wife mlc? help

[lostadrift]

journaling

Well made it thru xmas. i was hoping to have a little more clarity of the whole situation, if there was any feeling of progress.The two days of being around the W just felt like a lot of hot and cold moments. some times she seemed distant, mad, and mean. other times she seemed happy and warm. she initiated alot of "talks" with me that we would finish not really accomplishing anything. Its like she wants to be good friends to talk about everything including boyfriends and girlfriends. ofcourse i dont have one and she does. i told her im not interested in talking about anyone she is seeing that it is just too weird for me.i know if i was seeing someone she wouldnt want to hear about it and would not like it very much at all. the one time she thought i was going out of town to see a girl she became pretty mean and irate. when in fact i was just going to see a family member... im trying to focus on the positives. once driving in the car at nite i could see her staring at me deep in thought. i gave her a wink and grabbed her hand and we held hands for about ten minutes. i new it wouldnt last.but it was nice the kids in the back music on the radio. it felt like a whole family if only for a little while.time will tell i guess. is she warming up to the idea of us? or is she completly set on moving on and wants us to be friends?... she did make a weird comment in one talk about how she ended this while we still liked each other.that if she would of waited till we didnt then this wouldve become an ugly split like a lot of D. i thought that was strange logic.

[lostadrift]

well i figure journaling has to be good therapy and eventually i may get some responses. well yesterday my W moved out of our house into the townhouse we used to rent out which is now hers. im out of town for work and she texted me that shes pretty much moved in and it looks good. i said congrats im sure it does. she seems to make contact with me on a fairly regular basis and i dont know how to read it. has she realy completely moved on and just wants me around as some kind of friend or what? i have told her im not interested in just being friends.im really lost im constantly trying to analyze her words and i know i shouldnt but i cant help it.uugh

[lostadrift]

it will be nice when my posts show up on a page other than 4. i was in a descent mood for most of today trying to focus on positives. untill i talked to my S tnite and he tells me the W had people over tnite for dinner. her parents that are in town a girlfriend of hers and the OM. now this got my blood boiling. about 10 days ago i found out she had Om over around my kids(they know who he is cause he used to be a friend of mine). i had a talk with the W reminding her that we agreed not to have anyone we are seeing around the kids, it was her idea in the first place.anyways i told her our kids arent ready for that yet they still arent used to living in seperate homes yet.she said well when then? i suggested when we take the kids to counseling next month we ask the counselor. she said fine. Then now tnite hes over??? i texted..for the sake of our kids i thought we had an agreement? she replied with some sort of story that her mom invited him and she new nothing about it. i truly dont by this for many reasons i wont get into.why does she not get that this could cause damge to our kids in the future. why does she continously lie to me, and a poor job of it.i feel like i get a shovel to the face every week.

[JustStunned]

Lostadrift, Your posts will take awhile to show up while in moderation. This is normal. Use the time to read other threads to gain insight into what other people are doing and how they post. Post often, and not only in your own thread. Offer empathy and support if nothing else in other peoples threads.

This does a couple of things for you. It changes your mindset seeing other people’s pain similar to your own. It engenders a sense of community. It permits the Mods to build trust. Many people here are emotionally vulnerable and moderation acts as a shield for some of them.

I perceive a lot of anger in your thread. While this is normal it does not assist you. Ideally it should be let go as you detach from the emotions of this situation. If you cannot let it go find a constructive way of venting it. Not at your W or in this situation.

Have you gotten a copy of DR or DB and read them?

What are your W’s main complaints and what have you done to address them? What are your 180s?

What are you doing to detach and GAL

Early on it is it normal to get wrapped up in what is happening to oneself and the unfairness of it all. We all need to move past this initial reaction, acknowledge our part in this debacle, and do the work to change ourselves from the person our spouses are running from and into the person they would be a fool to leave.

Lastly and please do not take this personally your posts would much easier to read if they were broken up into smaller paragraphs.

[25yearsmlc]

I don't know what others have said to this but I felt compelled to respond now. So if it's a 2 x 4 that isn't needed, so be it and I apologize.

Read the DB books of course. They form the basis of this site's unique approach to marital crisis. But also check out "The Five Love Languages". Your wife's love language is quality time together and that love tank of hers has been empty a long time. She's not interested in the "benefit of not having to work" and I'd bet she feel she HAS worked....just not for money and apparently not for your respect or gratitude for her giving up a career to stay at home.


