Like Two Sparrows in a Hurricane (1)

[ANS]

Hi MAL,

I think I remember you from way back (it was a long time ago!). I too left the boards, and, not sure why, but I dropped back in.

Unlike you, my sit hasn’t changed since I first came to DB. It hasn’t worked for me, but like you, I do believe in it anyway.

I think adinva has a point:

11/22 (Thursday - yesterday)
In my opinion, you've put yourself out there and made your case, and now you need to back off the pressure so he can explore the other relationship.

I don’t know if you’re actually putting pressure on him, but he seems to have a lot of feelings to sort out, so I’d kinda lay off the ILY and concentrate on being friends. It all starts with friendship, right?

Just my two cents.

[MAL]

So that is everything up until this morning.

My friends, family, and kids are telling me that the guy clearly has feelings for me, and they think he is a little confused. I don't know about all of that.

They told me to give it another month and then see how I feel.

It's going to send me a clear picture if his lady friend comes to visit for New Year's weekend. Even if she does, I am not sure I am ready to throw in the towel on him.

I had 4 months to think about this, and at least 2 months of time knowing how I felt about him. He has had about 6 weeks I think.

I know the guy loves me. For that, I have no doubt.

But I don't know if he is smart enough, or strong enough to get to the place where I already am. And I definitely don't want to wait months for him to get there.

At the same time, I don't want to have any regrets.

So I am trying this "buddy" thing right now.
Doing the "act as if" stuff.
Avoiding R talk.
Showing him how great we are together and who I am.
Showing him some new and great stuff he never saw before. As I've said, ever since I came back from Israel, this has been a period of enlightment for me. I know he sees it based on comments he has made.

After all the pain from the divore, my ex, and the OW, I don't want months and months of DB-type efforts. I am way beyond that now in my life.

Until now RC has never let me down - always there. Until now.

Yes, he is still there as my friend, but I would like him to figure this out on his own -- that there is more there than just a friendship.

I know I deserve that, for once in my life.

I do believe he is the guy for me. And it took me all these years to get there and be able to admit that openly to people. It doesn't mean he and I will be together. But it means I see it, own it, and will fight for it.

And when my mom tells me this is the guy, I am going to listen. She has always been right about that. She told me to go fight for him.

LOL, okay mom.

Now, how much fighting? I don't know.
How much waiting? Not sure.
Will I help the guy? Of course.
But I won't be able to be "his best buddy" forever - my heart is an open wound right now, and there are limitations.

It has been great to journal all of this so I can see the patterns. It has been helpful. It also proved to me that I am not crazy.

Feedback is welsome. Thanks!

[~ kd ~]

Hi MAL,

I just wanted to pop in quick and welcome you to the board.

I'd like to ask you to review KML's posts to you and also, Adinva also posted a response to you on the first page which you may have missed.

I understand the need you felt to post the details of everything in your sitch. Certainly value in that.

I wonder if it is possible for you to now post an executive summary of the details that might come in the form of:

+ here are some things that RC did that bothered me
+ here are some things that I did that may not have been productive
+ this is what I want
+ this is what I'm planning on doing

And in all of this, refer to the DB manual and GAL and 180 as you need and that could impact both yourself and your R with RC in a positive way.

Cheers!

[adinva]

Hi again. Can I just say, as one of the wordiest people on this forum myself, that you have a remarkable retention of detail?

I don't know if you noticed that I posted in the middle of your journals back there, but I had some questions for you. I want to add another.

When you were DBing before, did you ever get the message that other people's opinions are not always helpful or relevant? You're seeking out and absorbing other people to build up your opinion that you two are right for each other and should be together, and I think you might want to consider attaching less importance to what they say. You believe he's right for you. Why? You believe you're right for him. Why? Outside friends just want you to be happy and they'll say what they think will make you happy. If you broke up and were sad, the same people would be saying he wasn't right for you, move on. Listen to yourself and listen to him. Your desire for him right now looks like a snowball rolling down a mountain, gathering up the pinecones of friends' opinions to build up its momentum.

So if you get a chance, let me know if the questions I asked above sparked any thoughts. I may not have been gently wording them, and I hope you take them as food for thought rather than being judgmental.

[MAL]

Thanks adinva.

