WAW told me she idoesn't want to be married.

[25yearsmlc]

I didn't put much thought into the gift for my W cause I didn't want to go overboard. [/b]

because? B/C you thought it would come off as pursuit? ----However I don't know how to shop small, lets say and I had to do that for the first time.

so when times are good, you are good at gift giving...are there other things you are good at when times are good. Yea I am a decent cook, great father and I used to be able to listen and talk with her for hours. Before all this happened.


THe rest of my question was what else changes for you when things are NOT going well...and you ignored it.


I am still getting used to this. Why should I get her something that I know she will look nice in and I can't appreciate how she looks in it.

b/c the gift would be for HER, not you...b/c it's an act of love, that's why



I went for something that seemed the kids would like to give her.

Witz you have been seeing a T for sometime now...what is HIS diagnosis? Sitch Depression and moving on. Working on this.

Does the T seem to help you? At times but I have to admit I am debating about looking for a new one.

What would your w say about it? She would tell me to look for a new one. But try new things first with him.

If you don't mind my asking, seems you have some underlying issues having nothing to do with your w BUT that have probably affected her.Yea I have a lot of issues against my family at the moment. I took there belief. By working for the family it benefits the whole family.


this^^^ VERY vague and mysterious. And it is contradictory. If you don't want their beliefs, drop them. Their beliefs apparently don't serve you or work for your life. THey are not your beliefs. And it clearly did NOT benefit your m or family.

As adults at some point we can no longer blame our parents. There has to be a "Statute of Limitations" beyond which we cannot hold them responsible for our choices. We choose what is in our lives and we create it. That's right, we create it.

No one else does...til you believe that, you'll be like a piece of furniture with someone else placing you and using you...but you could be a man who is in charge of HIS life and no one else's, IF he'll but take charge of it.


I should never have lumped my W and kids into this whole family. They are first and nothing else. Also against myself for not having the balls to ask for additional money back when we needed it.


What can you change about that ^^^ Now? Do it...what is stopping you?

oh, it's going to be uncomfortable? ALL your options now are uncomfortable...so keep it simple and do the right thing and let the cards fall where they fall.


Can you tell me some more about YOU and YOUR 180s? Past two weeks I have been just doing not asking. I was going to ask instead I am just doing now.


that is Not specific. Do you understand what I am asking?

You still focus on HER and her reaction to whatever you do or say.

What do you bring to the table? Do you have passions or hobbies or friends?


not just mistakes you'll avoid...b/c for the life of me I just still feel like you are skimming the surface of your role in this.


My role in this is I screwed up

how???? what was the screw up?

and didn't talk with the one person that I should have been able to talk with.

meaning what? You backstabbed her or deceived or what? The more vague you are the harder it is to help you AND the harder it is for you to specifically change your behaviors...


I should have told her I didn't like what she was doing when I was at work. I should have spoken to her about work I let her and my kids down.

You are still missing the point...you are still making this about what SHE did wrong and

your "mistake" was not pointing it out more or sooner?? Really???

Wow that's NOT insightful of you. Be brave. Dig deeper...soon!




or at least what you post here. And yet you are quick to feel and express anger at her, often. Def Mechanism


well of course it's a defense mechanism...what are YOU going to do about it? How will you change your behavior? This is a big deal that requires thought and action and change....at your end.

I don't sense a profound remorse in you for your role in getting here, yet your other comments suggest you have been less than an ideal h. The past two years I have been just floating on by Letting her take control. Unlike in the past when I was helping all the time and making decisions.

is that passive aggressive, just passive/lazy or selfish or being pathologically conflict avoidant? ALL of those options need to change whichever one it is or combination....

I'm sorry to say this but the success stories here are not frequent BUT They do outnumber the success stories of couples in trouble who do NOT DB b/c they stay in their old patterns

and rehash the past, never letting it go AND never learning from it.


I am and have learned from my past. I just want her to be the one that I share them with. If it is someone else then it will be her loss. Which is not what I want. She deserves better and she deserves me but only she can make this decision.

she cannot make this decision without seeing change in YOUR BEHAVIOR..

why should she if her needs will remain unmet?


But the success stories here, always include the LBSer changing themselves...

taking a brave DEEP look inside...and facing some things that are tough to face [i]but doing it anyhow...

and changing THEMSELVES.


I am changing myself becoming stronger and more assertive which I was not in the past. I have seen changes and can tell there is a difference in me. I am speaking out more instead of cowering in the corner.
[b]

sounds good IF being too passive and weak was really your problem. What would SHE say your flaws or issues are? Think about that.....a lot....


whenever you concede a flaw you follow it with a justification AND OR an attack or snide remark for your w.

So I sincerely do hope you'll take that mirror and stare awhile...its a def mech again i know i have to break. i was always the joker and thats how i would battle.

I hope I answered some of your questions mmore sincere. Thank you again

Jokes are great when they diffuse tension and comfort.

but when they are cruel comments under the guise of "just kidding" then they are simply cruel but delivered in a cowardly way...I've done it myself so I recognize it's temptation.

Did you read the WAW's letter to Denver? I thought I posted it to you before and apologize if I'm repeating myself but

here it is...from a WAW to Denver....see if ANY of it could be written by your wife...(some won't apply but....s o m e w i l l.....

FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell."

Step 2 - CHANGE YOU...and worry about her reactions and changes LATER

__________


good luck witz