So when she says "My love tank is empty" you say "too bad"? And then she says "let's take a trip" you say no...and so on. You refuse to fill her love tank or to speak in her love language even she makes it clear to you what she needs.

Wow...you really blew an opportunity so many men here did not get. I hope as I continue reading that I see changes in your approach...

weve been M for 15yrs and T for 16. Im 40 W is 39 a S13 and D7.weve had a pretty good marriage in my and her aswell as pretty much all our friends opinions. we had been arguing lateley over her feeling too lonely and bored and that she felt i didnt love her anymore. my job requires me to be out of town 3 sometimes 4 day a week.


That is a crap load of ALONE TIME for her...why not change your job? OR promise to retire sooner?


BTW, please write your posts in smaller paragraphs-easier to read!


she has always professed her undying love for me and how she would always be there but she was always worried that i would cheat or leave her. i have not. she has expressed to to me in the past how she felt like everyone we know was in a bad marriage. the spouses werent in love or someone was gonna cheat. she also feels her granny isnt happy in her marraige of 62 years.


so on 08/11 she drops the bomb she wants to split that shes not happy and her needs arent being met. im gone too much and when im home i have too may hobbies and shes to far down on the list.


MANY women would feel this way. You are chronically physically absent and then, when you are home you make no effort to compensate for your absence.

How long has she put up with this?

How did you react to her saying her needs were unmet?


now i make pretty good money and she never had to work and the kids dont need her as much now and she tells mw shes bored.


she does not feel important to you, or needed by the kids.



sex life was always great.i tell her if shes not happy with me go find happy. i make a stand.


A "stand"? For what? Your ego? Your pride? How did that go?

What do you want, (other than to "teach her a lesson")?


she says lets go on a trip together. i say you need to be happy with me right here. i cant takke you on a trip whenever your bored. she says lets have another baby and i say your crazy. your leaving me but a baby will make you stay. she said if you retired in 5 yrs id stay but you have at least 20 and icant do it. i say fine go.thinking she needs a taste of th real world,

OMG....she humbly gave you 3 ways she could find love in her life with you and each one gets shot down...I am not saying having another child was the solution but I understand her desire for one, and your refusal to have one is ....odd.

But your refusal to go on a trip is incomprehensible to me. Tell the other men around here, who had wives leave them

that you refused to go on a trip with your w b/c she wanted TIME WITH YOU!....but wear some armor b/c you'll get slapped around for that one.

And why not at least entertain the idea of retiring sooner? Give her something to hold onto...nope.

You made it clear that this is who you are and you are not going to change AND she is not worth you changing for...so "take that w! Tough luck!"



but i do love her.

how and why would she know that? What have you done or said that indicates it? Again, read the 5 Love Languages...she is not impressed or feeling loved b/c of the accolades you get at your job...she feels lonely b/c her mate chooses to be away from her many nights a week, and it's not temporary. It's a choice you are making and apparently are not changing it.

I'm an Army veteran married to a man still in the reserves, who'll be deployed again, this spring.

I understand how she feels. But in our case my h has no choice. YOU DO...


And in my case it is NOT FOREVER but you are clear that IT IS WHAT IT IS

and you simply do Not care if her needs are not met.

Do you see how clear that is?

You just had multiple chances to show her the importance she has in your life

and you continue to make sure she knows she is NOT important enough for you to change a thing...


she gets depressed crying not sleeping not eating, going out drinking.asking me why im not fighting for her? i said fight what? she says your just gonna let me go?i say your leaving me.


meaning, "YES I'M LETTING YOU GO AND NOT CHANGING A THING IN ME"


i have 2 guys i hang out with a married guy and a single guy. so they are being my shoulder during this ordeal and i figure ill be spending alot of time with single guy. almost 2 months go by and then i get slammed with the shock of my life. i find out the W and the single guy are seeing each other now behind my back.


did this really shock you? Wow, I'm not shocked at all. I AM SORRY but I am not shocked.


it flipped my lid.now me and the wife agreed that we were no longer a couple about a month prior and could see other people so she wasnt really cheating on me.

so you are sliding to divorce anyhow, not fighting for the marriage and I guess the rest of the posts will answer my question which is, "Why are you here?"


now the single guy totally doesnt seem her type. hes cheated on every girlfriend hes had since weve known him. and my wife has serious trust issues. now this has been goin on since mid octber and they are spending all there time tgether. all our friends want nothing to do with them. ive obviosly moved out.


