Together since we were 15.

[Jenna333]

My partner of almost 9 years told me 3 weeks ago that his feelings for me were not as intense as they used to be. He said he was still in love with me, but he was unsure if his future had me in it (romantically). I freaked out, as I had not seen this coming. We talked all night and decided to try and see where it led us. 1 week later he dropped the bomb on me. He said he was not in love with me anymore, he didn't want to marry me or fight for me anymore. He said the thought of me with someone else didn't even really bother him anymore. That was a huge change, considering we both tend to be jealous people, and the thought of me with someone else would have torn him apart a few months' prior.

It came out a little later that he had been falling out of love with me for the past 6+ months, but it didn't hit him that that is what had been happening until it was already done and there was nothing I could do about it. He said he had hinted to me that he was getting fed up, but I had been depressed and in my own little world and did not catch onto the hints. He now admits that he should have done more than just hinted when something so important was at stake. His hints were things like saying, "I don't know how much more I can take" while we were fighting.

I guess I should describe our relationship. We met when I was 14 and he was 15 in a high school computer class. He sat behind me. He had an instant attraction to me, and I didn't feel the same way. He flirted with me constantly, and after a while I flirted back. We became good friends and emailed/talked often for a year. We started talking on the phone soon before becoming an official couple. We had so much chemistry. A month and a half before I turned 16 we became a couple. 2 months later he told me he loved me, and I told him that I felt the same way. 1 year later we got pregnant with our now 7 year old daughter (her birthday was 2 days ago). We have always had a very intense relationship. I tend to be very controlling and codependent, and he needed to be wanted more than needed, which wasn't the way that it was. I did and still do love him an incredible amount, but it was overshadowed by my NEED for him. He took care of me. He spoiled me. And I let it happen. It was never a true partnership. When our daughter was 3 weeks old, he was 18 and I was 3 months shy of 18, he left me. He told me he didn't love me anymore and he wanted to break up. I moved an hour away to my grandparents' house and he stayed living with his mother. We were split up for 2 months. We still slept together, which was very confusing and hurtful for me, but I wanted him any way I could get him. We didn't work on ourselves enough while apart, and though things were ok for a few months, we slid right back to where we had been. He would go out all the time behind my back and lie to me about it, and I would try to control his every move out of fear.

I ended up leaving him a little over a year later. We were apart for 4 months. I once again moved an hour away up to my grandparents' house, and he stayed with his mother. I was 19, and he was 20. Our daughter was under 2. I had been having an EA since the beginning of our relationship. I thought I had feelings for someone else. I was just a kid, and my ex let me walk all over him. I did not respect him. He also didn't respect me, as he lied to me often. We were tangled in a web of emotions and feelings. We loved each other, but were too selfish to put in the work to have a successful relationship. Anyway, during our 4 month split, I strung him along while still talking to the other guy. He was at my beck and call. He cried almost every single time he saw me for 4 months solid. He wrote me letters stating that he would do anything to get me back, but that he knew I needed this time to figure myself out, and to figure out my feelings for the OP. It was a long-distance relationship. Barring a 1 week visit, the only contact the OP and I had was by phone. I'm not sure if this is TMI, but ex and I lost our virginities to each other. I was even his first kiss. When the OP visited me during the split, I slept with him. I actually had to stop a few minutes in, because I was crying, feeling like I was betraying ex. But I still didn't go back to him. 2 months later, there was drama where I was staying, and ex actually let our daughter and I move back in with him, while we were still apart...while I still talked to the OP on the phone often. I was incredibly unfair to him. He had such patience. He'd tell me that whatever happened, he knew we'd end up back together. Well, he told me that he had slept with a coworker (he had recently changed jobs, so she was a new person to him). It destroyed me. I didn't think it would have, but oh, it tore me apart. And do you want to know how I treated ex? I was horrible to him! It was partly because he slept with her without protection, and then slept with me without protection without telling me about her first, but the biggest part of it was the realization that he would not wait around for me for forever. I could not have my cake and eat it, too. He did say that what he did was a mistake and only had him missing me more, but all I felt was betrayal that I had absolutely no right to feel. Well, we ended up sleeping together a whole lot after that, and I became pregnant with our now 4 year old son very soon afterward. We had been together ever since, until 2 weeks ago when he left me.

