What else could I have done?

[antlers]

I understand where you're coming from, but...are you saying I'm wrong for hurting? Am I wrong for being in pain? Am I wrong for being sorry?

[JT71]

Now you're just having a pity party. You are not wrong for feeling that way and you know it. You are wrong to try to make your ex responsible for those feelings. Feel any way you want but know that it is you feeling it and no one else's responsibility.

We have all gone through this and I still every now and then indulge in the "what if" game. But that's it, I indulge in it and I know the outcome can only be frustration and sadness.

You can't change the past and you can't force someone to see changes in you. If you have changed then it is for you and your children and future people you will meet. That has to be enough.

Maybe when your kids are grown and gone and your ex has time to think, she may realize you weren't all bad but that could be a long time in coming, if ever.

Never expect anything from your ex. You don't get to. She certainly doesn't expect anything from you. Treat her as you would an acquaintance. Be polite, kind, and considerate. Do not be too familiar or needy. Who know, in time she could come around. But never plan on it.

Another suggestion. Schedule your "mourning" time. Do not let yourself dwell on the situation but instead plan 1 hour a day to think about it. At first, it takes all your self control to tell yourself "Not now, I can think about this a 6:30" ( or whatever time). Then when that time comes, sit down and go over your thoughts, cry, scream, whatever you need to do. You will find that the more you do this, the less you dwell on it during the day and eventually you have to really work hard to get yourself to sit and mourn. The need fades. This really does work if you give it a chance. It also frees you up to be the person people remember you as and not the forlorn guy who got divorced. It makes a difference.

[antlers]

Nope. I'm genuinely sad that I treated her the way I did. I am responsible for treating her that way, and I am responsible for the results of that behavior...including what I'm feeling. I've owned what I did from day one. I do appreciate your 'in the face' reality. But, anything I feel, any pain, remorse, etc., I feel it because I'm sad that I did it. I was responsible, and she's not responsible for those hurtful feelings. I've never said, or felt, otherwise.
She is responsible for the pain that I feel as a result of her infidelity though, and her deceit.
I know in my heart that I've changed. I did because I needed to. Period.
I can't count on anything, other than the fact that I have to get over this if I want to live a happy remainder of my life...and I do!
I've sure been feeling a lot of very sad things lately though. I'm 99% sad because of my actions in the past toward people that I cared about. Even though I've forgiven myself, and I truly have...I still have a conscience.

[antlers]

I was such a broken person for all those years. And I hurt my wife and kids because of it. And I lost my wife and my family because of the way I treated them.


And I'm pretty damn sad because of it. I behaved in such a way that I find it hard to live with.

[25yearsmlc]

I understand where you're coming from, but...are you saying I'm wrong for hurting? Am I wrong for being in pain? Am I wrong for being sorry?

You feel as you feel. It's like asking if you "should" feel feverish when your temperature is 102'F....it's not really a moral matter.

The moral & practical questions are more about what to DO about your feelings?

And the answer is, "Something good & constructive."


what else are your possible choices here Antlers? I mean, what are you really wondering? I sense you want to "DO SOMETHING" but you won't blurt it out.

Seems to me that since you are hurting & feeling pain- you must work on HEALING...so we'll address that later on, the "how to" of it all.

But let that answer sink in..."Antlers must begin to heal."

and your sorrow --ah, well if it is regret and remorse for past actions/behaviors that you are NOW working on repairing and learning from....

then here's something I heard at a great conference that didn't hit me til later.

He said "If a problem is being worked on, then it's no longer a 'problem'".


IOW, If you are working to fix, repair or counter negative traits you had

then that's literally all you can do, isn't it? What else is there to DO or SAY?

Apologize? You have. Repairing the flaws?

The underlying assumption is that you ARE working on these flaws, right?

(Let's go with that assumption- b/c iF it's not true, then make it so! Work on your flaws as we all must.)

May I submit one possibly painful observation/question?

It's this. You stated in a prior post that you were a bit oblivious to the love your wife and family gave you back when...

that you were "drowning in a sea of it" and yet did not really notice it or you took it for granted, correct?

Is that an accurate enough re-cap?

Okay Antlers, my friend, you are precariously close to repeating that now.

Do you see how?

You need to be CREATING "MOMENTS OF LOVE" now, today, w/your family and loved ones

but instead you are spending so much time and energy in regret about the past

I fear you are creating more regret for later....Do Not let regret paralyze you.

That's what I meant when I said "be Here NOW"...