I guess in your case it is obvious...

my W getting new boobs.im the one depressed now ive lost my girl who i thought was being needy and would come around. ive lost my friend because he is betraying our friendship. i tryed to get her to come back but she says its too late. you let me go. now im just starting the no contact, getting in shape and trying to live a life without. but it kills me i know shes over there every night i have our kids. any input plz.

why are YOU beginning no contact? Isn't that lack of interest and effort on your end the reason you are here?

Sometimes backing off is what is suggested here but your w said you ignored her and then when she gave you several chances to stop ignoring her,

you changed nothing. So is It only b/c she is with a NEW MAN that you now care?

Hmmmm

[25yearsmlc]

I finished reading your whole thread.

you are doing NONE of what Div Busting suggests. You seem to think this is something that happened to YOU.

It's not.

Based solely on what YOU have told us, your story is unusual in that your very neglected wife gave you tons of warnings, which you ignored.

She launched many "SOS"s into the universe and sent out her red flares...

You ignored them.

Only when she began to see OM did you care.
In fact, is it b/c your pride is hurt more now, that you care at all? I mean I can't help but wonder why you're here since you are not interested in changing the relationship (which requires changing you)

but now that there's an OM, you "care". That might be about wanting to
"win" and not about loving her.

She probably sees that.

Why are you HERE on this site, since you do not seem interested in changing YOU? I'm sincerely asking b/c I can't tell why you are here.

You are all you control...

when you discovered OM, you just got angrier.

What are you doing to show her that marriage to you, from this day forward, can be better and different?

Don't you see that the change of agent here must be YOU?

Don't you see that insisting YOU WILL NOT CHANGE means she won't come back?

How much pride do you have that it SO outweighs the love you claim to have? If your m fails, it won't be b/c SHE did not try.

I don't know what it's going to take,

but you SEEM to have read the book b/c you heard about NO Contact

but it's like none of the rest of the book sank into you.

You seem interested in punishing her, and "showing her the consequences of her actions" (that's code for punishing her)

but as my DB coach said, "it's not our jobs as spouses to teach them a lesson, LIFE does that".

(PLEASE CONSULT A DB COACH ASAP...YOU NEED HELP FAST...)

You ought to be "Keeping The Road Home, Paved & Smooth"
but instead you are throwing thigns in her face. WHY?

WHAT IS YOUR GOAL??

Every time she gives you a chance to show you care,

you blow it.

Have you ever felt empathy for her? Have you tried to see things from her viewpoint AND THEN CHANGED SOMETHING IN YOU? When?

You need to be able to feel empathy, which I do not sense, and to get that, you may need a shrink. I'm sorry but you are simply Not getting it.

And you asked for direct feedback and you've been here long enough to hear this:

This is on YOU. YOU must change or your m is over.

Do you get that?

[25yearsmlc]

This is a long post but I hope some of it is sinking in...and your words are useful for guidance...

journaling

Well made it thru xmas. i was hoping to have a little more clarity of the whole situation, if there was any feeling of progress.

strikes me as either passive AND OR lazy...Selfish or detached? Both?

IOW what did YOU DO OR SAY that would create any progress?

The two days of being around the W just felt like a lot of hot and cold moments. some times she seemed distant, mad, and mean. other times she seemed happy and warm.


What was YOUR response to those times? Were you upbeat or happy or lovable? Maybe she did not know what to make of you.

she initiated alot of "talks" with me that we would finish not really accomplishing anything.

Why didn't they accommplish anything? Did you change how YOU interact with her or

did you have the same old conversation?

Did you tell her that

if you "had the chance to do it over again, there are A LOT of things you'd do differently" ?? Like, for instance, "Not taking her for granted"??


IMO, this woman so clearly wants to feel loved by YOU.. she has given you MANY chances to show it. But if you won't or can't give her the love she needs (and it's not unreasonable requests she has made, fyi)

then she'll go where she can find it. You gave her permission to do just that.

So, if I were her, right now I would not trust your reconciliation gestures much, but you don't make any so...what's to trust?


Maybe She feels cornered now with your "take it or leave it" attitude, so you pushed her off and now she's trying to move on and be happy.




Its like she wants to be good friends to talk about everything including boyfriends and girlfriends. ofcourse i dont have one and she does.


so is that what bothers you? The score? Man, please lose the scorecard or lose the marriage for sure.

i told her im not interested in talking about anyone she is seeing that it is just too weird for me.i know if i was seeing someone she wouldnt want to hear about it and would not like it very much at all.


