WAW told me she idoesn't want to be married.

[verycrazy]

Well, witz, at least your kids will have some fun for New Years, and so will you. I guess for now, you will just have to deal with things at your mother's as best you can. I think it's great you set things up in the basement to make it seem more normal for the kids. So y'all have your own separate space.

You see that going dark has yielded good results for you. If she sees this site, she could see you are trying, but you never know if that's the way it will go or not.

As for the astrological stuff, I don't believe in all that. I don't believe the stars or planets have any power over our lives. I do, however, think the 11 thing is odd. I don't think it means anything, either, but it is something how I look at the clock, and so many times it's something:11. You are free to believe or not believe in anything you wish, though. I know a few people, like my MIL, who believe in astrology.

vc

[verycrazy]

When an image of my H and ow would enter my mind, I would say NO! and shake my head as if to clear the thoughts. I could not let it stay in my mind for my own sanity. It took a lot of time before I was able to do that, though. Use some of the time to do fun stuff for you. I also, at first, before I learned to cope, tried retail therapy, which ran up a lot of debt. So, don't go shopping!! It doesn't help at all. I had a twenty thousand dollar limit on my card, and dang near made it.
vc

[witz10]

VC thanks I will try the head shake over the shopping.

She text me to tell me someone called from the ymca regarding our financial aid and asked me to call. Could she have called as well yes but I still did it. It is my name on the account. Basically we got turned down for assistance. Since I have been on payroll since all this started through my families business I have to provide a paystub. One of the reasons for my separation was I was getting paid under table. So now we are in a higher bracket and don't qualify. Not sure if we will get assistance for camp this summer for kids either. So I am sure she is not in a happy place. I will be paying for the family for the Y since she can't afford to do it. Money for both of us is going to be very tight.

She also asked me if I heard anything from my attorney. I told her I will email her my notes from my meeting later on tonight. Something I am not looking forward too.
Again wish she would reconsider and go to counseling so we can fix this. The book lays it all out.
I saw it all there in print. We were married 7 years, I had a mlc plus depression my escape was tv, I lacked romance and passion towards her. Worked second job cause I thought more money would make everything better. What does it equal makes her vulnerable to someone else who will listen and talk to her, now this is her MLC and she is doing exactly what is written in DR. I have highlighted most of the book already.

Logic loses out at the moment.

[verycrazy]

You're right, logic loses out at the moment.
Pretty much, whether you were paid under the table or not, whether you worked extra or not, whatever, she would most likely have gone through a mlc herself. Who knows to what extent? It's more than likely what you said in your last paragraph that tells what the biggest problems were in your M.

Since you are S, and living with your family, it isn't likely you could leave the book out for her to see, so the only way to have her see it is to have it in your car. But, giving it to her to read most likely would not work, and could backfire.

vc

[witz10]

VC I don't plan on having it out or giving it to her. Though I could like MWD on facebook and see if that does anything. When I first bought DB I went to the website first. Watched MWD videos and this is where I learned about WAW syndrome. So I copied and pasted a bunch of links together and emailed them to her. I looked her square in the eye told her what I did and asked her to please watch them. I doubt she did. Cause in the book and on here people told me it was a bad idea. This is why I also told and emailed the link to the girl I spoke with on Monday. Maybe she will look it over and tell my W that I am working to fix me and all this.

Tonight is another rough night. Kids are here felt myself not wanting to be around them though. Mostly because I know if they are at home she has to pay attention to them and not OM. Now they are with me for 5 days she can go do whatever. Hopefully this guy will shoot himself in the foot and ruin everything by getting too drunk on newyears. The way my luck has been is not going to happen. In fact I was informed that he is drinking less now. Great he is sobering up.
Also found out from my W that she is the talk of my condo building. My guess is a downstairs neighbor saw her coming or going from OM apartment and started to talk about it. There are also two other ladies that used to talk with us all the time and now ignore her. Guess they liked me more.

