WAW told me she idoesn't want to be married.

[witz10]

Had a very vivid dream last night that my w and i got back together. She apologized and we made love. Woke up thinking for a split second it was real. Felt good maybe a xmas wish.

[witz10]

I understand what you are saying. I did text her and told her to look for another pair of shoes for him and that I had to go out and pick up a pair.
Her thing now a days is to not look more then one day ahead. So I honestly don't think she thought about the weather for today and her jacket. Luckily it was not too bad and I got her into the car and she was good.
There are times even when we were fine that my W just doesn't think outside the box and plan ahead too well, for the small things.

[witz10]

I do have everything I need even went out and bought extra clothes. She had asked me all this before I had them the first night. One thing I am is efficient when it comes to what I need to have for my kids.

[witz10]

[quote=witz10]I am going up for xmas morning for presents and breakfast, which I will help out with if she lets me.

stop with the "if she lets me". Just do it. Don't ask

and don't act like you expect to be rewarded. This sounds like a parental function she should not have to do ALL of by herself anyhow...imo

I understand what your saying and over the past few weeks I have stayed to help put groceries away or picked things up she wants to be independent and show she can do it. She won't let me help. She tells me not to do something. When I was still there I would occasionally do dishes in the sink for her. She is like her father and very bull headed at times.


[IF your w believes you will hold the affair (I'll assume it's an affair for the sake of discussion b/c I don't want to get bogged down in whether it's an EA or a PA or whatever...)
so if she believes you will hold it over her head like the Sword of Damacles
or throw it in her face every time you feel insecure or angry,
she won't come back.[/b] This is one reason it's SO important you Not appear resentful]

She knows I wouldn't hold it over her head. I don't hold grudges life is too short especially when you care so much for someone. Yes I will have some issues to be worked out with her in regards to intimacy. She has slept with OM. She didn't say it I asked her if there was anything else I needed to know when I confronted her and she told me not to ask any more questions. At which point I looked at her and said your right I know the answer so I won't ask.
When getting back together this will be the hard part. I know this will take time.

[I believe Many more WASs would come home if they thought they would be forgiven.] How do you tell them that you would forgive them though?
[I say 2 things to that. First, to HER the marriage was unfair for a LONG time...longer than YOU realize and]
Your right she and I should have spoken about this more then we did.

True to Afirca

[Lose the anger, at least in front of her.[/b] I know that is hard. Believe me...but it does help YOU and your family.]
I don't show any anger when in front of her. She shows it more to me. When the kids spill a drink or not listen then I calmly help out and take over. I have gotten more patient since this has happened, I see the difference.

[that is all future talk and still depends on HER....]
I feel if you can talk and still see a future with a person then it could happen.

I tried indoor rock climbing and was ok till I lost my footing and my shoulder popped.

I want to take a comedy course down at a comedy club in philly but it costs too much right now.

I have to look and see what courses or other things I can do that would interest me.

I also want to look into a comedy troop.

I have to figure out what I want to do. Sort of a bucket list.
One thing next summer a drop ride down the shore will be crossed off my to do list. I have gotten better with rides.

Thanks again
Happy holidays

[witz10]

let me ask you, has it been working thus far? If not, try something different. DB 101...[/color]
I really don't know if anything is working to be honest. I offer my help only because I don't know what she needs to be done. She asked for help with the teachers presents and my sons presents to us. I told her put it all in a box and drop it at sitters house I would take care of it all. Which she did and I did as well. No hitches. She asked I did.

This past week when she would tell me she was overwhelmed it just breaks me inside cause I know if I paid attention or did things in the past that this would not be like this and I would be with my family. Everyday this week I have asked her how she was doing and if there was anyway for me to help.

more "asking"...Man, this just does Not impress her...(or me). Don't wait for her to accept your offer or to invite you. Just DO things to help and expect nothing in return.
Again more asking cause she has told me in the past she needs to do this and no one else. After I emailed to see if I can help her with anything she wrote back "there is nothing to do I have to do it thats all there is to it. Then talk about gifts from her brother and SIL.
Its her list I don't know what is on it to start helping so I need to ask.
Last week when I brought pizza I got out plates utensils cut it up served her and kids cleaned up and just did. On the way home I stopped for milk and a paper. Again just did.
I have no expectations except a thanks thats all.

[She needs to SEE YOU BEING DIFFERENT, NOT TALKING ABOUT IT...
[/b]
hope this helps.]Yes this helps a lot. Whenever I am there or with her I will just do no more thinking.

[I know you are sincere but something's not clicking yet.]
Me man me get fire from rock(basically how I am thinking)

(((( )))
[/quote]

[25yearsmlc]

witz,

I believe you are trying hard. But some of your thought processes are of course, yours and you've had them a long time.

Changing them is not easy and it won't last unless you get very disciplined with it. Part of that is just mental..

The mental part is KNOWING that you want to change a thought pattern

and changing it is a big step

but

the harder steps are the next 6789300, wherein you KEEP AT IT and keep making those changes...

even without an obvious reward, b/c

even small changes, if done consistently, add up.

I think small changes and actions matter MORE than a grand gesture done

now and then. So do "the math" and realize that

consistent change + sufficient time = change SHE can believe in.


once you get there, and then once she gets there, you both move forward into the next phase of your r, whatever that is

But til then, she'll assume you are the same...and nothing will improve.

So keep at this change in how you see things...

Sorry if I'm nitpicking here but I see some areas getting glossed over or taken for granted when it comes to her,

or a bit of self congratulation where I'm not sure it'd due...

so I'm going to go ahead and...nit pick a bit.