I've never worked. I went from being a high school student (we both graduated early) to a mom at 17. I have been a stay at home mom. He has been a server at a few different restaurants and a full time college student (started school a couple of years ago). I took him for granted. He did most of the cooking. I put my needs before his. A year and a half ago we had a breakthrough. I realized that what I had been doing with the other guy for all of those years WAS cheating (I said it wasn't because I couldn't help how I felt). I did cheat with him physically when I was 16. It didn't lead to sex, but it was way over the line of what was appropriate. I hurt him an incredible amount, and I always brushed it off. He had a porn addiction that he didn't kick until a few months after we got back together the first time. I almost left him over that one. He's had bouts where he's had drinking problems. He never treated me like an equal. To be fair, I never acted like one. We would talk about getting married, but never saw the urgency. We always said we were soul mates. Though our relationship has been riddled with dark times, we've laughed through most of it. We get along very well, and we still have amazing chemistry.

I've lived my life in fear. Fear of social situations, fear of going to work or school, fear of releasing the perceived control that I felt I had on him. One thing I've realized in these past 2 weeks is that you can never control another person. And should never want to. When he told me it was over, he said I pushed him away too much, and his feelings started to diminish. He started feeling indifferent towards me. We never thought this would happen. He's always loved me in a fierce way through all of the BS I've put him through. Even after we got back together after the first time he left me when we were kids with a baby, he said he hadn't really fallen out of love with me, he just said that so I'd let go (which I didn't). He said this time is different. I was blaming myself at first for all of this, but I see that it does take two. He has taken the blame for his share (without prompting from me).

Wow, it's hard to try to fit our relationship into one post! Hoping you're all still with me. And I hope it's ok that I'm posting here, considering we were never married. He said he really had wanted to marry me, but he hadn't seriously considered it in 9-10 months. We just kept getting worse. I still didn't see him leaving me. I would tell him we needed counseling, and he'd just say he had a bad experience as a kid with a counselor and that we could figure it out ourselves.

Since he left, I spent a week begging, pleading, crying. Trying to shock him out of what he was doing. It obviously hasn't worked, and now I know that that is the wrong thing to be doing. My world has been turned upside-down. I have to get back into school, I have to get a job, I have to find an apartment (we've been renting from my mother, and I can't afford this house on my own). He is paying all of the bills until I am able to handle them myself. I ended up asking him to move out. We were going to keep it under wraps until after Christmas (over 2 weeks after he dropped the 'I love you, but I'm not in love with you' bomb), but I couldn't handle it. I knew he wasn't going to change his mind, and I couldn't mope around the house with him being here, witnessing it. He's living with his mother for now.

A few days after he moved out, he told me the thought of me with someone else tears him apart! It just makes me wonder what else he's only saying so I let go. The realizations of what he's asking for are hitting him already. I got dressed up in a sexy dress to go out 6 days after he moved out, and he saw me in it and made a wounded comment about me going out and having a 1 night stand to get over him. What he doesn't know is that I lasted an hour before I started crying and had to have my friend drive me home. The thought of anyone else still honestly repulses me. He's made offhand comments about how he 'hasn't done anything with anyone.' Since I've backed off, he's leaned in closer to me. Throughout all of this, he hasn't outright said that he doesn't ever want to be with me again. He's said he isn't sure if his feelings are permanent or not. He's said he just doesn't care about me the way that he should, and that he's sorry. Our interactions have not been hostile or angry for the most part. I've shown a happy, brave face in his presence. 2 days ago was our daughter's birthday, and we went to her holiday program at her school together with our son sitting between us. I was lighthearted, smiling. I could feel his eyes on me as I watched our daughter sing with the other 1st graders. Afterward, he invited me out to lunch. We had a nice time. I said something that I regret now, though. I said, "Do you think we both knew deep down that this would happen? That we just work better as friends?" His face fell, he looked down, but he nodded. I know that we could be amazing together as more than friends. I know it with all of my heart. As awful as this all has been, I've been woken up from the stagnant lifestyle that I put myself in before. He knows that I'm going to be going to school and getting a job (if financial aid won't cover my living expenses). He would tell me over the years that I wasn't happy with him, but it was really that I wasn't happy with myself. I looked to him to fulfill my happiness, and that just is not healthy or even possible. He says that we aren't good for each other, but it isn't true. I am changing. I know it will take time to prove to both of us that the changes are real. It's only been 2 weeks. I am just hoping beyond hope that his romantic love for me isn't dead for good.

