Doing the "Friends" Route Pt 2...

[Abbey]

Wee update...

Spent 3 afternoons together with daughter and H. Had a lovely time too.

H admitted last night again, that it's me he loves. He's still drawn to OW because of daughter only, but knows that he doesn't love her, only cares about her because she's the baby mama. He knows he has to break that tie but isn't sure how to do it. (Still feels that being nice to her is a way to get to see daughter.)

This was a result of a few days of H saying things about US buying a new smaller house together, getting the lawyer started on custody agreement, buying a bed... showing daughter HER room at OUR house. (WTF?...if you've made a decision, wouldn't let me in on this be helpful??)

I finally said, I'm a little confused here: You're saying things that on one hand, make it sound like we're going to be together.

He said: "well yes."

A discussion ensued about H feeling he needs to deal with OW his own way. I cautioned him that I do not believe one iota that she is going to want me to have anything to do with daughter. The only way you will get to see her is if you GET RID of me. He shook his head and said, I don't think so. I held fast, said, honestly, I don't think that being nice to her is going to help one bit. She wants to control your life and wants me out of it. Period.

H admitted OW wants to run him and her H... to get them to jump to her tune. I simply stated: Well, you're going to have to decide to get off that ship for yours and daughters sake.

One or two baby steps forward... I know, I know... there'll be slips.

My feelings about this are mixed, I know he has to see her for what she is. It's happening slowly, by his own admission... but I think until she does something TOTALLY nuts on him... this spin cycle is likely to go on.

Abs

[Abbey]

It's strange to realize that your H has the emotional maturity of a 6 year old. Very strange.

You speak to him as an adult, other's speak to him as an adult, then the next words out of his mouth are like he did not hear an effin' thing.

Truly strange.
Abs

[MynameisMZ]

RE: "....emotional maturity of a 6 year old." I KNOW! I was thinking myself this morning that I've known my H for so long and I know everything about him.....and yet the A just showed a very dark and immature side of him that I had no idea existed. I don't think he knew it existed either.

Had an interesting convo with someone at a party the other night. We were talking about someone in our community who was upwardly upstanding. I mean this guy had it all. Success, looks, business, kids, wife...But as a teen had been into drugs. He was sober for years and years. Then stress hit and he started drinking and drugging again. He lost everything and I do mean EVERY THING. The person I spoke to said something to the effect, "That's an example of your addiction doing push-ups while you think you are sober....they start using again and it comes back with a vengeance." I've been pondering this. It's a little scary. Unless they really do the work, it only goes underground. I'm now convinced of that.

[Abbey]

I agree MZ. Mine over the holidays, has told me that he's IN love with me, not the OW. We've had a couple of good days, and he's pushed the OW away. We'll see how long it lasts. She texted him last night with, I love you, I miss you. This morning,a call - daughter and I just want to say good morning.

He says, he's emotionally pushed her away. We'll see how long it lasts.

We had her for a day together where OW knew I was with her all day. And we're supposed to get her for one over night over the weekend,... lets see if she keeps up to her bargain, or she spends half the day texting and calling him, trying to break down his defenses.

He asked me to come with him to the lawyer. Which is a step forward, as is the comments that we are the only parents who are going to be a positive influence in daughters life. He points outs all the lies she told him in a 3 minute phone call. (where her daughter was to say goodnight, but SHE wanted to have the convo with him, not daughter.) My comment: You are going to have to set FIRM and STRICT boundaries with her, otherwise, she'll just think it's an invitation to "move on back in".

If he can't do that... then *shrug*... it'll be more merrigoround. The whole thing is just so f'g ridiculous. He KNOWS and acknowledges she's a nut case. But he's weak. Duh.

Abs

[Walking]

I

f he can't do that... then *shrug*... it'll be more merrigoround. The whole thing is just so f'g ridiculous. He KNOWS and acknowledges she's a nut case. But he's weak. Duh. (emphasis mine)

So why do you enable and engage in this destructive, unhealthy, abusive, craziness? I find this sitch very distressing from a child development and welfare perspective for that innocent little girl.

Have you had an opportunity to read any of the books around codependence that are often spoken about here? I really recommend you pick up a copy of Women who love too much by Robin Norwood.

Abbey - have you really asked yourself why you are tolerating being treated like this? Not only tolerating it - but being an active participant in this dysfunction that leaves you living in an open relationship and that child in an unstructured, informal, parenting situation that leaves her a vulnerable pawn. In my view, and given the seeming inability to make any appropriate decisions by any of the 4 adults in her life, she almost needs her own representative. All of you are so busy worrying about yourselves and who'll get whom in the final wash up the little girl is worth nothing in her own right - but as a prize. it makes me weep.

Please do some reading and get to know some of the amazing posters over in MLC. Also read some of Labug's posts in Newcomers. She's a woman of about your age, with a lot of the same control issues - and she's doing this amazing work to identify the things in her she needs to change, while she leaves her H swinging out in the wind. She's realised she can't change him - she can only change herself.

You have an opportunity to use this time, while your husband is trying to figure out his life, to have a real

Abbey - you don't have to do anything big to get off his crazy train. But you will not save your marriage if you stay on it. Please disengage from it.

