Separated But Living Under the Same Roof

[sandi2]

I have said that it is for me and the betterment of our family. Should I drop any comment regarding the second part?

I would say no.

is there anything other than continuing to make changes and GAL that I can be doing to enourage her to keep an open heart to the R/M and not bolt?

You may not understand what I'm going to say, but here goes. To look for the WAW to have an "open heart" is wishful thinking, IMHO. The WAW package is setting on a foundation of her having a closed heart to you. You cannot say anything to "encourage" her to open her heart. She will fight anyone who tries to change her mind about it. Therefore, it will be best for you to not entertain any thoughts around that subject.

The R continues to be up and down. Two days ago, my W invited me to join her and the kids in looking at Christmas lights. It was a short, fun trip. I took it as a positive. Later the same night, however, W brought up Christmas and said that spending several days together "as a family" felt "forced" and "awkward" because "of the situation between us" and that she feels "trapped" in the house. W said we don't talk about things. I said that I thought that is what she wanted. She said that is what she wants. W then said that I can do whatever I want but she has to take care of the kids. (This statement is totally false

She is "up & down". What she said she wanted has not brought about the feelings she previously thought would come. My suggestion is to pull back a little when she "invites" you for a family type event. Remember to have your schedule full and you can tell her that you had made previous plans. She needs to see that she can't have it both ways. She is wanting to be free, but she still wants the benifits of family time.

If I may ask, at what point (I know it is not a precise thing) does the WAW want to engage the LBH in a conversation about the state of the R/M? (Meaninng both the present and the future.) Perhaps a better way to ask it is this: if a WAW is wrestling with the idea that she may want to consider giving her H/M another chance, how does that diaolgue get created and what role, if any, does the LBH play in the conversation?

Okay, I see right through your LBH fixer ways. If this conversation were to ever come about....it would not be through you. If she decides to really give you or the M another chance.....you must let her do the approaching and the talking, otherwise, she will feel pressured by you. So, say nothing!

The less you say about the R/M, the better. And, until you let go of all your idea's of saying something to change how she feels.....it won't get better.

The best thing a man can do (IMO) to cause the WAW to wrestle with her decisions, is for him to be disinterested in her. She sees him moving on, quite happily, and totally over her. When this entire thing has come around to bite her in the a$$, then she'll see the big mistake she's made. But as long as she sees life without you being better than life with you, she won't desire to change her decisions.

but is there ever a time when he can say something to attempt to get a WAW to focus on his changes or the improvements in the R/M?

No! B/c if you have to point out your changes or how hard you're working, then you've automatically cancelled any chance of having the effect you desire.

[2thepoint]

Sandi's advice is spot on and applies to any LBS who may be lurking and reading this post. So pay attention LBS's!!! This is golden information that you should hang on to.

[Crimson]

You may not understand what I'm going to say, but here goes. To look for the WAW to have an "open heart" is wishful thinking, IMHO. The WAW package is setting on a foundation of her having a closed heart to you. You cannot say anything to "encourage" her to open her heart. She will fight anyone who tries to change her mind about it. Therefore, it will be best for you to not entertain any thoughts around that subject.

What she said she wanted has not brought about the feelings she previously thought would come. My suggestion is to pull back a little when she "invites" you for a family type event.

The best thing a man can do (IMO) to cause the WAW to wrestle with her decisions, is for him to be [b]disinterested in her. She sees him moving on, quite happily, and totally over her. When this entire thing has come around to bite her in the a$$, then she'll see the big mistake she's made. But as long as she sees life without you being better than life with you, she won't desire to change her decisions.

Sandi -

There are times that I honestly think you have been talking to my W. She really did get sh*tty with anyone that tried to change her mind. Her heart is closed to me - for now. I guess I am hopeful.

You have really helped me better understand where my wife is at the moment. Though I will say that acting disinterested is terrifying because I feel that she WANTS me to be disinterested and just leave her alone. Regardless, you are an awesome resource for us LBHs.

Crimson

[Rick1963]

Crimson I agree with you abut the acting disinterested and your thought that that is what they want. I think the LBS can not act it but instead trully not be interested. The way I see it is that our WAS have divorced us and we must do the same. They are not worth more than we are. You keep those changes coming and see what happens.

[workinghardguy]

Crimson... she does want you to be disinterested, and if you remember part of this is loving our spouse they way they want to be loved, not how we want to love them.

She wants you to be disinterested and separate... so be that. If she wants you to be interested she'll tell you. My W makes it clear when she wants me to be interested, and my biggest weakness is giving in to that too readily.

I can't remember if you are living apart or together... if you're still together I empathize with you. It's doubly tough to disengage and be disinterested when you see them as soon as you roll out of bed.

[workinghardguy]

W brought up Christmas and said that spending several days together "as a family" felt "forced" and "awkward" because "of the situation between us" and that she feels "trapped" in the house.