Yesterday when he picked our daughter up from school and brought her home, he was very flirty with me. He used any excuse to brush up against me, lean in with his face close to mine. He even tucked locks of my hair behind my ears. He had been hugging me at goodbye, but I had put a stop to it, and we switched to shaking hands. The day before, after we went to lunch, he grabbed me into a hug before I could shake his hand. Yesterday, after he was being incredibly flirty, he tried to hug me. I stopped him and asked him why he wanted to hug me. He said he wanted to be my friend. That one really hurt. I am very vulnerable right now, but I am not looking to be friends with benefits with him. I am worth more than that. He is coming over after work tonight, as it's Christmas Eve, and will be sleeping on the couch. We're opening gifts with the kids tomorrow morning, and then parting ways. A part of me is worrying that he will try to come onto me tonight, if I'm not asleep when he gets here. It's very confusing for me. I want him so much, but I don't want to be a target for his loneliness. I sit and chat with him, but giving myself to him physically is just too much. We've always been so loving when we've slept together...he always says 'I love you' multiples times during. I think a part of me would just die inside if he slept with me and didn't say it...which he obviously wouldn't. I need to be strong, and have a sense of pride in myself. I miss kissing him, hugging him, being able to talk freely with him. I want him to come around more than anything. We had already beaten the odds by staying together for so long after becoming teen parents together, though we did have 2 small splits during our almost 9 years together. He seems to be enjoying his newfound freedom. He's going out all the time, drinking and partying until the early hours of the morning.

I've ordered the DB book, but it hasn't gotten here yet. I've been reading on here for days, though. Such helpful information. I've been applying the techniques. As soon as I backed off, he's been very flirty with me...but I'm not sure that that is what I want. He may just be lonely and he knows that I still deeply desire him. My being affectionate with him, though it's something I lacked while we were together, I don't think would help at this point. It would be a 180, but I think he knows I would act that way now out of desperation and neediness.

[Grmpy_Mnky]

Hi Jenna. I'm new here myself and I have found tremendous support by reading other posts. Hang in there!

[Jenna333]

Thanks, Mnky. While it's awful that anyone has to go through this, it is a comfort to know that I'm not alone. A divorce forum is the last place I thought I'd be spending time on Christmas Eve.

[Jenna333]

I'm trying to enjoy Christmas with my family, but it feels so wrong without him here with us. Opening gifts with the kids this morning was a bit awkward. He commented positively on my looks ("You've lost a lot of weight." "I'd like to see what's under that top."), but he seemed melancholy. He was choked up when it was time to go. He said he didn't want it to work out like this. Well hell, this was the last thing I wanted. He's picking the kids up in less than 3 hours. I'm spending the majority of Christmas afternoon and evening alone.

[Jenna333]

Well, we ended up sleeping together last night. It was amazing. Afterward, he told me that he had a hard time not becoming emotional during. He actually started crying afterward, saying it's been so hard to process all of this. He said he just stopped feeling lucky to be with me, within the past 6-8 months. For so long he felt so lucky to have me, even though things were often hard with us. He was trying, but he wasn't feeling any differently, and the love slipped away. He says he isn't sure how he'll feel in a year, 3 years, 5 years, but for now this is the right thing...to be apart and growing as individuals. He said he still cries every time he sees me...in the car, after he leaves. I notice the tears in his eyes when he leaves.