Get time with the kids. Join them in an activity THEY enjoy,

and if they're amenable, then introduce them to something YOU enjoy.

Can you plan a trip (even just a weekend or maybe camping or something cheap, if money is an issue)?

OR a more serious adventure if you have something saved for a rainy day and some time with your kids...


On my 25th anniversary I knew h would be in the tundra, not home. I figured he might send roses as he'd done for our 24th just after moving away...(see, my h never SAID he "wanted" a divorce, he just HAD to live somewhere else from the rest of us, whether we came or not -which is not an incentive to go--

plus it meant 3 moves in 3 years and we had 2 kids in high school whom we have vowed Not to move, and there were so many dealbreakers in there, which HE KNEW, that he simply didn't want to 'own' the divorce...but I digress)


POINT BEING...rather than me feeling like crap on our anniversary again, I
decided to do what I would want to do for my anniversary but without h.

I planned a trip to Italy with the kids. The planning itself brought my eldest d and I closer. Never underestimate the value of the planning fun.

She was very hurt by h's absence for her last 2 years at our home...and this gave us both a sense of proactive FUN making without h as a factor. Didn't need his approval and did not need to work with his schedule or his work needs b/c he was NOT a factor, by choice. It was fun AND empowering.


The planning of the trip was a source of joy. We did not overspend, btw

and yet had a blast. And when we got there, there were ZERO memories of h b/c he'd never been there before
and so there was nothing to remind me of him...or "us"

and I had some of the best people in my world with me-our kids. Best money I ever spent/borrowed/begged for...

and you know what else? Weirdly enough and NOT as a goal of mine, I learned later on

how much it bothered h that we had gone somewhere cool without him!

he must have at least started to realize that we would go on and be happy with OR without him.

That truth hit him hard b/c it began to dawn on him that he was losing more than I was.

Maybe I'm mindreading too much but he did say he felt 'left out"...(how crazy is that? )

What I KNOW is that it began to dawn on ME-- that I'd be alright no matter what.

When that sinks in to YOU-- it'll show and be noticed by others in a good attractive way. Even though that's not the goal, paradoxically it often happens that only when you feel good about your future no matter what or with whom

does your WAS seem to take notice. She might not care enough to return or explore a reconciliation with you. But goodness Antlers, she will notice and regardless of what she does with it

are you thinking that somehow being sad and miserable will appeal to her more? You know better, plus it hasn't worked anyhow...

When you "get" that you can be happy again and will be, your life will improve

AND your kids will have a father to admire, and to spend time with and

you can create that Antlers.

What's your r with them now? If you feel a chasm between you and your kids, begin to repair it.

Take them out to lunch, one on one if possible. Apologize ONCE if you feel it's needed and if it has not already been said.

Repeating it too often makes THEM feel awkward and uncomfortable. Check in with them about that, if they're old enough. I don't recall their ages but let's assume they're over 16??

If you never told them a thing about the divorce or never really apologized,

then maybe Say something Once- like

" I have a lot of regrets about the way I handled things in the marriage as a h and as a father...while I can never make up for what I missed, I'd like to do better from now on. So...what's your schedule like? When can We get together?"

Most children no matter their age, want time with their parents NOW to be good
or better...

saying you have too much to make up is no excuse for not being a decent dad NOW

Antlers, my father was a brilliant educated man with a stressful job he could not discuss. That's tension in itself. And There were 9 children born in 12 years in our family, and my mother needed far more parenting help from him than he could or would give. English was her 2nd language and she was not able to make it on her own if she'd been so inclined...and my father was a raging alcoholic so

A recipe for disaster...indeed.

He was not always a raging alcoholic but he was from when I was about 9, til I was 29.

There were SOME good memories in those years. But mostly BAD ones of his temper and irrational outbursts. He Never saw a single game of mine and I played varsity for 3 years, so there was neglect too.

In sum, He was mostly a lousy dad and worse husband.

But Here's the deal...Antlers, my dad got sober when I was about 29.

He became a better grandfather than a dad. I was not resentful of that; but grateful. We became fairly close. In a time of professional crisis, I consulted HIM, not my mother, for an ethical dilemma. I consulted him for work related issues and when I once considered an affair 20 years ago

(a time I'm not proud of but that I understand. My internal moral compass confronted some great rationalizations I made then, and tremendous loneliness, but rather than hijack here with that digression, suffice to say)

what is relevant here is that it was MY FATHER, not my mom, whom I confided in...and he was very clarifying for me. Antlers, he showed up for me.

That was new....in a time of personal crisis for ME, he was a "good father"!