Forgive me if it offends for it's not meant to...

I do have everything I need even went out and bought extra clothes.

this ^^^ is an "of course you do" statement, to me. Meaning, of course you have to have a set of "extra" clothes b/c there are two homes...

so it's not an "even went out" type of extraordinary thing. She is a single parent in her mind and so are you. None of these are "extras"...they are what is required in each place the child stays.


She had asked me all this before I had them the first night.

so if she had asked you, where's the surprise? Sounds as if she told you what you needed and you complied. Sounds like she planned and informed you... I'm confused...

One thing I am is efficient when it comes to what I need to have for my kids.

sounds good...is there a complaint in there? I'm just not clear; that's all.

[witz10]

Had another vivid dream again this morning. This time I got home kids were playing and I turned and loked at a brand new wall unit in the house. Very decorative with chinese designs on it. Looked really nice. W told me she picked up a few new pieces for the house. Then I realized we were in a house. I went outside and kids were playing in the yard and outr dog was running back and forth. We don't have a house or a dog. Again felt good when I woke up and thought about it.

[witz10]

25, First merry xmas eve or merry xmas pending on when you read this.

I really do appreciate your bluntness. I think I need it to sink in. Please feel free to give more examples. More info helps me understand and learn better.



What thought process are you speaking of?

[I think small changes and actions matter MORE than a grand gesture done now and then. So do "the math" and realize that
consistent change + sufficient time = change SHE can believe in.
I am trying to make these changes consistent and have done a decent job. I am not losing my patients wihth my son as much as I was over the past few years.
I realize what you said about just doing and not asking. So I am no longer asking to pick up milk. If she needs it and I hear this I will walk down and get it. I stopped doing this cause she wanted to be independent and learn what it was like to be a single parent.

[Sorry if I'm nitpicking here but I see some areas getting glossed over or taken for granted when it comes to her,

or a bit of self congratulation where I'm not sure it'd due...

so I'm going to go ahead and...nit pick a bit.

Forgive me if it offends for it's not meant to...Like I said before please your constructive critisism will help me down the line.

With regards to the clothes at first I took 2 days of extra clothes from my home. Then I went out and purchaased additional just in case or they wanted to wear something different. I did all this before she even asked. Along with new pillows, tooth brush, comb, soap etc.

She had asked me all this before I had them the first night. I just assumed she would know I took the things I would need. Plus I mentioned it to her.She is not listening to me at times.

I did all the over night planning on my own. I told her after thanksgiving I was going to do this. She told my neighbor that I never mentioned it to her.

One thing I am is efficient when it comes to what I need to have for my kids. [/quote]
[color:#FF0000]
sounds good...is there a complaint in there? Nope she has even told me I am a great father.

By the way some other GAL I am looking into. Helping at Philabundance food kitchen, Looking into Habitat for Humanity if they are in the Philly area also plan on getting back into skiing this year. Really miss it.

[witz10]

Had a wonderful day with my kids. Woke up at 7 got dressed and drove up to my condo. My W texted me take your time kids are still asleep. So I stopped at a dunkin donuts figure I would pick up some coffee. Nope they were not open cause they had some technical problems. So wentup walked in and everyone is asleep. I put presents down and sat down and relaxed. Heard my son wake up and whisper to my daughter. Then they came out and saw me and presents. Fun morning. D loved her cars toys S loved his knex amusement park rides. W liked her sweaters and rainbow socks from kids. Also liked the frame with pics inside.
She thought about what she got me from kids. 2 cds of Rodrigo y Gabriella. I never mentioned to her but posted a video on facebook and have listened too on spotify, muppet tshirt and animal muppet stuffed animal also a gift card for movies.
She put thought into this.
I really didn't try as hard but for good reason.
Made breakfast my W made blueberry muffins and bacon. I cleaned up dishes then made the eggs up and got kids breakfast. Sat down talked for a while neighbor came over spoke with him. Finished the dishes and cleaned counter and table.
W needed help with S mp3 player went in and figured out how to convert the music showed her how to do it for next time.
Took out trash, took presents to the car kids to in laws and met W there she went to pick up grandmother.
Had fun at In laws S got his first lionel train set my D got a bunch of art supplies and more cars toys. I was in the basement with them for a few hours today sporadically. Between talking with family and helping out. Just couldn't sit still. W and I were getting along great talking and laughing. Sat next to each other at dinner, just a great day. Then it all ended when she told me her dad was helping her take stuff home. Fine that killed me. I know I don't live there, but I was looking fwd to putting my kids to sleep.
FIL shook my hand said talk with me later, MIL gave me a very big hug and said she was happy I joined them for the holiday.
Love my in laws and they love me. Still a sad ending to a very happy day.

But made some changes that maybe were noticed I am not sure. Took charge in the kitchen and with kids today. W didn't tell me to do things I just did them. Offered up help at in laws and had some good conversations with my W's grandparents.
In laws still have no idea what she is doing and what is going on. Yet again not my place to say anything.
So since W gave me a gift card to movies should I ask her to go? nah didn't think so

[verycrazy]

Hi, witz, sounds like you had a great time yesterday. It also sounds like you did really good with taking charge when you needed to. All in all, good for you.

I have to tell you, last night you came to mind when my IL's were over. When we handed out gifts, BIL got H and me a set of dvds, and guess what one of them was? The Butterfly effect!! I was like are you kidding me?! Weird, huh?

Hope you have more good days during the holidays!

vc