One thing your posts scream out is your propensity to "tell" or "mother" your H. It's not unusual, but it's a big reason long term relationships fail. When you "reiterate" or "remind" or "put in his head" you are doing 2 things.

1. You are trying to manipulate him and the situation to get the outcome you want.
2. you are demonstrating that you don't trust him to make a decision for himself. That is hugely emasculating for a man and is probably one of the reasons your marriage was in a state for him to look for an affair in the first place.

Those are the things you need to be working on. Not all the drama about the little girl. H and her mother need to figure that out. They are her parents. It is none of your business. After he's made those decisions, that will hopefully be in the best interests of the child, you'll need to consider if you can live with what he's decided.

In the mean time - please use this time to have a good look at who you are and how you got here - and if this is really how you want to be.

Blessings, V

Especially me reiterating that WE are the best chance his daughter has at a happy ... HEALTHY family life.

I pressed a bit. (probably too much). Said I could see daughter going to a local private school and us being involved. He liked that. We talked about reading to her, and getting her interested in reading etc. Liked that too.

Talked about living arrangements... put it in his mind that he should have a secondary investment property.

[Walking]

sorry - that post looks confusing - and no edit feature.

I had a long list of quotes that demonstrated all the times that you "tell" him stuff etc (the mothering/controlling behaviour). A couple are at the bottom of last post - others fell out - and they were supposed to be in the body of the message - for context - but I hit submit before I'd finished organising it.

Sorry. : V

[Abbey]

V, H admits he has some weird weakness when it comes to the OW, and has asked what "might and might not" work with regards to breaking it off. (He wants me to come with him to pick up daughter because he just doesn't want the confrontation and the clutchy whinging behavior of OW in front of his daughter.) (There is other stuff that has happened in the last two days that I haven't posted about, but it was a very big indicator of why a lawyer is on his lips and why he wants me there with him.)

Understand too, that the two of us are in a business together as well as "friends". (He put his arm around me last night and said, so ... you STILL want to raise Daughter, together... because I can think of nothing better than raising her with my best and longest life long friend. He also then told me he`s in love with me for about the 3rd of 4th time in as many days). Anyhooo... We bounce off ideas and "tell" each other stuff all the time. It's just the nature of how we've always done things. Nothing emasculated where this part of our lives is concerned. (Sex starved before, yes... that for him was QUITE emasculating, as was the lack of touch or flirty interest). It flows the other way too, where in business, he's got 15 years more experience in our biz than I do. (You should have seen the fur fly when we bought another type of biz where I had the experience. THAT didn't work out so well.)

To illustrate the fact though in more real terms, that I'm not "telling him" anything.... today without any prompting from me or anyone... he simply told her straight out: After several months, it's clear that nothing has changed from 3 years ago. I won't live like you do, I can't live like you do, and we're not going to be a couple. I just have zero interest.

Uhm... as my T said, accentuate the positive. And so my comments: I think you said that wisely. He asked about something she said to him. My comment: You'll need to set those boundaries and STICK with them. (unsaid): OW clearly has a hard time with understanding no. (He calls her Jeckle and Hyde).

Dealing with who and what the OW is, isn't about parenting at all unfortunately. Borderline personality disorder, attachment issues, etc etc etc...

We`re getting there, I just know that he`s got a 50 50 chance of slipping once or twice before it holds. He might not... but his own words about "weird weakness" and not knowing "what" the attraction is to her - other than the emotions he first felt when he found out that they actually do share a daughter.

Abs

[Walking]

OK. But do yourself a favour and check out that other stuff on codependence and other women on this journey, particularly on the MLC Board etc (read Punkin - she's funny and has had an amazing journey of self discovery, and AntoniaB - smart and insightful).

I think we are sent these awful experiences to learn and develop as loving, mature human spirits ... might as well take the full course, hey?

[Abbey]

Yep Walking,... I'm always up for more info and learning

Funny that because this journey for me is somewhat, DB and yet in some ways not... I'm flying by the seat of my pants. My H actually rarely got "emotional" advice from me before this sitch... and so it's a 180 for both of us.

While we both are "fixers" and "do'ers", we both know when to back off. It's rather weird for me to realize just how some parts of his emotional puzzle have the pieces in upsidedown.

Abs

[Abbey]

Wee update: Hubs leans over twice in as many nights: I love you. This morning again, I love you.

He's gone so far as to keep talking about us getting a house in town together - as a couple. (with a double garage because he hates parking one of the vehicles out in the winter).

He made a comment/joke about open marriage and my response was: You got your double mulligan... it's either monogamy or nothing. He smiled, clasped my hand and said, I agree.

So there ya go. I still holding my breath, because I know what kind of effect OW has on him. But he's hung up on her, called her a name I can't mention in mixed company and, told her countless times, it's OVER and she still keeps telling him she loves him. Oye.

Anyhoo.. Me, my concern is that daughter has fun and is happy and safe while she's around me. OW came to the door, and handed over daughter into my arms today. This whole sitch is more than slightly surreal.

Abs