I really valued this... I lived 1500 miles away but we spoke often after he got sober. Then he got cancer and died, so we only had 3-4 years of a good adult relationship.

But it's better than nothing. And in those years are memories I pass on to MY kids so they'll have something to hold onto. I don't sugarcoat his failings but I want them to know the good stuff too.

Create some of that for your kids Antlers. If my dad could make up for his abuse and years of crap, you can repair things with your kids.

If this is really all about your ex w, then you can work on that too but the kids are a priority b/c those r's can be repaired AND you won't be taking anything away from your r with your ex w by getting close to your kids.

What's holding you back in rebuilding or repairing the r's you have with your kids?

And though this is NOT a reason For restoring those relationships, a byproduct of it is that your ex w will see it...

Worst case scenario She may resent it on the surface b/c after all you "don't deserve them now!"....but she will also feel gratitude for it.

If she openly negatively remarks about it to you, you can say "better late than never" and mean it.

Isn't it far better for her to resent you showing up late, than for her not to see anything from you with them, ever?

Try to figure out what you think is holding you back with your kids and go from there.

You can make the most of what you have now, From this day forward,

or you can keep staring at what you lost, and create a whole life time of mororse regret which your kids can do nothing about...

If you feel YOU only deserve misery, then remind yourself that THEY deserve better from you...

Offer them your best now. It's all you can do!

[JT71]

Hear Hear!

[antlers]

I've been feeling a lot of regret and sadness lately, especially regret for my past behavior toward those I loved. And sadness that I lost my wife and my family because of it.

I've struggled for 3 years with what to do about my feelings. I've mostly suffered. Some days have been better than others, and I've tried to be strong, but I just feel a deep and profound regret and sadness for the reasons stated above.

Doing "something good and constructive" makes all the sense in the world. I've mostly just existed for the last 3 years, I certainly haven't 'lived'.

My possible choices are to continue to do what I have been (suffering and being overwhelmed by this grief)...or to do something "good and constructive". I'm wondering how to not be overwhelmed by this regret and sadness? I WANT TO LIVE!

I do need to heal. I don't feelade much progress at all on that. The acute phase of this awfulness is over, but now it's the deep seated stuff that I'm dealing with.

I must begin to heal. I realize that, and I want to, but I haven't, and don't know how to bring it about.

It is regret and remorse for past actions and behaviors...I started working on repairing and learning from it before she left...and I've continued to work on repairing and learning from it over these 3 years. I've learned a lot, but unfortunately not much has been repaired between those I loved and myself. Specifically with my oldest daughter and her mom. My youngest daughter and I were doing fine until last November. Now she and I are estranged. On the other hand, I have made much progress on repairing what made me a broken person (thanks to the work of Steven Stosny). I'd give anything if I could take my new knowledge and experience and go back to a certain point in my life. But I don't get to.

I am still working on repairing and learning, and they still feel monumental to me. They still feel like problems. Especially when the regret and sadness kick in. My son chooses to live with me, and he and I do OK for the most part. But he has some deep seated anger, and depression, because of the events of the past 3 years...and honestly, some due to what he experienced himself for the previous 5 years or so...at my hands.

I am working to fix, repair, and counter manay negative traits I had...and I've been doing that for over several years now. I do feel, for the most part, that I'm doing all I can do. But I should be doing a much better job of it though. I don't think there's anything else to say...but there is much to do. Getting stronger, living as opposed to existing, etc. Actions truly do speak louder than words. I've made so many mistakes during the past several years, even though my intentions were good.

I have apologized, sincerely, ad nauseum, to all involved. Those apologies haven't meant sh!t to my ex. My youngest 2 kids have accepted the apologies, and my oldest daughter has to a lessae degree...her loyalty is to her mother. I feel like I have repaired many flaws in myself so far. Some flaws between my youngest kids and I have been repaired, although they still have unpleasant memories. And I might add that they have used those memories to try and control and manipulate me over the past few years some. I feel nothing has been repaired between my ex and I. She told me last month that she "hates" me still, and "you haven't changed at all". My oldest daughter fluctuates, and has during the entire time since her mom left, but is consistently 'anti-me' the overwhelming majority of the time.

I am working on these flaws. I make more progress working on my flaws. I have more control over myself...I have no conrol over them. I'm really trying to have more self-compassion (something I didn't have), and compassion for others.