Need to get out of this funk so going to take kids to mcdonalds tomorrow night and go to the gym with them. Should help some. Get those endorphines going.
Other problem is still picturing him with her in my mind in a way. And watching tv seeing things that remind me of things we did together or touched each other, or cuddled in bed. Not a fun night.

[witz10]

Had a heart to heart with my son this morning. He is 6 he woke up first and came out of my room to play this morning. Mind you i am trying to sleep on a twin mattress on the floor outside my room. Kind of funny i went from a queen bed with my w, to a full size now i am back on a twin. Boy how I have learned humility through all this. I digress, my s was up playing with his train when my d 3 woke up she came out and they played. However my son was being very bossy and reprimanding my d with me lying there. So I had to put an end to this and tell him if he can't play nice then I will take his train set down. Then when I was getting them dressed he was giving me attitude. I finally got it out of him why he was acting this way. He wants me to come home. I told him I can't right now and that I don't know when and if I will ever be home, but we are a family that lives in two homes and loves him and sister very very much. He cried I got teary eyed as well, i am a sap. I asked him has he spoken to mommy about this and he said she says the same thing but she doesn't cry.
I am sure she cries at times maybe just not infront of them. Who knows.
When will she be open to talk about us if ever? Can't wait to hear from her today after I emailed her last night regarding what my attorney said.

[witz10]

OK I am driving myself batty right now. I have not received an email from my W. Which means 1 of 2 things she is pissed at me and not talking to me regarding the agreement, or the other option which is she is still down at the OM's place and there is nothing I can do. I am trying to keep myself busy at work. However my computer is all screwed up and slow and IT is taking its time. So all I get to do is sit and stew. Not a fun thing to do right now.

[witz10]

OK I need some advice ASAP. Here is what my wife emailed back to me today regarding our separation agreement.

I'm not going to get into it all here - any agreement we sign can be considered a halfway step to filing for divorce - we have been at that point since May - the only difference is having something signed by both of us. I feel I have a lot more to lose in comparison to you based on your financial status and having everything paid off and, although I don't like to say it, I don't feel protected from your family in case they choose to push you to fight me. I have everything to lose - I have no home in my name and no certainty that there is any financial or custodial agreement. and I also have your bills still under my name. we clearly are going to have to sit down and talk about this stuff without the kids. I don't think we are on the same page still.

I told her in my email that according to my attorney in the state of PA we can just agree to take over financial debt. I told her that I will take over what she has of mine in her name. I also want to reinsure her that my family has no involvement regarding us. They hold no sway over what I decide. Everything I have done has been based on decisions I have made. First being to move out in May.
I refuse to fight her for anything because I don't want to lose her and no matter what happens we are tied to each other for the rest of our lives. In the past my beliefs were my families beliefs. The benefit of the whole family. Well now my belief is the benefit of my family. My son, daughter, myself and hopefully her at some point. How do I get her to understand this. She still thinks I have not changed because I am still working for my family. Do I just up and quit. Collect unemployment? What will that get me?

[workinghardguy]

Witz... I hear similar things from my W. It is fear she is working from, so while you may want to approach it rationally understand that she is being driven by an irrational source.

Quitting your job would be silly. What would that get you? Remember, she has left so why would you quit your job to assuage her feelings?

The other advice I would give is what I've received on these boards... divorce/separation is a business decision and agreement. It is not a vehicle for reconciliation, revenge, retribution, or showing love. You need to make decisions from a business mindset. What is best for you? What is best for your daughter?

In negotiations/discussions with my W, for example, I offered voluntary alimony payments (though they aren't technically since they won't be court ordered). I did that because W was willing to keep our S on her health insurance. If he was on mine my premium would be $400 more per month. So, I split the difference and gave her $200 of the $400 I'm saving.

Why did I do that? Because I've looked at her budget numbers. I know what they are, and that $200 could go a long way towards having my S live in a house where things aren't as dire as they could be. At the same time I built in safeguards... if she gets a good raise then my money stops, if her student loans are deferred my money stops, if she moves some guy in my money stops, and if I have an income reduction it stops.