I need some help, please. We should not sleep together anymore, should we? Both of us are not seeing others yet (it's only been 2.5 weeks). I said I would not do this, but being so close to him last night was something that I don't regret. We talked for a couple of hours afterward, and then he left at 1am. Of course a part of me was hoping he would have fallen back in love with me already and would come home, seeing that these changes I'm making are permanent, but it's not happening. Not yet, anyway. A big part of me is SO worried that the love died and he'll never feel that way for me again. He has said that too much has happened for us to come back from. Last night he said he always wished we were each other's second loves, rather than firsts, because then we would have learned from those relationships and we would have had a better chance succeeding together. I said that the thought of our relationship being chalked up to a life lesson made me sad, and he teared up and said it makes him sad, too. I want us to have a new love, formed from the ashes of the old. A healthy relationship. I know we could do it. He's at a point where he just feels we need to be apart. Friends and family think I'm acting like a fool for hoping.

All of last night just keeps running through my head. Especially him saying he stopped feeling lucky to be with me. I felt him slipping away the past 5ish months and it didn't click in my head that that was what was happening. I never thought he'd leave, and he really didn't think he would either.

This doesn't seem to be like a typical 'divorce.' He doesn't want to avoid me. He isn't angry with me (at least not outwardly). He says this took two and he accepts his own blame. He kept hugging me last night afterward, and though we both cried, I did no kind of begging or pleading at all. He really opened up to me. I just did not hear what I wanted to hear. I know I need to work harder on detaching. I think sleeping with him will make that almost impossible, but the thought of never sleeping with him again...my eyes are watering and my heart is racing just thinking about it. He said he wants to be there for me as a friend, but he has no idea how to act around me other than as a boyfriend.

Deep breaths. If it's meant to be, it will be. He has not said we'll never be together again. He wants us to grow as individuals. He really isn't feeling how he should for me, but that could change. Deep breaths. I want and need to be the best person that I can be. For me.

If anyone has any advice for me, I'd appreciate it and take it to heart.

[dbmod]

Hi Jenna--
Here's what Michele has to say about sex with an estranged spouse--

------------------------------------------
Many times people wonder whether or not to have sex with their estranged spouses. Here's my response:

As I always say in my seminars, there are no single, one-size-fits-all solutions to any situation, this situation included. However, I do have some thoughts about the issue of having sex with your spouse when separated either physically or emotionally and/or if there is another person in the picture.

For starters, if you do decide to be physical, it's essential to use caution and be smart about protecting yourself from sexually transmitted diseases.

Having said that, let's explore the emotional side of things. If your spouse is interested in being sexual but shows ambivalence about or even disinterest in your marriage, it makes sense that you might feel uncertain about being close physically. You might worry about feeling used or cheapened in some way. IF this is an overriding feeling, don't do it. However, I look at it another way.

Sexuality is a special way that people connect with each other. Although some people have sex simply to experience a pleasant physical sensation, that is rarely all that happens. Having sex leads to having emotions. If someone is doubting his or her commitment to a marriage, experiencing feelings of connection during lovemaking is a good thing and it might increase the chances that the confused spouse will feel inclined to work on the marriage. Obviously, it doesn't always work this way and as with everything else, the proof is in the pudding. But if you're willing/wanting to be intimate, it makes sense to me to do so and then watch the results. See how your spouse reacts and how you feel about it after the fact.

I know many couples whose physical relationship saved the day. Even when they couldn't talk, constantly fought, their lovemaking was the lifeline between them. Eventually, because their physical connection reminded them that beneath their problems, there was still a lot of love, they were able to work things out. I say, "stack the deck in your favor, if you can."

But not everyone feels comfortable with this solution, and that's okay. You have to feel in your heart that you are doing the right thing. If it feels wrong to you, don't do it. If it feels okay, comfortable or even exciting, give yourself permission to enjoy it.