I truly am continuing to work on me. I've accomplished a lot, but there is so much more to do. I have no personal strength. I feel emotionally weak. But my realization, before she ever mentioned leaving to me, that I needed to make some changes within myself was a true realization. I really needed to do this no matter what. And I continue to work on it. I get sideteracked sometimes because of the remorse and sadness that I feel.

I'm all ears. Any question you could ask or observation you make that might help me in any way...let it rip.

I was tremendously oblivious to the love that they all gave me back then. And knowing how rare it is to be genuinely and truly cared about...it makes me hate myself to have taken it for granted like I did. I miss it. I will never take that kind of love for granted again, never. Hard to imagine that I will ever have it again. I likened it to standing knee deep in a river and dying of thirst. Yes, that is an accurate recap.

I see your point. I probably radiate the regret and sadness that I feel. Did you see the text that my 15 y/o daughter sent me recently? I posted it in its entirety on December 14th. She disowned me as her dad. She's pissed. And I could see huge influences in that text from my oldest daughter, and some from her mom too. Ever since then, about once a week, I've still been sending text messages to my 2 daughters...just to let them know that I'm thinking about them. They've gone ignored. But I still do it. My son and I spend a lot of time together since he lives with me, by his choice. He knows I'm sad. He loves basketball, so we play outr front on a nice goal I got him for his birthday, and we've been playing air hocky on a table that I got him for Christmas. He loves for me to watch him play X-box too, so I do. He and I take big trips...Phoenix, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, etc. I like to hike and climb, hunt and shoot, ride motorcycles, and ride road and mountain bikes. He shows no interest in any of those things. That's OK. I still do them when I can, but he and I do things that he likes. My youngest daughter has shown an interest in hiking. My oldest daughter (I've been her dad since she was two) lives with her boyfirend, works full time and is a full time student in college. I don't hink my daughters are receptive to reconnecting any time soon. My oldest daughter has flat out told me that verbatim a few months ago. They have both establishesd a relationship with the new guy and spend time with their mom and him. That hurts. I was devastated, completely, with my wife leaving and the destruction of my family. I was weak in front of my kids. I couldn't help it. But they didn't like it! They jumped on me like wolves do to a wounded baby elk. That just worsened what I was already feeling. Thet actually resented the hell out of my weakness. Those acute stages of that stuff are over. But they still throw it up in my face occasionally (how I used to be). I need to be more focused on my son, and do a better job with him. He and I will continue to take the kind of trips we do. When we all were a family, we always took big trips on Spring Break and during the Summer.

I'm pretty sick of feeling like crap. I do exercise regularly (especially riding my road bicycles and mountain bicycles). These are things I started doing after she left. I can 'go' on a road bike...I've done some century rides, and it's not uncommon for me to do 50, 60, 70 miles or more on my day off and when the weather is conducive to it. The endurance aspect of it is appealing to me...those endorphins get going and marinate my gray matter for how ever many hours I ride.

It bothered me the first time they took a big vacation without me. We'd always taken such nice trips. I wish I'd have felt like I knew that I'd be alright no matter what from the git go, but I still don't feel that way...and I so want to! I do think that people are attracted to others who have a healthy view of themselves. I want to feel good about my future. I don't want to do anything ever again based on what my ex thinks about it, or based on what she might or might not do with it. Being sad and miserable isn't appealing, and has done no good at all, for anybody involved, including me. But I couldn't help it that I felt that way. I want to know in my bone marrow that I'll be alright no matter what. I want that to sink in. I want to get" that I can be happy again and will be, I want my life to improve.

I don't feel like I'm admired by anybody right now, especially my kids...even by my son who chooses to live with me! I was such a bastard for so long, then I got weak as a defenseless baby bird, and now I'm trying to recover from a loss that has nearly killed me emotionally. I darn sure want to create something other than what I've had in the past.

My relationship with my girls [censored]! There is a huge chasm there. I don't think my girls are receptive to anything about me right now. After getting that text that was authored by my daughters, I see that things are at their worst with them since our family was dissolved. Youngest is 15, oldest is 22. Youngest and I were fine, until I sent the letter of concern to her mom, which her mom showed her immediately. She felt like I'd betrayed her truct. Then she attacked me for things that she's told me many times that she forgave me for. And her big sister influenced her a lot, and so did her mom. I've heard them say the very things that my youngest daughter mentioned in the text. And, they are angry, I believe, about the discussion that my exMIL and I had about exW's infedility. Right now, I can work harder on the relationship with my son. I have tried very hard with my oldest daughter ever since her mom left, and she has been hostile toward me for the most part since then. I feel like she has divorced me to. She has let me know that she's not interested in "rebuilding a relationship" with me right now. She'll go through very short periods where she wants to see me, then disappears from my life again. I personally believe that it's never too late to start doing what's right.