I left a lot out in what I was sharing which probably would have explained more about what happened in our R, things he has said. I have listened to him in some of the R talks. We talked about things from both sides.

Mostly we agreed that we had been becoming more like friends, and not meeting each other's needs. We did talk through some of it, but outside of a real R, we wouldn't know if we could work through it.

We admitted things we should have done differently, and we both talked about regrets. The talks were good for both of us, and real eye-openers.

But after that last one where I really laid things out there, I haven't talked like that with him anymore.

So I don't really know what he is feeling, wanting, or missing. When we talk, I do listen to what he says and we share a lot with each other. He shares things he is excited about, and terxts me out of the blue sometimes. But we do not talk about us.

I am being a good friend to him right now, and I know that. I hope that explains a little more. I don't mean to come across one-sided -- it's just all I haved to share.

I do want him to be happy, honestly I do. If this other person makes him happy, then that is great. Life will go on, and I will always have a great friend. It will hurt, but I know there is something else planned for me.

I'm just not sure that is all we are. And I don't want to screw up again, or have regrets later.

I think he is having a tough time right now, no doubt. And I pray for him every day.

I can also admit that the time we have had together has shown me some of the things that drove me nuts in our relationship. I am not wearing rose-colored glasses. But I know that the things that were good were really good. And that is worth working for.

I honestly didn't know he was talking to someone when I came to all these realizations. Sure, being rejected hurts, but it's not the reason I am back in this place. I have asked myself the same questions. It was a good reality check for me.

I like what you said about meeting him where he is, and letting him come to me. It should ease some pressure on him.

This morning is an example. I wasn't planning to contact him, but he texted me. So I responded to whatever he said. Still light-hearted.

[MAL]

As for 180's:
- I don't work as much. That stopped when I came back from Israel.

- I received a promotion earlier this year, which added a lot of pressure to me. One of the things that caused me to step back from RC. I felt like we were all over the place, and neither making the other a priority. Funny thing though, I have more responsibility, but I am working less. And I had one of the best years and performance reviews of my career.

- I make more time for friends.

- I attend church every Sunday, and I study the lesson. This was more for my spiritual growth and not because of RC though. It was more of a calling from God that got me back. And it’s not a hit/miss thing like it used to be.

- I now attend Bible Study on Wednesday nights.

- I joined the choir, something I always wanted to do because singing brings me joy, but I wasn’t able to commit to it because of work and college. I still need to finish college, but that is on hold until I get my son to college.

- The spiritual things are very important to him, and I know that. But it wasn’t the reason I got involved in those things again.

- I listen to RC when he talks about history, goofy songs, civil war re-enacting, and things that I used to tune out. It’s not the most exciting subject, but it’s important to him. So I make it a priority to listen. He doesn’t see the glazed over look anymore.

- I am back to karaoke again. I hadn’t been much in the past several months because there never seemed to be enough time.

- I sang a solo at church for the first time, something I always wanted to do but never had the nerve. I’ve been asked to sing again.

- I am working out, riding my bike, and getting in exercise on a regular basis. That was something I struggled to do before.

- Now if I get back into college, some of the activities will need to be limited, obviously. But I don’t think the regular attendance at church will change. It seems to have stuck with me.

- I keep getting comments from people that there is something different about me, like a light got turned on. I still think it started back when I went to Israel. Whatever it is, it shows.

-I take time for little things in life, like going down the slide at the beach. I laugh a lot more now too.

I know there are others, but that is a good list for now.

[ANS]

Hi MAL,

I think you're on the right track. It's definately not the time to throw in the towel!

When I met my W, we were friends for a few months before I figured out she was the one for me. Unfortunately, another guy asked her out hours before I did.

Well, I simply laid out my feelings to her and left it at that.

About a month later, we were dating, and we've been together for 32 years now.

It may not seem like much of an endorsement considering the state of our M, but y'know what?

I haven't given up on W now, nor will I ever.

But the moral of the story is... It all starts with friendship. I firmly believe that.

Do what comes naturally. Part of DB-ing is to not overthink things. You have a lot of encouragement from friends, family, DB-ers. It all sounds positive.

RC is most certainly confused. He thought it was all over, and he moved on. Now, he has discovered that it is NOT all over.