That's^^ a reasonable boundary. But what are YOU doing or saying about YOUR R with HER?


the one time she thought i was going out of town to see a girl she became pretty mean and irate. when in fact i was just going to see a family member... im trying to focus on the positives. once driving in the car at nite i could see her staring at me deep in thought. i gave her a wink and grabbed her hand and we held hands for about ten minutes.

that's a good thing! Very positive...

i new it wouldnt last.

meaning - what? What happend to "focus on the positives"?


but it was nice the kids in the back music on the radio. it felt like a whole family if only for a little while.time will tell i guess.


"time will tell i guess"...um, TIME AND CONSISTENT CHANGE IN YOU..

stop taking such a passive role in this. I think that's how you got here in the first place.

TBH, I cannot tell by your actions if you love her...

is she warming up to the idea of us? or is she completly set on moving on and wants us to be friends?...

what indicators does she get FROM YOU that show you care at all?

You continue to misplace the focus on HER

but the focus must be on YOUR actions and words now, not hers.

She showed her love for you for years.

She also told you, clearly, in several ways how SHE could feel better if you'd simply do one of a few things...and you said "shove it"...so why stare at HER for the moves? You are still making her do all the work.


I know it's tough for men in that they are supposed to be "sensitive and caring" but also passionate and able to provide for their families and kill or die for them...literally...so A LOT is expected of my h and my son and my brothers....I get that.

(I won't go into how tough it is for women these days b/c I want to avoid the whole comparison thing--too much like keeping score)

My h is an MD and in some ways a problem for doctors in general, is that b/c they work so hard AT THEIR JOBS

they feel the efforts there should "spill over" at home. They don't.

See, in reality, his time at work, his extraordinary efforts there, the

relentlessly long hours of work and preparation

took away from time at home and our marriage.

He has since seen this, and made changes in his work, but you have not.

Historically, I mishandled things too. i got angry and hurt, but should have welcomed him home with warm open arms and not crossed arms...

at least he'd have had a good loving home to return to and I suspect SOME of those extra hours at work would have been lessened.

Bottom line is my approach of "teaching him a lesson" (b/c i feared I'd be "rewarding him" for not being home, by being kind when he got home and that he'd take more advantage of me. Maybe...

but even when I saw my approach NOT working...did I change it? NOPE! Not for years...I was a fool! But luckily, DBing came into my life and though h was deep in his MLC, I had an epiphany about MY role and I changed... I hope you'll have your epiphany too.

Don't let stubborness play ANY role in your marriage unless it's to hang in there.


See, In my mind when h worked extra, or took on more cases, sometimes it was for "the money" -which we did not NEED...sometimes it was for accolades from his superiors or colleagues and that made us feel at home that the adoration of strangers was more important to h than our love for him.

Sometimes it was for good reason that he worked late BUT even then, it was at OUR expense. You don't seem to see that yet. I hope you do someday.

Instead of fitting your family in your extra time - it's the opposite. You need to make the FAMILY THE PRIORITY (and the marriage is the foundation of the family)

and fit in your work (and, dear God, hobbies!) around THEM...not the other way around.



she did make a weird comment in one talk about how she ended this while we still liked each other.that if she would of waited till we didnt then this wouldve become an ugly split like a lot of D. i thought that was strange logic.

Actually IMO, the reason that more divorces END when a wife leaves, as opposed to when a h leaves, is b/c a

woman usually only leaves when she has nothing at all left for her h. Her love tank is totally empty. Therefore there's no real reason for her to "try and make it work".

In her mind she already has done the work for years. And when her needs were not met she looked to the kids b/c all woman want intimacy in their lives. (It's a NEED we have.)


Whereas some men leave to explore other avenues or check something out and THEN realize they care enough for their wives & family or feel incomplete without them,

so that THEY change and choose to become the husbands their wives deserve and the father their kids need...

But in your w's case she left you while she still has love for you so you HAD a good chance at turning things around.

She informed you awhile back that her needs were Not being met. She presented options for you

(you didn't mention ANY options that you presented to her)

So when she presented options to you about how to meet her needs,

b/c she said her needs were not being met, you told her you would not meet them.

Do you see why the posters here are telling you the same thing? We are all basically telling you to

STOP THE DIVORCE TRAIN. Look in the mirror asap. CHANGE YOU.

Can you see how you did not try to turn it around, by changing YOU?

Your wife warned you BEFORE the OM came along

and you said "take it or leave it"

and you even agreed to date other people so she has NOT cheated on you.

(But that was another chance to show her how much you cared, by saying I don't want to lose you! Don't date OMs!"

which you blew by daring her to date others and agreeing to...