I want to make up for the years of ewmotional abuse, and I want to repair things with my kids. My exW told me last month that she couldn't care less about my life, and I should feel the same way about hers. So, nothing else should be about her. The only thing holding me back with my kids are...that text which describes their feelings about me right now...and the fact that I'm weak and not healed. I don't think they like that. If they don't want me in their life right now...it doesn't seem like forcing my way into it would be the best thing to do. Ever since she left, my exW has resented me having a good relationship with any of my kids. And she has put forth effort, and still does, to undermine the kids and I having a good relationship. The pain that I felt as a result of losing my wife and my family has influenced my relationship with my kids in a negative way.

I really do want to make the most of what I do have now. I want to get over what I lost. I want to get past it. I've had enough morose regret. I'd like to be able to let go of this pain that I'm holding on to. My kids do deserve better from me than what they've gotten so far...my pain and misery made them feel uncomfortable.

[SunFunOne]

Antlers: I have seen a complete outpouring of understanding, listening and wonderful advice here. And you reply that you hear us and thank us then keep going over and over and over again the same thing. Do you really think you can keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result?

None of us here are therapists. We do commiserate. We do understand. But if you can't get past this or take a small step to make it better - then you need to get professional help.

You do mention you are seeing a counsellor but you don't mention how your counsellor is helping you. You don't mention implementing any of our suggestions.

I don't think there is much here that we can offer. The next step has to come from you. Expecting acceptance of an apology is for you - not for her. Why should she do it?

As for your daughters - actions speak louder than words. "the text is stopping me" - is a complete and total copout. I've heard my kids tell their dad they didn't want to see him. But then he tries again and they make the effort and life goes on. Your daughter is your daughter for the rest of her life. YOU need to be the adult here.

And as we pointed out a long time ago. Did you really think that telling your ex MIL was going to HELP???? Why point out her mistakes when you acknowledge you made many yourself.

Anyway - please let your supporters here know what you are doing to make the necessary changes. Let us know which advice we've given you that you have actually used. If you keep whining about how unhappy you are but don't do anything about it - do you really think we will continue to make suggestions? We run out of ideas after a while.

I think you need to have your depression addressed if it hasn't already and maybe that will make the change for you to be able to make positive changes in your life.


Barb

[antlers]

Antlers: I have seen a complete outpouring of understanding, listening and wonderful advice here. And you reply that you hear us and thank us then keep going over and over and over again the same thing. Do you really think you can keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result?
My post above was a direct response to the things that 25 was saying to me, asking me, etc. But I appreciate all input. I know as well as anyone that I need to 'man up' and take more positive, especially mental, steps. I'm relatively new at the commitment to 'let go' and move forward. I have taken some steps toward doing that, and I actually feel quite good about the progress that I have made since Halloween. I think I'm feeling more sadness in some way because I realize the finality of it, and that when I truly let it go, which I'm destined to do...that is really is a 'done deal'. Certainly if you keep doing the same things, then you're gonna keep getting the same results.
None of us here are therapists. We do commiserate. We do understand. But if you can't get past this or take a small step to make it better - then you need to get professional help. I realize that, although the information gleaned from these pages is pretty remarkable and insightful at times...but it's usually always helpful. I feel like I'm just getting started on getting past this, and I have taken several steps since Halloween. I started seeing a professional counselor since then with the express purpose of helping me let go of the pain I've been holding on to...and moving forward. I started going to the gym regularly, I started back riding my bicycles, I started eating more healthy, and I'm putting forth even more effort to learn to be a better man. I've lost about 35 pounds since Halloween. Those are all steps.

You do mention you are seeing a counsellor but you don't mention how your counsellor is helping you. You don't mention implementing any of our suggestions.
She is pointing things out to me that I haven't thought of before. She is helping me to see things from a different perspective. She is encouraging me to stay in touch with my daughters even though they say, and show, that they want nothing to do with me right now. She is also a sounding board for me to vent. She's helping me to realize that my happiness is now dependent solely on me, and that my exW forgiveness or not doesn't enhance or diminish me. Basically, at this point, nothing about my exW (her thoughts, her feelings, etc.) should add to, or take away from, my value as a human being. These are things she is working with me on...with the goal of helping me to 'let go' of what I'm holdding to.
I don't think there is much here that we can offer. The next step has to come from you. Expecting acceptance of an apology is for you - not for her. Why should she do it? An understanding ear, even if you feel like you're getting nowhere, is helpful regardless. I believe that others still feel like they have something to offer me here. Everybody's time frame is different. And I believe that in some ways I have something to offer others here too. I'm taking steps...they aren't leaps...they're steps. But the end result is that I'm moving forward. I don't expect anything from her, especially acceptance of an apology. She might see that as giving me a clean slate, and she's not gonna be doing that. Understandably. After walking on eggshells for as long as she did, her hatred toward me is justified.

