Putting it back together, but SSM issues linger

[Accuray]

Thanks everyone! Painful that I've been away and not able to respond to all the great feedback I've been getting here. I went on a family vacation. Overall it went very well, W and I had some ups and downs and unfortunately it didn't end on a great note.

Yesterday morning we woke up and I gave W a hug in bed, we tend to do that every morning. After a few minutes W said "do you mind if I read my book now?" Since we had nothing to do all day where we were, I figured we both had all day to read or lay around or do whatever we wanted, so I was a bit taken aback by the fact that W felt the need to start reading right then. Now the other side of that is that I'm acting crazy. So she wants to read her book and she's done cuddling, big deal! I see that side of it too. In any case, I didn't say anything at the time but W felt I was a bit "off" for the rest of the day. Last night, she was very nice to me, we had a good talk and ML.

Woke up this morning and she let me have it. Adversarial attitude as soon as I woke up. Asked me what was going on yesterday morning. I told her, admitted I was acting crazy and apologized. She didn't respond at all, but was clearly stewing. I asked her to say what she was thinking and she said "no, it won't help, you won't like it."

Now part of our piecing was to make new vows to each other -- one of them was to be open and honest, and not to withhold when we are feeling upset. Either "out with it", or let the other person know when you will be ready to share. W tried to re-write that agreement on the spot that she'll only share if she thinks it will help and I called BS on that.

After about an hour, she said that she seems to hurt my feelings every day and it doesn't seem to be getting better. She said that when she confronts me on that, I deny it. I listened to that and validated how she felt.

To say that she hurts my feelings every day is an exaggeration. I will own that as part of recovering from the affair, I'm more sensitive than usual. A couple days before Christmas she told me I was "looking round" which I didn't appreciate. On Christmas morning she yelled at me because the way she was laying in bed with me was giving her a headrush. I was hurt by that because historically, she would verbally attack me and get nasty for no reason. I'd ask her how her day was and she'd go off on me. When we were packing for vacation, she was getting frantic trying to get out of the house (never a good time for W). I asked her if there was anything I could do to help and she snapped "do whatever you want!".

So yes, I guess there is a pattern where she's making me upset, but it's not like it's all in my head and I'm imagining something based on some way she looked at me.

The issue, of course, is that this feeds into her fear that she can't make me happy, that nothing she does is ever good enough, and that all she'll do is let me down. That was her "exit excuse". I find it very hard to reconcile, because I really don't ask for much -- don't cheat on me, don't be mean or nasty to me, and have sex with me about once per week. I would also like her to work on figuring out how to enjoy sex, and to work on her overall self-esteem and anger issues.

We're on separate flights home, but I definitely feel like I'm leaning over the abyss again.

In terms of the great feedback I've been getting:

Labug: I still don't understand your distinction between setting boundaries and having expectations. If you set a boundary you "expect" it to be respected, right? What's the difference? It just seems to be another way of stating a need. Please expand.

Greenblue: "Crazy" implies a lack of recognition of your condition. W knows she has issues, she just chooses to cope with them rather than work on dealing with them. So yes, in effect, she is choosing to feel the way she does, because the alternative of pursuing therapy is available to her. Some people can't afford that route, she's in a position to be able to do it, so living with her condition is indeed a choice. I have been working on overall happiness, believe me, I've but everything into it. She has told me multiple times that her love tank is full and she's getting everything she wants/needs from me. She just wants me to be happy and accept her as she is. That's a reasonable request. I just find it hard to accept living with someone who's not happy -- she's unpredictable in that she's up one day and down the next, and it's hard to relax and feel comfortable and happy living in the shadow of that. It keeps me on edge, and on edge is not happy. I will continue to work on it. I'm very confident that the new IC I found will help, and the fact that she's agreed to see him with me is huge, I can't wait. He warned me that he'll likely throw me under the bus to make her comfortable and to get her to trust, so I know the first session will be hard on me, but that's OK.

Captain: Although that post was very deep, I have been pondering it. I agree that I do not "need" sex in a Maslow's hierarchy sense of the word. I am using the word "need" in the context of the relationship books I've been reading -- maybe a desire would be more appropriate. It's a desire that you would like to see fulfilled to feel comfortable and happy in your relationship. Quoting from "When Good People Have Affairs":

"In fact, being needy can be a sign of health and strength if what it really means is that the other person knows what they need, and that what they need is appropriate, and they ask for it. That's not needy. It's called being effective.

And it's not any less effective just because you don't feel like giving your spouse or your lover what they need. People have a right to get their needs met -- for affection, for feeling loved, respected, listened to, taken care of."

So a central tenant of many of the books I've read echos this sentiment -- you have a right to have your needs met in a relationship, and you owe it to your partner to vocalize your needs -- otherwise they will never be met.

The same books talk about the importance of accepting your spouse as-is, without expectation of change.

Now if you ask to have your needs met and the other person obliges, there is no issue -- that's healthy and productive providing your needs are realistic.

If you vocalize your needs and the other person doesn't want to or can't meet them, then you have the contradiction, your "right" to have your needs met is being violated, yet you need to accept the situation anyway.

I've found precious little guidance out of that spot other than "suck it up, too bad for you".

For clarity BEFORE my W dropped the bomb, she said she faced this same contradiction, although she failed to ask to have her needs met, she just assumed I was unable or unwilling, which, as it turns out, was a bad assumption!

CURRENTLY I have been meeting my W's needs, with the exception of accepting the fact that she's resigned herself to be perpetually unhappy.

WRT sex, I am getting sex currently, so that's not my need per se. I would like to "make love" instead of "receive sex", and that's a different thing as everyone on this board knows.

Greenblue: She's not looking for fusion -- in fact, she really professes to expect nothing from me and to accept me as-is. She does honestly try to live her life that way. She does not look for me to make her feel better, in fact, she tells me that I can't, there's nothing I can do because it's her issue. W's vision of marriage is actually that we don't "need" each other at all -- that we each stand independently 100%, and that the marriage provides benefits over and above that. In that view, she is espousing differentiation per Shnarch. If anyone wants some fusion here it's me, not her.

She does not "demand" quality time. She simply told me that's what fills up her love tank. If I don't provide it, she doesn't complain, she'll just vote with her feet. She's more complicated than the portrayals in the relationship books, because she's a contradiction of independence and self confidence, versus low self-esteem and anger. She needs help from time to time, but to ask anyone for it is the ultimate admission of inadequacy and that makes her sink deeper.

If she's drowning and you throw her a rope, she'll be pissed at you, because she "should" be able to save herself. How dare you imply that she needed your assistance. At the same time, she recognizes that she was drowning and that if you didn't help her, she'd be dead. She's very aware of the illogic of this, she's just not willing to work on it. When I see her suffering, it's very hard for me not to offer help, but when I do, it makes her feel worse and then get angry at me for extending a hand.

I have to train myself not to offer help -- either provide it without offering, or back off and let her suffer in peace.

Accuray