One word of caution. If you've been intimate with your commitment-phobic spouse for a long time and nothing improves, it's time to rethink your actions. Your relationship may have become too comfortable. Perhaps s/he is taking things for granted. Time to consider a change.

Michele

[Jenna333]

Thanks for sharing that. He tearfully told me he actually had to restrain himself from becoming emotional during. It seems that he is very confused, but feels that this separation is the right thing to do. I did not initiate the sex, and I won't at all while we're apart. I have actually had to scoot away from him on the couch, etc, because he's been so flirty with me the past week. I'm not sure if I should oblige if he initiates again. I'm not as upset as I feared I would be after the fact. If there is a chance that it could get him to realize how much we have together, I don't see why I should see it as such a bad thing to do. Time will tell, I suppose. He may come over today to see the kids. I guess I will have to see how his behavior towards me is today.

I don't like the idea of being used simply because he's in the mood, but I could tell that it was not 'just' sex to him. I think his emotions surprised him.

[Jenna333]

Am I going about this the right way? I'm trying to implement 180s.

He came by this afternoon to take the kids to the park for a little less than an hour. He brought his laptop over to transfer some movies of mine onto the kids' laptop that he got them for Christmas. I didn't ask, he offered. I was lighthearted, smiling, not clingy in the slightest. As he was walking out of the door to take the kids to the park, he asked me if I felt awkward about last night. I said, "No, surprisingly I don't. I thought I would, but I don't," with a smile and a shrug. I asked him if he felt awkward about it and he smiled and said no. I turned back around to look at him a few seconds later and he was still staring at me, smiling at me like he used to. I was cooking enchiladas for dinner for the kids and I as he asked me that, btw. I never cooked as much as I should have while we were together. He made a comment about the kids being lucky to have that for dinner, and I offhandedly invited him to have some when they returned. He did, and he was very appreciative. We just really behaved as friends. It makes my heart sink a little (ok, a lot) to think that I'm only his friend right now, but I'd rather be his friend and feel hopeful that he could fall in love with me again, rather than trying to distance myself as much as possible and feeling devastated all the time.

I'm just wondering if I shouldn't be doing this. He seems to be getting the best of both worlds. I just don't feel like he'll miss the 'old' me. So I don't see how shutting myself in my room while he's here, or just not conversing with him much will help him to see how much he misses me. He may never decide to come back. I know this. I just can't accept it yet.

Last night when we really opened up to each other, I asked him if he'd let me go yet. He teared up while saying he can't yet.

[greenblue90]

Doing the math I take it you are in your mid to late twenties.

Me and my W are in the same age group, so believe when I say I know what you feel.

That being said you found your way here, and truly want to work on your M. That is commendable. The bulk of divorces come from our age group, but the average age of the DBer is 40 and up.

I speculate it's because most people our age are too rash at this point and too naive. Marriage is hard work, few people our age are up to it. Most just sign the papers.

Like you mentioned neither of you had previous relationships to screw up in, and learn from. That's why it's of paramount importance that you two learn from each other.

Along with DB I recommend the 5 love languages, and if you want to get more advanced i recommend Passionate marriage.

I think you and your boyfriend are in a good position.

Don't look at this as going back to the old relationship, but as starting a new one built on love, and an understanding that relationships are a LOT of hardwork.

For now work on making him feel loved, so that he gets a taste of what he is walking out on. Find out what his love languages are, and fulfill his needs.

If he comes back don't backslide make these changes permanent.

[Jenna333]

I'm 24 and he's 25.

We checked out the 5 love languages while together. He needs to feel respected and wanted. He is a big cuddler. I pushed him away often. I can't exactly cuddle him now, but he can see that I'm cooking more (not that I have a choice, but I WANT to do it), I'm laughing more and letting loose more often. While he was here the other night I was dancing around to music and laughing. We were also joking around, teasing each other. He looked at me and said he missed that side of me for so long. Well, she's back!

Right now he seems content for me to be a friend that he flirts with. I'm glad he isn't despising me and not attracted to me, but I worry he'll never want to be committed to me again. That's probably reason enough to implement more boundaries.