As for your daughters - actions speak louder than words. "the text is stopping me" - is a complete and total copout. I've heard my kids tell their dad they didn't want to see him. But then he tries again and they make the effort and life goes on. Your daughter is your daughter for the rest of her life. YOU need to be the adult here. I do believe that actions speak louder than words. They don't want me in their lives right now. Forcing my way into their lives when they have made it crystal clear that they don't want me there would be wrong. I don't think it's a copout...it's a reality...a setback in the midst of all this crap. It's an expression of their feelings...am I not to honor their requests? I've tried, and when they tell me to leave them alone, which they have, should I continue to force my way in? I did go to court for my daughters shoplifting charge, much to the dismay of her and her mother. And I will be there again at the next court date. I haven't disowned them...they have disowned me. I still love and miss them, and I text that to them on a regular basis. And despite those messages going ignored...I'll continue to do it.

And as we pointed out a long time ago. Did you really think that telling your ex MIL was going to HELP???? Why point out her mistakes when you acknowledge you made many yourself. No sense going over that again. I knew it wouldn't help, but it was important to me for them to know the whole truth instead of just part of it (the part where I messed up so bad that she left). I won't mention it again to them. I am fully responsible for my mistakes, and their consequences. Never denied that form day one. But I have owned my mistakes and feel that I'm better for doing that. She hasn't owned anything, even though her extracurricular activities certain contributed to the separation and divorce. He actions certainly did not diminish what I'd done in any way.

Anyway - please let your supporters here know what you are doing to make the necessary changes. Let us know which advice we've given you that you have actually used. If you keep whining about how unhappy you are but don't do anything about it - do you really think we will continue to make suggestions? We run out of ideas after a while. I'll try to do a better job of letting my supporters here know what I'm doing to get better. And I'll try to do better to let y'all know which advice has helped me, although much of it is subconscious and comes out in my way of thinking and looking at things. And I'll put forth more effort to stop whining about my misery. I know that all folks here have experienced grief, sadness, misery, etc. And I'll try to take even more positive steps and share those here. Again though, some days are better than others for many here...and being able to vent here sometimes helps in and of itself. I appreciate the time you take here, and the effort you put forth here, to kick my ass. And I'm not being sarcastic either.

I think you need to have your depression addressed if it hasn't already and maybe that will make the change for you to be able to make positive changes in your life.
I took anti-depressants for the first 2 years. After that, and on the advice of my friend who is an ER doc and knows me well, I came off of them. I do not want to be on them anymore. I believe I'll be fine...I'm just finally dealing with some stuff that I guess that I'v been putting off. It made me sad to find out that she was in a commited relationship. The finality of 'us'...and the absolute crystal clear realization that I needed to let go in order to move forward made me feel things that I've never felt before.

[SunFunOne]

OK - obviously we don't know everything going on with you. But I'm still reading your focus on HER and HER activities and HER new guy. etc. And how SHE doesn't acknowledge what she did to you. Or how SHE influences your kids. You cannot change her or her actions. You can only change YOU.

I know you don't want to talk about the discussion with ex MIL again but you wrote about it again today. "Let it Go" is the advice I gave you last week. But the reason I wrote my last post is because you are writing the same thing over and over again. You are not letting any of it go.

That's great that you are making some changes. But, although I do not care for ADs at all - sometimes you need them and it might be worth a consultation regarding your depression again. Often ADs are a lifelong drug although I'm sure know more about them than I do.

Antlers - sometimes I do kick your ass but I am trying to get you to turn a corner. It's coming up 3 years for you and although we all move forward at a different pace - it seems you've been stuck for a while. In all honesty - I do not think you are over your ex. I think you kept hoping she would come back and now that she is in a committed R (not unusual at the 3 year mark) - the finality is causing the reality of the situation to hit home.

Just trying to read between the lines. Nothing wrong coming here to vent - we have all done it. But we don't usually hear the same thing repeatedly - venting is usually about new developments.

Hope your C is helping you and is solution focussed.

Barb