James... if it makes you feel any better, I would say you're about at that point in this board game. But seriously... my W was saying the same exact thing (and I mean EXACT) at about the same point in time in our sitch. I remember thinking, trapped? Seriously? You're out partying all the damn time... I don't think "trapped" means what you think it means. And it got pretty bad and dark there in our house for a while. I felt helpless and watched her hurt and decline.

What helped in my house was my accepting of her having left the R. It was about that time that some post, I believe one of Sandi's, helped me realize that my W wasn't in the process of leaving that R...

She had already left!

So I was living moment by moment trying not to do something that would cause her to quit our marriage. I can only imagine this was excruciating to watch on her end as well as bizarre. It must have been so clear that I was trying to keep her in our marriage when all she wanted to be was out.

So then I got it... she's check out, done, gone, hasta la vista. And then things got better. Not better in the "yay! we're reconciling" better, but the dark clouds largely lifted. We can talk again. We can be in the same room, share dinner, and generally be around one another. If something she is doing bothers me I tell her, and vice versa. When she starts in on the dropping of the hints that she still wants a divorce I find a way to politely remind her that I'm quite aware of her desires and that I accept them, so she can stop now. And she does.

It's not perfect and it still suxx a lot... but it's better than the constant quiet battles we were having.

[sandi2]

Though I will say that acting disinterested is terrifying because I feel that she WANTS me to be disinterested and just leave her alone.

I think I can say the same thing to most everyone dealing with a WAW. Right now the WAW really wants you to just leave her alone. To be very blunt, she's just sick of you. Everything you try to do goes sour b/c she is so turned off to the LBH of any pursuitstoward her, or resistanceto what she wants. She's so fed up with him and this M and wants to be free of it until she thinks she doesn't want him to be interested in her ever again. Now listen guys, b/c I think this may be what some miss. She desperately wants to be free to the point of convincing herself she doesn't care if you M somebody else. Do you see that? It's not that she really wants you to fall in love with another woman......it's that she wants to be free! That's why she's fights you so hard when you put up any resistance. That's why she gets colder if you pursue.

Here's the weird thing about most females, once she begins to feel free of you trying to change her mind, and she doesn't feel hounded by your pursuit, she begins to relax a little and enjoy her new freedom. So, if she sees that you are not only through with resisting what she's asked from you, and she sees you are through with pursuing her, she can begin to see why you aren't doing it any longer. If it's b/c you've gave up and are a beaten man, then she feels sorry...but after all, yada, yada. However, if she doesn't see a man with a broken heart for her.....and she sees a man who seems to be doing quite nicely without her.....and in fact, he doesn't seem the slightest bit interested in what she has to say or what she does.....well, that's different! (And note that disinterest is not the same as bad behavior.)

That's usually when a lot of WAW's will try something to see if their LBH is still carrying a torch. The mistake many men make is showing her that torch still has a flame. B/c once she knows she can still cause that flame to rise, she'll be on her way again. That's why the LBH has to make her work really, really hard to get him back.

Now, you won't see it worded like this in the DR book. This is my wording. I don't think it's off the DB trail, but I've said it a bit harder or bolder, perhaps. It really is after the LRT.

The first thing Michele teaches is to detach. But that is the hardest thing for the LBS to do. If the WAS has really lost all concern whatsoever for the LBS, then they won't care how much the LBS moves on, and neither will they be curious about anything the LBS does or feels any longer.

[Crimson]

Sorry to hijack this post, James - but Sandi, that is an awesome peek into the mind of the WAS. Again, that sounds EXACTLY like my W. Minus the part where you determine what she sees when you have let go and "moved on" - I have no idea ghow she feels about that. Hell, few of us LBS do.

Thank you for posting. I've actually copy/pasted into an e-mail so I can re-read.

Crimson

[JamesG]

Sandi,

Thank you. I am grateful for your perspective. This is exactly the kick in the pants I needed. ("LBH fixer ways," indeed!) I, incorrectly, thought that in addition to making changes I could speak some "magic words" that would open a dialogue about the R/M. I am learning the lesson you are teaching. Each of the last two days I have talked myself out of saying something about the R/M and instead said nothing. Interestingly, my W thanked me last night for giving her space. In the past I might have tried to use the remark as an invitation but, instead, I just said no problem and left it at that.

Great insight on the open/closed heart. I needed to hear that.

As strange as it sounds, I am working to be more disinterested.

My W continues to be very interested in my (potential) new work opportunity. She does not press the point but she asks and TMs about any news. She asks about the interview process and my feelings about my chances of landing the position. I am very positive about my chances. An announcement is expected any time. We have struggled financially in the past and that has been a major issue for her and this opportunity would reduce the financial pressure. I suppose one could interpret her interest positively or negatively. I choose to be positive about it.

[JamesG]

WHG, thank you. Yes, my W has "already left!" I appreciate you writing that. I needed to see that. As we are living under the same roof, there are times when it seems like we are together but, clearly, we are no where near together. Although I am working hard to DB, there are times when I feel as if there is something I can do for her that will cause her to re-engage in the R/M. In fact, I must remind myself repeatedly that the only person I control is me and the only actions I can control are mine. Admittedly, it's a learning process. I am grateful for your insights.