But let me highlight the third one... if my W moves in a guy. That was not to be controlling of her. It's one reason it's only $200/month extra. I calmly explained that if some guy moves in I feel it is reasonable that he will help pay for household expenses, AND that it is not reasonable for me to pay for her to live with someone. And it's $2400/year that some new guy would displace... I would hope any guy she brings in makes at least that.

But each of these were done with what is right for me and right for my S, SS, and SD in my mind.

It isn't pleasant and won't be. Just because she's mad or stressed isn't your problem. Be honest, be fair, and make this about your needs and finding a middle ground with hers.

[25yearsmlc]

VC I don't plan on having it out or giving it to her. Though I could like MWD on facebook and see if that does anything. When I first bought DB I went to the website first. Watched MWD videos and this is where I learned about WAW syndrome. So I copied and pasted a bunch of links together and emailed them to her. I looked her square in the eye told her what I did and asked her to please watch them. I doubt she did. Cause in the book and on here people told me it was a bad idea. This is why I also told and emailed the link to the girl I spoke with on Monday. Maybe she will look it over and tell my W that I am working to fix me and all this.


So, no matter what advice you get to NOT do something, you will do it anyhow? And so far, that has not helped you. ANd you still wonder about what?
"making" her read it? And then what? "Making" her come home? I have a hard time wanting to post long notes to you b/c I fear they will not reach you.

you are Not getting it...this is about changing YOU, not her. Can you see that?

Tonight is another rough night. Kids are here felt myself not wanting to be around them though. Mostly because I know if they are at home she has to pay attention to them and not OM. Now they are with me for 5 days she can go do whatever.


Wow...Um, let me get this straight...

so YOUR pain and hurt ego are more important than the happiness of your kids, or your time with them or your role as a father?

See, the irony here is that one of the biggest turn ons for women
is the loving interaction of their children with their father. Don't blow this.

They're the most important relationships in your life and they affect your marriage too. I find this statement of yours very telling.

Focus on why your needs are the most important ones AND whether that was an issue in your marriage. I think it was, and it has NOT changed...


Hopefully this guy will shoot himself in the foot and ruin everything by getting too drunk on newyears. The way my luck has been is not going to happen. In fact I was informed that he is drinking less now. Great he is sobering up.


what are YOU doing? Less about him, all about you and your kids...

Also found out from my W that she is the talk of my condo building. My guess is a downstairs neighbor saw her coming or going from OM apartment and started to talk about it. There are also two other ladies that used to talk with us all the time and now ignore her. Guess they liked me more.


IGNORE ALL THIS.^^^^..IT HELPS NO ONE...NO ONE...

Need to get out of this funk so going to take kids to mcdonalds tomorrow night and go to the gym with them. Should help some. Get those endorphines going.


Other problem is still picturing him with her in my mind in a way. And watching tv seeing things that remind me of things we did together or touched each other, or cuddled in bed. Not a fun night.

GAL asap. YOU CREATE WHAT IS IN YOUR LIFE...MAKE IT A FUN NIGHT.


Do you know what that really means? Meet new people. Change your attitude.

When I lived in the interior of Alaska and NOT around a big city, here are some things I did. Only a few cost much.

I joined a writer's group

Auditioned for plays and got roles and met cool new people

Did stand up comedy
Volunteered at a women's shelter and got on the Board of Director's
Volunteered at the kid's school
Took flying lessons and got a pilot's license

Went skydiving

Joined the Officer's Wives Club

Took a pottery class (way out of my normal activities)

Was PTA president (might not do that again)

learned how to hunt and fish (H's interests but I got into it too)

took archery lessons, and firearms shooting lessons

worked out a LOT and got in great shape,

saw a shrink, and took meds for the winters

took a French class, went to financial seminars, & took a cooking class

Took a trip to Italy with the kids and had a great time, NOT thinking of h much at all
DO something that does not remind you of your w at all.

Bowl, play baseball or just do something she has nothing to do with...

more later on your family stuff. Sounds like you have no boundaries with them and they with you.

Do NOT INVITE THEIR COMMENTS and tell them that nicely...

"I'm not inviting comment on that, but thanks for your support"...