even if she isn't saying that or comitting to anything, but her actions seem to be indicating that all she wants is time here. I say that because its come up a number of times and I've said and meant it that if she wants out, go ahead and say so.
25 said: I hope you won't be saying that anymore...it's NOT necessary (we're in America and she does not think she needs your permission. The comment can literally do you no good. )
Rick said: The mutual threats to leave or suggestions that we should split are the past, early bomb days. Right, she does not need my permission to leave the M. In those days it was so antagonistic, so horrifyingly scary to get our minds around it that it seemed that a split was very real. It's actually hard to go back to those moments with clarity but yes, in ther end, it's her choice to stay or not. I was so freaked out at the time. I had always thought of myself as tough, self-reliant, evolved and had some real background to believe that but when the bomb dropped I made so many mistakes. More importantly I made so many relationship mistakes before the bomb. What a friggin wake-up call but I have ny W to thank for that. ________________________________________________________ 25 said: I know your cousin is your cousin, and both he and your w deny an affair. But I'm just saying, isn't it odd that there can be such a different viewpoint of a situation?
Rick said: I'm not sure I'm following your question. The reasons I was sure there was an affair (as opposed to just a friendship) was how things fell into my awareness (situations I've psoted before), and added up they really pointed to an A. My W just said the other day that if she had shared what was going on with me all along it probably would not have been an issue or look like an A. I agreed that that would have been the case but said that given where she was at the time and given where I was at the time I can see how she went the route she did. She agreed.
As for your BFF story, it's not exactly the same. I still feel it was scummy of him not to be up front about it. He's live in another state for years so its not like he saw this M where the H was mistreating the W (like your friend's story). Our M issues were private. Most people who saw us, saw a strong M. What I'm saying is the OM in this case did not have this body of evidence of a mistreated woman. If he just took her word and decided to be sneaky, to me that's reprehensible. Given that he knew there was M trouble I just don't accept that he never made any contact whatsoever. And if its just friendship then why the sneakiness? Even if it was my W's idea to be clandestine I think he should have reached out. Look, I can accept that I may have not been the man my wife wanted and walked away, and that someone else may be a better match for her. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I just can't imagine myself doing this to a family member if the roles were reversed. And when they first were contacting I really thought that it was nice. I find out about all of the stuff the made it look like an A after the fact. ____________________________________________________________ Rick said: Look, I really don't know the future here. I love her and am willing to do my part with no guaranty. I do see her slowly, and I mean slowly thawing, and spending more time with me than we did before the bomb. But, I have to handle this so well and don't blow it. If I start any R talk, or pressure her I will blow this. I let her talk about it when she wants. I keep it all light and fun. I help her out with whatever she needs. As long as she can control her pace through this, and my silence is present I think she will at least have a world in which she can go though her therapy, sort out her issues, find out who she is, where she fits in in the world, and figure out how she will live in our M.
25 said: and where is the role of YOUR growth in all this? Sorry if I missed it-it's a long post. What will YOU be doing to improve as her partner while she grows as a woman?
I will be, for the rest of my life, having the B..lls to be brutally honest with myself, be open to growth, listen better and empathise, think in terms of giving instead of thinking in terms of how everything affects me, not being afraid that others can be different and make different choices, that my logic is not the end all be all, to let go of fear based decisions and actions, to give her all the support she needs ________________________________________________________ 25 said: But newsflash: there never were any guarantees! However, the myth that there were, MIGHT have lead you to taking her for granted...so maybe it's better that we KNOW there are never guarantees...
this is called faith, and
doing what is right B/C IT'S RIGHT and Not because you'll get your reward here on earth...
SEE ABOVE NOTE FROM WAW...IN HER EYES (which is all that matters now)
she is not the one who threw it in the crapper...by a long shot. Have you read this whole thread start to finish?
Rick said: looking back I did believe in the guaranty and yes, it definitely affected how I acted towards her. Left untreated I would never have seen the way I was or improved beyond it. Yeah, I should have seen (and now do) that every day we have with our loved ones is a gift that should be cherished and treated so.
No I haven't read this whole thread and I will. Just the part you posted is an eye opener. I rerally need to read more from the perspective of WAS's. ______________________________________________________________ Rick said: I really could not imagine how much it would sukk if this doesn't work out.
25 said: Well you NEED to imagine it. Yes...that's what I said.
Only when I imagined life without my h, but with me being happy
was I able to make the changes I wanted in my life and in me - ANYHOW....so flesh out the images of what you'd be doing without her. If she passed away and enough time had passed
what would your life look like assuming it's a healthy happy life? You're not shriveling up in the fetal position, right?
Are you going back to school or taking a class or joining a new church or taking Spanish or travelling or what? And with whom? (not OWs, but who else?)
and create as much of THAT life now, as possible. It's called GAL and it makes you happier and healthier and more likely to reconcile...and yet, if you don't, you're a lot farther down the road of recovery than you would be otherwise.
It's a win win....hope you get this. Make sense?
Rick said: Yes, I am well along the path to being fulfilled with my life in the absence of my W. Once I got over the initial horror of the bomb, I really reflected on what I am doing with my allotted time on earth...is it fulfilling...is it my highest and best reason for being here? I am beginning to feel real momentum in my life choices. If anything the thought of not being with my W has afforded me the opportunity to see the value in things that are purely an expression of me. My time is never empty or wasted. _____________________________________________________________ 25 said: the more you understand HER point of view
the better your chances for real lasting change and
the better the chances of her letting you back into her heart.
Rick said: Yes, I have gotten to the point where I can understand her points about how she felt with me, and understand her own personal issues she's dealing with.
I really do see her thawing and in doing so we have had the opportunity to have great discussions and understanding. It's so refeshing to do this without any of the old miscommunication.
Lately, it seems like when we first met in that we plan to do stuff and it is it so much fun.
Last night she was telling me that she has had a lifelong fear of trying new things, of feeling selfish when doing so, of wanting to be fulfilled but not sure how or where to begin. She spoke about how she never really had a time for herself or to self-discover. She had bher traumatic childhood days, then her lost teen years, then gave herself over 100% to motherhood, so she really never stopped the train to figure her sfl out, to resolve her demons, to take control of her own life.
In the end we agreed that she now has that opportunity. She's young, healthy, smart, makes good money, and the kids have gotten older and less demanding of her time. We agreed that although she never had this opportunity, I did when I was in my early years, so now its her turn. I don't need to work around the clock like I did in the early days so I offered to take on a lot of the duties she always did and she will teach me in some of the things I never did. That will free her up to take the time and explore. We spoke about our travel plans and some of the things she wants to do by herself to prove something to herself. She spoke a lot about her fears that have prevented this in the past and felt good that she could express these to me, and is taking steps da to day to progress. All in all a great discussion.
In the meantime I will keep focusing on being a better person, never assuming any guaranty, being a giver, and taking this day by day.