Even though she has Not cheated on you, you seem to be playing the victim here and I don't get that.

Your former friend probably thought that your w is a "great catch and I'm going to pursue her b/c H was a fool to let her go."

One of my bff's from high school had that same thing happen.

Her first h ignored her a lot.They fought. He worked. He didn't really "show up" for her and to this day I wonder about him. He was either selfish and stubborn or he simply didn't love her much; I'll never know.

But when she asked for more time together as a couple to work on the marriage or she'd want out, he told her to "Go and see if the grass is greener". To me, that sounds a lot like what you told your w. Sorry...

So, in my high school bff's case, her h's then best friend said he "didn't want to miss the chance of a lifetime w/a great woman" and he went for it.

Swept her off her feet, and that was 28 years and 3 kids ago..they are happy. I don't know what her ex h is doing now.

Her ex h acted as if he had been betrayed. I don't see it that way. I just think he blew it and a smart opportunist who may have loved the wife from afar, stepped in.

And in your case I can see why your friend would take the opportunity to pursue a good catch as your w seems to be. You didn't get counselling or do anything your w asked to keep the marriage going,

so to HIM maybe it seemed you were moving on and leaving the marriage behind. After all, you gave HER the go ahead to date...

ANYHOW...what you need to digest is that the couples who successfully RECONCILE,

IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT (b/c I can't tell)

are the ones in which the LBSer bravely looks within to find their flaws and to change THEMSELVES...without any guarantee that they'll get their spouses back

but they will be better people.

IF YOU WANT TO RECONCILE....

THEN HERE IS WHAT MY DB COACH TOLD ME TO DO & much of it applies to your situation...

The goal is to

1) KEEP THE ROAD HOME, PAVED & SMOOTH (so don't make it harder to come back than it already would be)

2) Lose the anger, esp in front of your wife.

3) Applaud loudly for hte 1% positives She does...even when it's hard.

4) Do NOT bad mouth the OM. That just unites them, and is beneath you.

Be the better man, the better choice, w/o obsessing about them...

5) Be a man only a fool would leave.

6) Do NOT challenge her choices, b/c then you force her to defend those choices more, and that cements them in...

7) Demonstrate through your behavior & actions...

how YOU would be different in the marriage If you were to be given another chance.

That's the only way She'll believe marriage to you can be good.

8) Read the Five Love Languages as fast as you can.

I believe you still have a chance to turn this around.

Do you want to? Think hard about that....sometimes it's about "winning" as opposed to loving.

If this is your pride, then move on.

But know there is a fine but important line between self respect and false pride.

Many MANY people confuse them.

Those angry prideful LBSers say "show the WASs the consequences" or "teach the WAS a lesson"

and that is pride talking about taking punitive measures...not coming from a place of love.

It Never helps, it Always backfires. Shaming them fails, as it should.

I really hope for your kids sake and your wife's sake and yours

that you will try to turn this around by

working on YOU and YOURSELF...b/c

if she sees changes in you that she believes in,

you have a real chance of restoring the marriage into a beautiful thing.

[2thepoint]

"Actually IMO, the reason that more divorces END when a wife leaves, as opposed to when a h leaves, is b/c a woman usually only leaves when she has nothing at all left for her h. Her love tank is totally empty. Therefore there's no real reason for her to "try and make it work".

In her mind she already has done the work for years. And when her needs were not met she looked to the kids b/c all woman want intimacy in their lives. (It's a NEED we have.)"

I'd really like to explore this a little more. I'm going to post on my thread and hope to get some perspective from some of the posters.

[CO1978]

You just got a lot of great advice. You defiantly have to ask yourself, what it is you truly want. If it is to be married to your W, then I suggest listen the the advice.

Do you think you need to change? At first when my W left I thought the same way as you did, I thought it was all her fault. I did some soul searching (reading articles on the internet and found this website) that first week, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Accepting your faults is a big step to the road of reconciling. Even if you don't reconcile, you will make yourself better. Take a real good look at yourself.

[25yearsmlc]

2

I'll look for your thread when I get a chance, okay?

And Lost, you are getting hammered here b/c from the get go you really have not listended to what was said.

I still don't know ANY GAL or 180s from you. Not one.

My point really is that if you wait too long to pursue your w,

which I think, in YOUR case is what you ought to do

your w will begin to have deeper and deeper feelings for OM

and your inaction will look worse and worse.

So act with haste if you want to turn this around.

Start with what all of us have said, in some form,

and that's with YOU...

good luck