Who wouldn't be confused?

But confusion is a temporary state of mind. I'm sure he'll figure it out.

[MAL]

Hi Ellie, Sorry I missed your post from earlier. I am trying to respond to the questions now.

He was friends with the other person before but I didn't suspect anything. I really thought they were just friends. I think he got a little lonely after we broke up and there was an opportunity there. But knowing him and his character, I do not think anything was going on before.

He wasn't there for me sometimes, but it was because of other things he did, such as involvement with church activities, taking care of his dad and mom. Sometimes that did leave me feeling left out.

This is where we failed in communication. I sometimes felt like he should be able to figure it out. I know there were times when I expressed what I needed. So when he didn’t give it to me, I sort of gave up on him. He deserved more than that, and I should have kept the communication going.

With things in his life and my own life, we got caught up in a lot of other things and started taking each other for granted. We stopped communicating and saying what we wanted.

He has admitted the same in some of our recent R talks.

To answer the other question…
During the break, I had a lot of time to think about my life, not just today, but long-term. And when I think about what I want out of life, the things that last are what come to mind. A lot of the little things that drove me nuts about him were just that little. When I think about the dreams we both have, they are spot on. We have the same values too, like church and family. Although sometimes I didn’t always put church first. He accepted me anyway, just as I was. The guy loved me, no doubt, and I know he would have done anything for me. He just needed a little nudge sometimes, and I quit nudging.

I have a lot of regrets there.

[MAL]

The executive summary per Kaffe’s request:


+ here are some things that RC did that bothered me
He didn’t always realize when he neglected making time for me. I know how he felt about me, but it would have been nice for him to see that sometimes. But I am also to blame because I didn’t always tell him when it happened. Part of it was pride, and part of it was fear of being hurt again.

I like getting flowers. He would forget that I liked that.

Okay, this one is the biggest one I think.
I know that in his marriage they seemed to have a decent physical relationship. He didn’t go into details of course, but based on what he said, I can tell.

He is very old fashioned and religious when it comes to sexual things. I am somewhat, but not as much as he is. I know his late wife thought the same thing about him based on our conversations.

I was actually the one who initiated our first kiss. After that, we were fine. He would touch me, hold my hand, etc…, but he was never one for big sexual advances. We used to “make out” but when we started growing apart, that changed. He didn’t initiate. I tried, but we kind of lost that in our R.

I tried at first, but then gave up. After being on the DB boards for so long, I knew better than that.

I don’t know if I am HD in that area, but I’m definitely stronger in that area than he is. If we had worked harder, I think we could have overcome that.

This is probably the biggest thing that bothered me.


+ here are some things that I did that may not have been productive
When he didn’t meet my needs, I didn’t always tell him. I gave up on trying. I expected him to figure it all out. I don’t hink that is always the case, and sometimes I think it’s okay to give a nudge.

I worked too much.

Toward the last couple of months before we broke it off, I didn’t look forward to his evening phone calls as much. They became more of a bother. Sigh…

I didn’t attend church regularly. I believe that should be the center of any relationship, but other things got in the way, took my time, and sometimes Sunday was a good day for me to sleep in. I also had some health issues relating to the stress and working so much. So sometimes I would be sick.

+ this is what I want
I don’t know how to answer this one. Should I say what I want in a R? Or life? Or from RC?

+ this is what I'm planning on doing
I need to think about this one some more. I have really spent the past couple of days trying to get my head around what has been happening with us.

But for now, I can say:
I am going to do the things in life that bring me joy.
I am going to try to avoid contact with him unless he contacts me. I won’t see him for the next week and a half, so it’s good timing.
I will respond if he contacts me via text or phone. But I will continue to keep it light.
I will still go to the Rec Center twice a week. If he is there, great, but still lighthearted and as friends.

I am not sure how to behave on 1/1, assuming he brings his lady friend to church. Normally I would sit with him, but I know that is not appropriate. Would it be rude for me to sit somewhere else? It would be apparent what I am doing. I don’t know if she will be there, but I need a plan either way.

[MAL]

I don’t know if you’re actually putting pressure on him, but he seems to have a lot of feelings to sort out, so I’d kinda lay off the ILY and concentrate on being friends. It all starts with friendship, right?

I totally agree.